Reply to Nazgul on Treblinka and Dr. Larsen

[Keen]

The area in which the main mass graves are located is the equivalent to 56 Olympic sized swimming pools.

"Main mass graves"?

nesserta,

5 - In total, how many single, disconnected human teeth have been tangibly discovered within the 15 alleged Treblinka II graves / cremation pits in question: _?_.

10 - List all of the Treblinka II graves / cremation pits in question that you can conclusively prove actually exist and currently contain at least an iota of human remains: _?_.

15 - List all of the Treblinka II graves / cremation pits in question that you can conclusively prove currently contain the remains of at least 2 human beings: _?_.

20 - List all of the Treblinka II graves / cremation pits in question that you can conclusively prove currently contain the remains of at least 21 human beings: _?_.

25 - Of the 15 alleged Treblinka II graves / cremation pits in question - the one that you can conclusively prove currently contains the most human remains is number: _?_.

Nesserto:

The Nazis were not trying to magically disappear the corpses and the graves.

All the mass graves dug by the Nazis, and the corpses they cremated, are still at the AR camps.

Mass graves are proven. By all normal standards of evidencing, they are proven.

I can point to them in the ground.

What are you waiting for roberto?

What are you so afraid of?

[Keen]

Nesserta:

The area in which the main mass graves are located is the equivalent to 56 Olympic sized swimming pools.

Is this one of the "main mass graves" nesserto:



??

What is your definition of a "main mass grave"?

[Keen]

Nesserta:

The area in which the main mass graves are located is the equivalent to 56 Olympic sized swimming pools.

An Olympic-sized swimming pool has the following dimensions:
Length: 50 meters (164 feet)
Width: 25 meters (82 feet)

164 X 56 = 9,184 divided by 3 = 3,061 yards

82 X 56 = 4,592 divided by 3 = 1,531 yards

Dimensions of an NFL Football Field
Playing field length: 100 yards from goal line to goal line
Width: 53.3 yards

So we're talking roughly 30 football fields (NOT including the end zones).

925,000 (roughly the equivalent of every man, women and child in South Dakota) divided by 30 = 30,833.

So imagine someone alleging that in a town of 31,000, someone had murdered every man, woman and child in the town and buried them in "huge mass graves" in the towns highschool football field, and offered this:



and this:



as "evidence" to you that they had "proven" that the mass murder / burial actually happened.

Would you believe them?

[Stubble]

Messy, it's about the evidence, it's not about what you say the evidence is and claim I'm ignoring.

You yourself went from 56 Olympic swimming pools to 2.3 in the course of one thread.

Now you are back to 56.

The area in which the main mass graves are located is the equivalent to 56 Olympic sized swimming pools. I have no idea where you get the 2.3 from, unless it is the volume of some of the pits found during the 2011 survey.

Your are a joke, and you don't have evidence, because there isn't evidence for the claim.

If you actually do have evidence, for the love of god show it and quit holding out.

A neutral, who read the evidence from eyewitnesses, saw the aerial photo and studied the archaeological reports, would see that there is the evidence to prove mass graves for c800,000 and that you are just denying that.

Your inability to explain why your disbelief of the evidence is in itself evidence c800,000 were not buried and cremated at TII, is proof your ability to reliably investigate is flawed. If you knew how to investigate, you would know that to prove there are no mass graves for c800,000 at TII, you would need eyewitnesses who said there had been no such graves, documents showing hundreds of thousands left the camp and GPR proving the ground was never dug into.

I had to edit my comment, 8,400, not 88,000 (88,000 was the maximum theoretical number of people I had calculated at 10/m^3 I had actually given a range of 22,000 to 88,000 iirc). My bad.

I stand by my statement about 2 hectares and 3,000,000 bodies.

The grave space, just like the narrative, has evolved.

These things aren't independent parts you can mix and match, if you are going to use the 3,000,000 man grave space, you should have to defend the 3,000,000 man thesis.

Also, when I ran down this rabbit hole with Nessie previously, ultimately, this was the response.

We could quibble all day long about how much undisturbed ground there is, but geophysics proves at least 5748.8m3, or the equivalent to 2.3 Olympic sized swimming pools, in the area identified by witnesses as the location of the main mass graves and where the Poles identified the main area of disturbed ground in the camp.

At that point, I thought the 2 hectares and 7m crap was done. It wasn't, and neither was the old '56 Olympic swimming pools' chestnut...

I suppose both are as sure as the rising and setting of the sun...

He will never stop.

[Hektor]

Nesserta:

The area in which the main mass graves are located is the equivalent to 56 Olympic sized swimming pools.

