Archaeological Evidence of Mass Graves at Treblinka II

[Stubble]

So, you were conflating and extrapolating, then when I accused you of that, you denied you were doing it, and now you are making the same claim, again, got it.

[Nessie]

So, you were conflating and extrapolating, then when I accused you of that, you denied you were doing it, and now you are making the same claim, again, got it.

You are just bitter, because I have proved there is enough space inside TII, for there to have been multiple, 11 or so according to witnesses and geophysical evidence, mass graves, containing c850,000 corpses.

[Stubble]

Point to the 2 hectare 7 meter deep burial pit on the map...

[Nessie]

Point to the 2 hectare 7 meter deep burial pit on the map...

The 2 hectares is the area now covered by the main memorial, around which geophysics traced graves marked as G36 and G50-54. I do not know whereabouts, in that area, the 1945 Poles excavated the test pits, including where they dug down to 7m before they found undisturbed ground.

[Keen]

Point to the 2 hectare 7 meter deep burial pit on the map...

The 2 hectares is the area now covered by the main memorial, around which geophysics traced graves marked as G36 and G50-54. I do not know whereabouts, in that area, the 1945 Poles excavated the test pits, including where they dug down to 7m before they found undisturbed ground.

Nessie is denying this proven historical fact:

It is alleged in orthodox historiography that, during WW II, hundreds upon hundreds of thousands of corpses were buried in numerous “huge mass graves” at Belzec, Chelmno, Ponary, Sobibor and Treblinka II. However, despite all the deceptive allegations to the contrary, the truth is, the largest (in terms of quantity of remains) of the one hundred graves / cremation pits that are fraudulently alleged to have been “scientifically proven” to currently exist at these sites, in which verified human remains have been tangibly located via bona fide, verifiably honest and conclusively documented archaeology, contained the remains of - ONLY FIVE PEOPLE.

And this one as well:

It can be, and Greg Gerdes has, using legal standards applied in U.S. courts, PROVEN that the above mentioned “huge mass grave discoveries” are fraudulent charades, the Belzec, Chelmno, Ponary, Sobibor and Treblinka II mass murder / holocaust allegations are false, and the orthodox holocaust story did not happen as alleged.

NO PHYSICAL EVIDENCE - PROVES - NO MASS MURDER

[Nazgul]

they dug down to 7m before they found undisturbed ground.

Soviet bombing and shelling range remember.

[Nessie]

they dug down to 7m before they found undisturbed ground.

Soviet bombing and shelling range remember.

That cannot have caused the rectangular and often liner finds by geophysics. Shallow irregular ground disturbances are attributed to the use of explosives.

[Fred Ziffel]

here is an excellent video from Rumble on the Treblinka alleged BBQ of bodies I highly recommend

Link:

[Fred Ziffel]

Here is another you may be interested in

[Keen]

Treblinka II was a death camp located northeast of Warsaw and operated from July 1942 to October 1943. Beginning in the summer of 1942, bodies were buried in mass graves, dug with mechanical excavators... After the war, Polish forensic teams found mass graves filled with burnt human remains.

Well then:

VIII - Is it - True. - or - False. - that; If “huge mass graves” containing tons of human remains really were “forensically proven” to exist at Treblinka II - via bona fide, verifiably honest, and conclusively documented archaeology - then such “scientific proof” would be considered credible and convincing evidence in a U.S. court of law - ??

H - Is it - True. - or - False. - that; Mass graves have actually been discovered by archaeologists / forensic investigators at Treblinka II - ??

I - Can you provide credible and convincing evidence that mass graves have actually been discovered by archaeologists / forensic investigators at Treblinka II - Yes. - or - No. - ??

J - Is there a preponderance of credible and convincing evidence that mass graves have actually been discovered by archaeologists / forensic investigators at Treblinka II - Yes. - or - No. - ??

K - Can it be conclusively proven that mass graves have actually been discovered by archaeologists / forensic investigators at Treblinka II - Yes. - or - No. - ??

L - Is it a fact that mass graves have actually been discovered by archaeologists / forensic investigators at Treblinka II - Yes. - or - No. - ??

M - Can you conclusively prove that archaeologists / forensic investigators have actually located / proven the existence of mass graves at one or more of the following camps: Treblinka II - Yes. - or - No. - ??

