The Kola Study - An Own Goal by Team Holocaust

[Nazgul]

Witnesses from outside the camps reported months of burning and a stench. Aerial photos from 1943, show large areas of disturbed ground.

Not Marian Olszuk, the only photo of Treblinka was by the stationmaster after the revolt. Produce the aerial pics please. As Treblinka was bombed by the Russians one should expect disturbed ground.

[Nessie]

Witnesses from outside the camps reported months of burning and a stench. Aerial photos from 1943, show large areas of disturbed ground.

Not Marian Olszuk,

http://www.whale.to/b/treblinka2.html

"Now and then, he related, a ghastly stench emanated from the camp."

the only photo of Treblinka was by the stationmaster after the revolt. Produce the aerial pics please. As Treblinka was bombed by the Russians one should expect disturbed ground.

Typo on my part, the aerial photo, that you know about, is from 1944, before the Soviets arrived.

[Nazgul]

"Now and then, he related, a ghastly stench emanated from the camp."

Could be latrines. Perhaps the inmates eat too many beans.



The disturbed area is in fact the reception area, a small graveyard and a site of execution.

[TlsMS93]

"Now and then, he related, a ghastly stench emanated from the camp."

Could be latrines. Perhaps the inmates eat too many beans.



The disturbed area is in fact the reception area, a small graveyard and a site of execution.

That was good, now the guy is a corpse burning sniffer?

[Keen]

Corpses liquifying also mean less space is wasted.

"liquifying corpses"!



Does that happen before or after they magically disappear?

[Keen]

Grave 11 consists of only ONE positive borehole which Kola extrapolated to a 9x5x1.9 grave (80 cu meters). Implicitly, we are being asked to assume this grave once had over 1,600 bodies in it.

Let's discuss this alleged " ONE positive borehole."

I tried before, but my post got put down the memory hole:

viewtopic.php?p=16820#p16820

What is it about this alleged "huge mass grave" that nobody wants to discuss it?

[Keen]

...

Thus, the ground disturbances identified align far more with the revisionist interpretation.

How many people are buried at Belzec?

You can answer with a range.

You can also answer by giving the number allegedly buried in each one of the 33 alleged "huge mass graves."

Fill in the blanks Nessie:

1 - ?, 2 - ?, 3 - ?, 4 - ?, 5 - ?, 6 - ?, 7 - ?, 8 - ?, 9 -?, 10 - ?, 11 - ?, 12 - ?, 13 - ?, 14 - ?, 15 - ?, 16 - ?, 17 - ?, 18 - ?, 19 - ?, 20 - ?, 21 - ?, 22 - ?, 23 - ?, 24 - ?, 25 - ?, 26 -?, 27 - ?, 28 - ?, 29 - ?, 30 - ?, 31 - ?, 32 - ?, 33 - ?

[Nessie]

...

Thus, the ground disturbances identified align far more with the revisionist interpretation.

How many people are buried at Belzec?

You can answer with a range.

You can also answer by giving the number allegedly buried in each one of the 33 alleged "huge mass graves."

Fill in the blanks Nessie:

1 - ?, 2 - ?, 3 - ?, 4 - ?, 5 - ?, 6 - ?, 7 - ?, 8 - ?, 9 -?, 10 - ?, 11 - ?, 12 - ?, 13 - ?, 14 - ?, 15 - ?, 16 - ?, 17 - ?, 18 - ?, 19 - ?, 20 - ?, 21 - ?, 22 - ?, 23 - ?, 24 - ?, 25 - ?, 26 -?, 27 - ?, 28 - ?, 29 - ?, 30 - ?, 31 - ?, 32 - ?, 33 - ?

Your refusal to answer my questions, is one of the reasons why I refuse to answer yours.

[Keen]

How many people are buried at Belzec?

You can answer with a range.

You can also answer by giving the number allegedly buried in each one of the 33 alleged "huge mass graves."