An Olympic-sized swimming pool has the following dimensions:
Length: 50 meters (164 feet)
Width: 25 meters (82 feet)

164 X 56 = 9,184 divided by 3 = 3,061 yards

82 X 56 = 4,592 divided by 3 = 1,531 yards

Dimensions of an NFL Football Field
Playing field length: 100 yards from goal line to goal line
Width: 53.3 yards

So we're talking roughly 30 football fields (NOT including the end zones).

925,000 (roughly the equivalent of every man, women and child in South Dakota) divided by 30 = 30,833.

So imagine someone alleging that in a town of 31,000, someone had murdered every man, woman and child in the town and buried them in "huge mass graves" in the towns highschool football field, and offered this:



and this:



as "evidence" to you that they had "proven" that the mass murder / burial actually happened.

Would you believe them?

Now that looks like human remains. But it doesn't look a mass grave at all.



It is however reasonable to presume that people were indeed buried on or around the Treblinka camp sites, even if you assume that this wasn't an 'extermination' site. Exterminationists need to show us something one won't expect, if the Revisionist thesis would be true....

[Nessie]

....

Now that looks like human remains. But it doesn't look a mass grave at all.

What should a mass grave, where the corpses have been exhumed, cremated and mixed back into the ground and then planted over, look like? The answer is the mix of ashes, cremated remains, larger identifiable remains and disturbed ground that the 1945 and 2011 surveys found.

The only other places like TII are Sobibor, Belzec and Chelmno. There is no other burial site, in history, that is like those places.

It is however reasonable to presume that people were indeed buried on or around the Treblinka camp sites, even if you assume that this wasn't an 'extermination' site. Exterminationists need to show us something one won't expect, if the Revisionist thesis would be true....

Historians and archaeologists have gathered a ton of evidence, that the revisionists here deny and minimise. They do that, because they cannot gather any evidence that would disprove the mass grave claims, from eyewitness who worked there and said there were no mass burials, geophysics that finds large areas of undisturbed ground and documents recording mass transports back out of the camp.

[Nessie]

Messy, it's about the evidence, it's not about what you say the evidence is and claim I'm ignoring.

You yourself went from 56 Olympic swimming pools to 2.3 in the course of one thread.

Now you are back to 56.

The area in which the main mass graves are located is the equivalent to 56 Olympic sized swimming pools. I have no idea where you get the 2.3 from, unless it is the volume of some of the pits found during the 2011 survey.

Your are a joke, and you don't have evidence, because there isn't evidence for the claim.

If you actually do have evidence, for the love of god show it and quit holding out.

A neutral, who read the evidence from eyewitnesses, saw the aerial photo and studied the archaeological reports, would see that there is the evidence to prove mass graves for c800,000 and that you are just denying that.

Your inability to explain why your disbelief of the evidence is in itself evidence c800,000 were not buried and cremated at TII, is proof your ability to reliably investigate is flawed. If you knew how to investigate, you would know that to prove there are no mass graves for c800,000 at TII, you would need eyewitnesses who said there had been no such graves, documents showing hundreds of thousands left the camp and GPR proving the ground was never dug into.

I had to edit my comment, 8,400, not 88,000 (88,000 was the maximum theoretical number of people I had calculated at 10/m^3 I had actually given a range of 22,000 to 88,000 iirc). My bad.

I stand by my statement about 2 hectares and 3,000,000 bodies.

The grave space, just like the narrative, has evolved.

These things aren't independent parts you can mix and match, if you are going to use the 3,000,000 man grave space, you should have to defend the 3,000,000 man thesis.

Also, when I ran down this rabbit hole with Nessie previously, ultimately, this was the response.

We could quibble all day long about how much undisturbed ground there is, but geophysics proves at least 5748.8m3, or the equivalent to 2.3 Olympic sized swimming pools, in the area identified by witnesses as the location of the main mass graves and where the Poles identified the main area of disturbed ground in the camp.

At that point, I thought the 2 hectares and 7m crap was done. It wasn't, and neither was the old '56 Olympic swimming pools' chestnut...

I suppose both are as sure as the rising and setting of the sun...

He will never stop.

You still cannot explain why your disbelief, is evidence to prove there were no mass graves for c800,000.

[Keen]

The only other places like TII are Sobibor, Belzec and Chelmno. There is no other burial site, in history, that is like those places... archaeologists have gathered a ton of evidence, that the revisionists here deny and minimise.

I, Roberto Muehlenkamp, am so confident that the so-called Belzec, Chelmno, Ponary, Sobibor and Treblinka II “holocausts within the holocaust” happened as alleged in orthodox historiography, and that the archaeological / forensic / geophysical / scientific investigations of these five sites were legitimate, and that the alleged “huge mass grave discoveries” were conclusively validated; that I am willing to bet Greg Gerdes $1,000.00 that I can definitively prove - in a publicized debate and in a U.S. civil court - that there is a preponderance of conclusively documented and substantiated archaeological / forensic / geophysical / scientific evidence which proves, with 100 % certainty, that _?_ grave number _?_ currently contains the remains of - NO LESS THAN _?_ people. Furthermore, I agree that if I refuse to answer any question or get caught lying during our debate or while in court - I lose the bet / case right then and there.

http://thisisaboutscience.com/

Look at roberta run from Mr. Gerdes!

