Holocaust Revisionism vs. Flat-Earth Theory

[Stubble]

The census figures clearly show 6 million murder victims. This is evidence of murder. Right?

So cough up Confused Jew. Your census figures must show 4 million murders in Auschwitz if they are taken in the 4 decades post war.

4 million Auschwitz victims CJ, along with 2 million more in the other camps + shootings + ghettos. You obviously know best, and it's so blatantly clear to you. Tick tock. You don't want this to take TWO days, do you?

You're forgetting, Majdanek.

[borjastick]

The 6m figure was always just for laughs and massive sympathy. If you look at the Wannsee conference minutes you can see how they arrived at that figure but then again 6m jews in peril was the cry for over 100 years prior to the 'holocaust'. It's a totemic figure with zero basis in truth. Once that figure stuck they loved it because they could forever more claim it to have been the worst atrocity in history bla bla bla. It helps them with cover for atrocities such as is going on in Gaza. Let them criticise us for slaughtering the Palestinians and we'll throw the holocaust and its 6m dead back in their faces.

[ConfusedJew]

This is pathetic.

I'm not getting anything here.

This is open ended research. Why did the census counts drop by 6 million? Why using other independent methods did people get to about 6 million?

The best answer that I've heard is that they resettled in the Soviet Union which is a terrible answer because it's obviously not true. But at least it was an answer.

They must not actually believe what they are saying.

Because the stats are bogus.

Jews were using the six million number before the war was even over. It is a demonstrably false number.

This doesn't make any sense. The census numbers were independently generated from any war time report.

Also just because a number was thrown out there during the war doesn't make it necessarily wrong.

These are basic logical fallacies.

Why do you think the stats are bogus. Some of you have gone to great lengths to steal samples from the concentration camps to do extensive, albeit biased, analysis on the forensic chemical components of the gas chambers.

But there's nothing that comes close to debunking these census reports which are aligned with many other independent methods of calculating causalities.

[ConfusedJew]

There apparently credible documented cases of infants being murdered by being thrown out of windows during ghetto liquidations.

Oh, really. And skewered on rifle bayonets?

Well then produce an “apparently” credible reference for one.

Don’t just uncritically believe like some brain-dead ‘believer’. Do some “actual” critical “research”.

BOTTOM LINE:
This holyH ‘survivor’ NEVER witnessed that. He was repeating a ‘story’ AS IF he’d witnessed it to impressionable school kids. If YOU can’t understand the implications of that system of historiography then you are as impervious to reason as the most dimwitted, gullible flat-earther.

Is he only allowed to talk about things that he personally saw?

The way you are thinking about this is pretty wacky.

[Archie]

This is pathetic.

I'm not getting anything here.

This is open ended research. Why did the census counts drop by 6 million? Why using other independent methods did people get to about 6 million?

The best answer that I've heard is that they resettled in the Soviet Union which is a terrible answer because it's obviously not true. But at least it was an answer.

They must not actually believe what they are saying.

Because the stats are bogus.

Jews were using the six million number before the war was even over. It is a demonstrably false number.

This doesn't make any sense. The census numbers were independently generated from any war time report.

Also just because a number was thrown out there during the war doesn't make it necessarily wrong.

These are basic logical fallacies.

Why do you think the stats are bogus. Some of you have gone to great lengths to steal samples from the concentration camps to do extensive, albeit biased, analysis on the forensic chemical components of the gas chambers.

But there's nothing that comes close to debunking these census reports which are aligned with many other independent methods of calculating causalities.

It is indisputable that the number was used prematurely. They were saying six million in 1944 and they are still saying it in 2025. This strongly suggests the origin of the number is based on legend rather than any rigorous accounting. The accounting is post hoc.

"Also just because a number was thrown out there during the war doesn't make it necessarily wrong."

Yeah, it does. Sure, there is some microscopic probability that Zionist activists "guessed" the correct number in their propaganda, but Occam's razor says the number is simply a legend. You are not being objective if you say the premature usage is meaningless.

Early claims that six million Jews had been killed
viewtopic.php?p=11432&#p11432

On the unreliability of the census figures see here (where I quote from Jewish sources admitting the opposite)
https://codohforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=8332&#p8332
https://codohforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=8281&#p8281

[Wahrheitssucher]

…please ignore…

[Nessie]

The census figures clearly show 6 million murder victims. This is evidence of murder. Right?

So cough up Confused Jew. Your census figures must show 4 million murders in Auschwitz if they are taken in the 4 decades post war.