Fill in the blanks Nessie:

1 - ?, 2 - ?, 3 - ?, 4 - ?, 5 - ?, 6 - ?, 7 - ?, 8 - ?, 9 -?, 10 - ?, 11 - ?, 12 - ?, 13 - ?, 14 - ?, 15 - ?, 16 - ?, 17 - ?, 18 - ?, 19 - ?, 20 - ?, 21 - ?, 22 - ?, 23 - ?, 24 - ?, 25 - ?, 26 -?, 27 - ?, 28 - ?, 29 - ?, 30 - ?, 31 - ?, 32 - ?, 33 - ?

Your refusal to answer my questions, is one of the reasons why I refuse to answer yours.

And the other reasons are that you are a lying, cowardly cornered rat.

How about just "grave" #11 Nessie?

Tell us how many jews are buried in it.

[Keen]

Kola found about 30 mass graves.

About?

[Keen]

There has been no detailed discussion of this point. Bombs thinks that because the ash was in "layers" (as opposed to what?) that this proves 434K (his preferred figure) were executed at the camp.

You've hit on a very important point here Archie, and that is Kola's use of the word "layers."



What exactly does he mean when he uses the phrase: "a small layer"?

Most people think that the word layer means something like this:



And here is another alleged description of alleged Belzec "grave" #11:

Grave No. 11. A smaller grave than any hitherto discovered (with the exception of grave No.2), measures 11 m. x 9 m., located immediately adjaccnt to the NE comer of the monument/mausoleum. A few fragments of burnt human bones mixed with innumerable small pieces of carbobized wood were found at a depth of only 1.90 m.

https://tomashov.org.il/wp-content/uplo ... 997-98.pdf

Notice the discrepancy between the two alleged descriptions of alleged "grave" #11.

And this is what Haimi calls a "layer:"

viewtopic.php?p=8463#p8463

[Keen]

Much of the asserted grave volume is simply conjectural.

Actually curioussoul, ALL of the asserted grave volume is conjectural, because no graves, mass or otherwise, have ever been proven to exist at Belzec.

In addition, there is a very logical explanation for the presence of mass graves

Your "very logical explanation for the presence of mass graves" is nothing but conjecture.

The holocaust by train theory lacks the same thing that the holocaust by gassing does - ZERO physical evidence.

There is very little difference between the holocaust light crowd who espouse the holocausat by train theory and the reality deniers.

Both HAVE to accept the nonsensical utter fraud of Kola - as it allows them to thoughtlessly cling to their unsubstantiated theories.

[Keen]

Needless to say there hasn't been a response to most of my arguments, and it's now been 4 days since I raised my point about the ash layers, which has gone unanswered except for Nazgul who said they and the graves were the result of "bombing". This thread is about the "own goal" of the Kola study, yet there has been a refusal to actually grapple with what's in the study. My position is it is incompatible with revisionism, but compatible with orthodoxy. Once you start engaging with the actual study, and answering the kind of questions you have posed (how could this be? essentially) and I have answered, I think you'll see this to be the case.

Nonsense. There would have been tens of thousands of dead bodies...

Well curioussoul, those who espouse the holocaust by train theory [the holocaust light crowd] allege tens of thousands of dead bodies also.

[Archie]

Re: BA's absurd claim that the human and wood ash was perfectly separated.

I'm continuing this conversation in the appropriate thread, but Kola distinguishes between wood ash and human ash in the study. Wood ash is referred to as charcoal, human ash is called "body ashes", "crematory ashes", "crematory contents".

What the findings show is that mass body destruction occurred at Belzec. Every grave he reported on contained human remains, most frequently crematory remains (in 30/33 graves). You can also read through this thread to see that the justifications for reading the ash layers as enormous (thousands of cubic meters at least, grave 5 alone contains about a thousand according to Kola's measurements). I'm not going to recapitulate everything for you, you can read through my responses.

What I asked, and what revisionists failed to do in this thread (apparently refused to do) is explain the presence of large crematory layers as well as the large amount of grave space. Take a crack at it if you wish. I don't think there is a plausible answer within your framework, or none has been given so far.