What are you waiting for roberta?

What are you so afraid of?

[Keen]

You still cannot explain why your disbelief, is evidence to prove there were no mass graves for c800,000.

"Were"?

[Keen]

I have already given you the evidence and dimensions of the area where the main mass graves were located. There was also at least one mass grave in the Lazarette section of the camp. You have been shown the archaeological reports that describe and map out where the mass graves were located and the 1944 aerial photo.

How is my inability to explain, to your satisfaction, how c800,000 were buried inside TII, proof that there are no mass graves containing the cremated remains of c800,000?

nesserta,

5 - In total, how many single, disconnected human teeth have been tangibly discovered within the 15 alleged Treblinka II graves / cremation pits in question: __?__.

10 - List all of the Treblinka II graves / cremation pits in question that you can conclusively prove actually exist and currently contain at least an iota of human remains: __?__.

15 - List all of the Treblinka II graves / cremation pits in question that you can conclusively prove currently contain the remains of at least 2 human beings: __?__.

20 - List all of the Treblinka II graves / cremation pits in question that you can conclusively prove currently contain the remains of at least 21 human beings: __?__.

25 - Of the 15 alleged Treblinka II graves / cremation pits in question - the one that you can conclusively prove currently contains the most human remains is number: __?__.

Let me take a crack at these.

5- less than a dozen
10- 0
15- 0
20- 0
25- null

Your turn roberta.

What are you waiting for?

What are you so afraid of?

[Keen]

Nazgul:

it is an established fact that deaths occurred on transports from a variety of reasons and graves were needed.

Nazgul, tell us how deaths occurring on trains is evidence that the bodies were buried within the boundary of the Treblinka II camp.

[Keen]

Keen:

Now why would Callafangers, after making this statement:

whether an allegation has occurred at all is fairly black-and-white

refuse to anser these questions:

Callafangers, can an allegation be substantiated?

Callafangers, can you provide credible and convincing evidence that it has been alleged in orthodox historiography and/or the media that huge pits were dug and utilized as mass graves at Belzec, Chelmno, Ponary, Sobibor and Treblinka II - Yes. - or - No. - ??

Callafangers, can you provide credible and convincing evidence that it has been alleged in orthodox historiography and/or the media that mass graves have been discovered by archaeologists / forensic investigators at Belzec, Chelmno, Ponary, Sobibor and Treblinka II - Yes. - or - No. - ??

Is he worried about where his answers will lead?

Me thinks so.

Nazgul:

Keen a discussion involves discussing not saying yes or no, especially as some issues are contentious.

Now why would Nazgul encourage and try to justify the dodging of relevant questions?

Oh, that's right, he doesn't have the courage, integrity or character to answer them either.

BTW Nazgul, this is a debate forum, not a discussion forum, where a no dodging rule is supposed to be applied.

And why is the subject of "huge mass graves" at Belzec, Chelmno, Ponary, Sobibor and Treblinka II "contentious?

con·ten·tious
[kənˈten(t)SHəs]
adjective
causing or likely to cause an argument; controversial:

So Nazgul is suggesting that contentious issues shouldn't be clarified with yes or no questions / answers on a debate forum?

[Hektor]

You still cannot explain why your disbelief, is evidence to prove there were no mass graves for c800,000.

"Were"?

Does he mean there are no mass-graves now?

[Nessie]

You still cannot explain why your disbelief, is evidence to prove there were no mass graves for c800,000.

"Were"?

Does he mean there are no mass-graves now?

Deniers claim that there were no mass graves dug at the AR camps, for hundreds of thousands of corpses, because hundreds of thousands of Jews were not killed at those places.

They then fail to produce any evidence, from eyewitnesses, geophysics or other source, to prove hundreds of thousands did not die inside each one of the camps.

[Keen]

You still cannot explain why your disbelief, is evidence to prove there were no mass graves for c800,000.

"Were"?

Does he mean there are no mass-graves now?

It depends on the moment.

One minute he alleges that they are there:

Nesserto:

The Nazis were not trying to magically disappear the corpses and the graves.

All the mass graves dug by the Nazis, and the corpses they cremated, are still at the AR camps.

Mass graves are proven. By all normal standards of evidencing, they are proven.

I can point to them in the ground.

And the next minute he claims that they all magically disappeared.

It's a mentally ill holohoax cult thing.