4 million Auschwitz victims CJ, along with 2 million more in the other camps + shootings + ghettos. You obviously know best, and it's so blatantly clear to you. Tick tock. You don't want this to take TWO days, do you?

Just to show you how unreasonable your demand is, I asked you to name the millions of Jews who survived WWII, which would prove millions were not killed. How many days will that take you?

[HansHill]

On the unreliability of the census figures see here (where I quote from Jewish sources admitting the opposite)
https://codohforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=8332&#p8332
https://codohforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=8281&#p8281

It's so disgusting to read two excellent posts by Archie penned back in May, be completely ignored by Confused Jew, replied to with AI Slop, then he comes here 4 months later and sleepwalks into the idea that he has census data for every murdered Jew.

[Nessie]

....
Jews were using the six million number before the war was even over. It is a demonstrably false number.

That was often in relation to fear of threat from the Soviets, not the Nazis, and you are ignoring that 4 and 5 million were also used before the war. For example;

https://www.google.com/search?q=%225%2C ... -wiz-books

The origin of 6 million as the WWII death toll, was Wilhelm Hoettl, in 1945;

https://nuremberg.law.harvard.edu/docum ... ?mode=text

"Approximately four million Jews had been killed in the various extermination camps while an additional two million met death in other ways, the major part of which were shot by operational squads of the Security Police during the campaign against Russia."

[Wahrheitssucher]

I'm not getting anything here.

This doesn't make any sense.

…These are basic logical fallacies...

IGNORANT DELUSION 1:
CJ erroneously believes there were “tens of thousands” of credible eye-witness to mass-gassings.
Yet he/she hasn’t named a single one. Not even ONE!!!

IGNORANT DELUSION 2:
CJ erroneously believes there have to be either a.) 6 million “murdered” jews OR b.) 6 million “missing” jews that revisionists have to locate.
He/she is unaware that revisionists accept a great many jews DEFINITELY died from disease and hardship in camps and ghettoes, plus were killed by bullets during Operation Barbarossa as partisans and their supporters, so are not “missing”.

IGNORANT DELUSION 3:
CJ erroneously believes that revisionists are arguing “the holocaust didn’t happen” and “didn’t exist”.
No amount of explanation and correction has any effect on him/her.

IGNORANT DELUSION 4:
CJ erroneously believes that going to a holocaust museum is doing “field research”.

IGNORANT DELUSION 5:
CJ erroneously believes that merely “talking to a holocaust survivor” and “visiting a camp” constitutes “actual research”.
Two of my children and their school friends aged 13 yrs were strongly encouraged by corrupt ‘education’ curricula to do both and they naively did so.
Only a brainwashed ignoramus would consider that these teenage children have done “actual research”.

IGNORANT DELUSION 6:
CJ erroneously believes that the censored and programmed-to-protect-the-myth Artificial Intelligence can accurately summarise the debated details for him/her. He/she thinks accepting Ai misinformation unquestioningly is an adequate way to “research” and understand the intricacies of revisionist research and arguments.

IGNORANT DELUSION 7:
CJ erroneously believes that because he/she has relatives who perished during WW2, that is proof they were ‘holocausted (gassed?) in the allegedly planned attempt to murder ALL jews.

IGNORANT DELUSION 8:
CJ erroneously believes that he/she has no need to read any books, files, articles or archive material that revisionists present to support their understanding, because he/she is jewish and has relatives who perished during WW2.

IGNORANT DELUSION 9:
CJ erroneously believes that he/she is “obviously the opposite of a retard”, i.e. a genius.
Demonstrating that CJ is unfortunately a sufferer of Dunning-Kruger syndrome.

CONCLUSION:
CJ is a person who is impervious to reason.
CJ is a holyH true-believer with a strong emotional attachment to an understanding of the jewish experience during WW2 that is firmly based on stubborn and wilful ignorance.

[Callafangers]

Wrong, it is the other way around. It is so-called revisionists who do not know how to research, primarily due to their lack of training. The few with training, who support the commonly titled Holocaust denial and promote it themselves, do so because despite their training, they have fallen into a conspiracy rabbit hole and for the denial agenda. Just because someone is trained to investigate, does not therefore mean they will use that training correctly.

You preach about training and yet it seems to do you (and anyone else) no favors. Gee, I wonder what extreme religious leaders would say about why it is you don't follow or lead in their cult... I'm willing to bet they'll point out your "lack of training".

The fact of the Holocaust industry and ideologues censoring and silencing their opposition slams in the face of your claim to its intellectual or academic rigor or authority. It's really that simple, open and shut. Good luck explaining the 'pristine authority' of your thought leaders while acknowledging this embarrassing fact alone.