Well, I don't see how the cremains could be "pure" with outdoor pyres. How would the Germans have separated the wood ash and from the cremains? Seems impossible given the described procedure. Also, there should be significantly more wood ash than cremains.

Here is the key to the drawings.



I looked over the drawings (the not so great scans I have found online since, again, it is IMPOSSIBLE to buy this damn book) and I found it impossible to distinguish those very similar dotted symbols.

You are implicitly making a computational claim without doing any computations.

Kola's total grave volume is 21,000 cu meters. (I think that volume can be challenged since it is very extrapolated but let's leave that for now as a separate point.) This is not pure cremains. There's sand. There's wood ash. There's top cover.
There's unburnt remains. There are even animal remains. The volume of actual cremains is much, much less than 21,000 cu meters. Moreover, translating ash volume into a number of bodies is quite difficult.

The key difficulties for you are 1) the original burial of the whole bodies, and 2) the cremation of those bodies. Cremation reduces the mass by like 95% so it is obvious why your are so eager to skip ahead to that.

Not all graves contain charcoal. The separation could have occurred because bodies were burnt on steel rails below which was the wood

So unless all the body parts are falling into the wood beneath, there's your separation. Testimonies like this also evidence far more use of gasoline than you adduce in your imagined version of the Holocaust you don't think happened.

Charcoal also could have been repurposed after use and not necessarily put back in the graves. There's no witness testimony that the burnt wood was dumped in the graves (which Kola's study evinces) and there's no witness evidence it was repurposed. So this is an unknown.

And how would the rails keep bones from falling through? Especially if you burn the body well enough for the bones to become friable?

Here's what Denier Bud's lamb looked like post-cremation. You can see a lot of small pieces there that would have fallen through if he hadn't used such a fine grate.


Arad: "When the fire went out, there were only skeletons or scattered bones on the roasters, and piles of ash underneath."

You'd have to manually fish the bones and finer cremains out of the smoldering ashes below and I do not see how a clean separation would be possible.

Some revisionists would say that because Kola didn't produce ANY pictures of the samples, we shouldn't accept anything he says. Speaking only for myself, I think the reporting of the samples is roughly accurate (since it would seem excessively brazen to falsify the results entirely). But I am not willing to accept an unproven claim that the cremain layers are 100% pure (if indeed that is even what Kola claimed vs simply being your interpretation).

"The contents of the pit were crematory remains and charcoal." (Grave 9)

"Over body layers there were some levels of crematory remains, mixed with charcoal in turn with layers of sandy soil." (Grave 10)

I would interpret "mixed with charcoal" to mean that they were not perfectly separated. And in other instances where he doesn't specifically mention charcoal, I would not be willing to assume 100% cremains or even anywhere close to that. Again, in aggregate, the wood ash should be the majority of the ash.

[bombsaway]

Well, I don't see how the cremains could be "pure" with outdoor pyres. How would the Germans have separated the wood ash and from the cremains? Seems impossible given the described procedure. Also, there should be significantly more wood ash than cremains.

Do you see the pyres at Dresden, is the thought that most of the bodies would just fall through the grates and mix with the wood below? Revisionists speculated that the burnt wood was simply pushed away and new wood put into continue burning. Where were those piles of burnt wood?

There are few speculations explaining the low amount of wood in the graves

1) liquid fuels were the main fuel source
2) the burning didn't actually consume that much wood, revisionists vastly exaggerating total fuel requirements
3) the burnt wood was recycled elsewhere, eg used for fertilizer

You're also deflecting from the point about incomplete burning. With incomplete burning the bodies won't fall through the grates and it doesn't change the grave calculus very much,

this was my post, not responded to

Yes, it's reasonable to infer from Kola's descriptions there are thousands of cubic meters of crematory contents in those graves, graves half full of crematory contents.

On average full cremation yields 1 cubic inch per kg of remains, so let's say instead 4 inches were yielded by the incomplete burning

at average weight of 40 kg, that would give 160 cubic inches of remains per person. multiply this by 400k and you get 64000000, convert that to cubic meters and you get 1048.772096

I think this shows how far off you are.