If some at your work, arrives with no training and then tells you that you are all doing it wrong and they know right, what is your attitude towards them? You would in effect, shut them down. If some at your work, who has the training, but then decides that the training is all wrong and you were now mistaken, what would you do? You would in effect shut them down.

Whether it is you, or Germar Rudolf, unless you can prove that the normal method of gathering evidence to establish a chronology of events, is wrong and that your method of doubting the evidence and failing to prove what did happen, is right, then you will both be in effect, shut down.

Nessie, you didn't really respond to one of my points above, highlighted in green for easier reading. Please try again.

Is this embarrassing, discrediting condition of 'Holocaust' scholarship/academia allowable because it 'protects the memory of victims'?

[Archie]

....
Jews were using the six million number before the war was even over. It is a demonstrably false number.

That was often in relation to fear of threat from the Soviets, not the Nazis, and you are ignoring that 4 and 5 million were also used before the war. For example;

https://www.google.com/search?q=%225%2C ... -wiz-books

The origin of 6 million as the WWII death toll, was Wilhelm Hoettl, in 1945;

https://nuremberg.law.harvard.edu/docum ... ?mode=text

"Approximately four million Jews had been killed in the various extermination camps while an additional two million met death in other ways, the major part of which were shot by operational squads of the Security Police during the campaign against Russia."

Read the link, idiot.
viewtopic.php?p=11432&#p11432

And lol at you defending Hoettl as legitimate source.

[ConfusedJew]

In is indisputable that the number was used prematurely. They were saying six million in 1944 and they are still saying it in 2025. This strongly suggests the origin of the number is based on legend rather than any rigorous accounting. The accounting is post hoc.

"Also just because a number was thrown out there during the war doesn't make it necessarily wrong."

Yeah, it does. Sure, there is some microscopic probability that Zionist activists "guessed" the correct number in their propaganda, but Occam's razor says the number is simply a legend. You are not being objective if you say the premature usage is meaningless.

Early claims that six million Jews had been killed
viewtopic.php?p=11432&#p11432

On the unreliability of the census figures see here (where I quote from Jewish sources admitting the opposite)
https://codohforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=8332&#p8332
https://codohforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=8281&#p8281

This shows how bad your reasoning skills are because census reports have nothing to do with a war time estimate. Zero. They are mathematical and statistical estimates. Nobody is relying on some number that was mentioned during the war. I'm sure a ton of other wrong estimates were thrown out as well. FUGGETABOUTIT!

The consensus is that there were roughly ~16.6 million Jews worldwide in 1939, ~9.5 million in Europe based on many sources (all of which have to be wrong in order for you to be right which is extremely unlikely). This comes from pre-war censuses in Poland, Germany, Czechoslovakia, Hungary, France, etc.; community registries; neutral demographic studies (e.g., Arthur Ruppin, American Jewish Committee). Statistical estimates will have a margin of error but it won't be in the millions. The margin of error for this kind of census will be significantly less than a million. I don't think I have seen any statistical literacy among people on here.

By 1945–1950, Jewish population surveys show ~11 million worldwide. This looks at national censuses (U.S., USSR, UK, Israel after 1948), refugee organization records, Jewish community reports. The drop of ~5.5–6 million between 1939 and 1945 is consistent across all independent counts. Migration does not account for anywhere near this decline. Even with emigration to the U.S., Palestine, and Latin America, the numbers are still missing millions of people.

The Korherr Report (1943), commissioned by Himmler, explicitly states that millions of Jews had “disappeared” from Europe due to “special treatment”. They were sent to the camps but then why didn't the allies find millions of Jews there when the camps were liberated? What about the Einsatzgruppen reports where mass shootings in the USSR were tallied and sent back to Berlin, with hundreds of thousands killed in just months. These are Nazi records — not “Jewish sources” or “Communist propaganda.” Where did all the Jews go who were dealt with in the Einsatzgruppen reports?

Jewish communities across Eastern Europe were annihilated. Town after town that had tens of thousands of Jews in 1939 had none left by 1945 including those where my family lived. Survivor testimonies, Red Cross reports, and Allied liberation records confirm the destruction. Where did all of these people relocate? Did they stick together? Did they disperse? They clearly didn't go back home? They didn't leave Europe because we have a good idea how many people left Europe and it wasn't close.

You claim that Britannica’s older estimates “don’t add up” and imply Jews couldn’t have grown from 6 million in 1880 to 16 million by 1939. Jewish fertility rates in Eastern Europe were in fact very high (average 6–7 children per woman in the 19th century). Combined with declining infant mortality, this explains the rapid population growth. This impression reveals so much ignorance and how you don't even think for yourself and just parrot other deniers.

In that other link, you quote a report from 1941 which is deep in the middle of the war when it was quite literally impossible to do a broad census. His point was not “we can’t know at all,” but that precision was lacking during the war years due to disrupted census methods and differing definitions of “Jew.” Literally, I don't think you have come up with any of your own thoughts. Later scholarship had access to Nazi records, Allied records, postwar censuses, and refugee registries that Kohn did not have.

Chaos after the war made immediate postwar counts difficult which is obvious. Millions of displaced persons, destroyed communities, and border changes created challenges. This is why Jewish population reconstruction doesn’t rely only on a single chaotic 1945 “census”. Historians track country by country: what census/community records existed before 1939, how many were deported/killed in camps or mass shootings (from Nazi records), how many emigrated, and how many survivors appeared in 1945–50 censuses. By 1950, censuses in the U.S., Israel, USSR, France, UK, and Latin America stabilized the global Jewish count (~11 million).

Gerald Reitlinger (1953) was one of the first major Holocaust historians. He himself estimated between 4.2 and 5.7 million Jews killed — which is why deniers love quoting him. But they ignore that even Reitlinger said millions were murdered and that “the total number of Jewish victims was at least 4 million and may well have been 6 million.”

There is no anchoring. That argument shows a complete lack of insight into how demography works. Professional demographic studies use Nazi documentation (deportation lists, camp statistics, Einsatzgruppen reports, Korherr Report), allied and Red Cross reports from liberated areas, survivor registries and censuses (U.S., Israel, USSR, etc.), community reconstructions (e.g., Yizkor books for annihilated shtetls). This triangulation produces a consistent picture across independent sources. It’s not just “pre-war number minus post-war number.” I can walk you through this process in more detail but I don't think you would understand it based on the types of comments that you are making.

All serious scholarship, including Reitlinger’s (which you cite), concludes that millions — not hundreds of thousands — of Jews were killed. The convergence of estimates (Reitlinger 4–6m, Hilberg ~5.1m, Dawidowicz ~5.9m, modern consensus ~5.7–6m) strengthens the reliability.

[HansHill]

You claim that Britannica’s older estimates “don’t add up” and imply Jews couldn’t have grown from 6 million in 1880 to 16 million by 1939. Jewish fertility rates in Eastern Europe were in fact very high (average 6–7 children per woman in the 19th century). Combined with declining infant mortality, this explains the rapid population growth. This impression reveals so much ignorance and how you don't even think for yourself and just parrot other deniers.

This is so stupid: you are very obviously just kicking your rhetorical can from one point to the next, to show whatever you need at whatever argument you are making.

If Jews really had such a high reproduction rate (on the order of 1.7% per year which is considered very high to begin with), how do you square this with all of your other genocides, pogroms, exterminations and holocausts that you were supposedly facing at this exact period?

The New York Times reports, in this "booming period" alone, Jews were:

– “all in a state of political bondage” (1889)
– facing “renewed massacres” and “systematic and murderous extermination” (1906)
– “economically exhausted” (1911)
– “subjected to every manner of sorrow and suffering” (1915)
– “reduced to unbelievable poverty” (1919)
– facing “horrifying conditions of famine, disease and death” (1920)
– facing a global “war of extinction” (1932)
– “slowly dying of starvation, all hope gone” (1938)

So were you all being exterminated and pogrommed? Or not? Or were these simply political contrivances?

[ConfusedJew]

Pogroms aren't genocide. Pogroms in the Russian Empire, discrimination, and expulsions were devastating locally, but did not wipe out the entire Jewish population.

Fertility rates were indeed high in Eastern Europe. Jewish families often had 6–7 children in the 19th century. While infant and child mortality was also high, improvements in sanitation and medicine meant more children survived into adulthood, fueling rapid growth. A 1.5–1.7% annual growth rate is historically realistic. Many European populations in this period experienced similarly high growth rates.

By 1939, there were about 16–17 million Jews worldwide. This figure is consistent with census data across multiple countries (Poland, USSR, USA, Germany, etc.), and not just with Jewish or “Britannica” sources.

In the general population of Europe in the 1800s, women often had 5–7 children on average. By the late 1800s, Western Europe began the “demographic transition” where fertility dropped to 3–4 children per woman in countries like France, Germany, and England. However, in Eastern & Southern Europe the fertility rate stayed higher, with 5–6 children per woman until early 20th century.

This stuff is basic math and common sense. If you want to call that stupid, that's more a reflection of your judgment.