5 - List all of the Treblinka II graves / cremation pits in question that you can conclusively prove actually exist and currently contain at least an iota of human remains: __?__

10 - List all of the Treblinka II graves / cremation pits in question that you can conclusively prove currently contain the remains of at least 2 human beings: __?__.

15 - List all of the Treblinka II graves / cremation pits in question that you can conclusively prove currently contain the remains of at least 21 human beings: __?__.

20 - Of the 15 alleged Treblinka II graves / cremation pits in question - the one that you can conclusively prove currently contains the most human remains is number: __?__.

Maps to be used to answer the above questions can be found here:

https://vnnforum.com/showpost.php?p=229 ... count=2843

[Keen]

Links to evidence here;

Caroline Sturdy-Colls Thesis and Report

https://etheses.bham.ac.uk/id/eprint/35 ... s12PhD.pdf

https://www.jstor.org/stable/pdf/j.ctt21h4xwg.13.pdf

Mattogno & Graff, see page 66 onwards, for the Soviet and Polish site examinations, 1945.

https://archive.org/details/treblinkaex ... 6/mode/2up

2024 excavations

https://muzeumtreblinka.eu/en/2024/07/0 ... tion-camp/

Link to PROOF that that Treblinka II “huge mass grave discoveries” are fraudulent charades and the Treblinka II mass murder / holocaust allegations are false:

https://thisisaboutscience.com/

Nessie proffers so-called "evidence" while Gerdes presents proof.

[Keen]

I have proved there is enough space inside TII, for there to have been multiple, 11 or so according to witnesses and geophysical evidence, mass graves, containing c850,000 corpses.

Nessie, what is 850,000 divided by 11?

BTW Nessie:

Here are 13 of the 15 fraudulently alleged "huge mass graves" of Treblinka II - as alleged by the charlatan Caroline Sturdy Colls (which she labels as "possible grave sites"):

https://vnnforum.com/attachment.php?att ... 1524525336

And here are 12 of the 15 fraudulently alleged "huge mass graves" of Treblinka II - as alleged by the charlatan Caroline Sturdy Colls (which she labels as "probable burial / cremation pits"):

https://vnnforum.com/attachment.php?att ... 1524529600

And here are the 15 fraudulently alleged "huge mass graves" of Treblinka II - as alleged by the charlatan Caroline Sturdy Colls (which she labels in various ways):

https://vnnforum.com/attachment.php?att ... 1524614037

https://vnnforum.com/showpost.php?p=229 ... count=2843

https://thisisaboutscience.com/

Nessie, why do you allege 11 when CSC alleges 15?

Also, do you deny that Yad Vashem alleges 925,000 jews were murdered at Treblinka II?

Nessie what is 925,000 divided by 15?

[Nessie]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-16657363

"...several larger pits were recorded in areas suggested by witnesses as the locations of mass graves and cremation sites.
One is 26m long, 17m wide and at least four metres deep, with a ramp at the west end and a vertical edge to the east.
Another five pits of varying sizes and also at least this deep are located nearby."

They are the pits around the main memorial, which is to the right of the blue area on the map below;



https://etheses.bham.ac.uk/id/eprint/35 ... s12PhD.pdf

That is the area of the camp multiple witnesses identify as being the location of the main mass graves. In 1945, a Polish site survey identified an area of 2 hectares, where there was disturbed ground containing human remains, which witnesses identified as being the area where the main mass graves were located. The Poles conducted a series of excavations, confirming buried human cremated remains, one of which got 7m deep, before undisturbed ground was found. That is the area in which the mass graves were located, but the Poles could not be specific about where the actual graves were in that area.

Geophysics has been able to be more specific about which parts of that area are disturbed and which are not. The disturbed parts are shown in yellow, around the main memorial. on the above map and in the linked to report, they are described as;

"...to the west of the memorial in this area a further feature was identified
that was also bisected by the concrete (G36). This feature was shown to be
rectilinear in plan within the GPR results and is located in the area believed to have
contained graves..."

It is recorded as 9m by 6m, and it may be a structure, according to appendix 4.3.6.

"Five pits were located with the GPR (G50-G54) on the eastern side of the Death
Camp (Figures 4.29 and 4.34). Although the GPR survey was unable to achieve a large
enough depth range to determine the full extent of these pits, it is possible to say
that they were all deeper than four metres and that they were all of considerable
size in plan (G50 was visible to an extent of 34m x 12m, G51-19m x 12m, G52 – 22m
x c.15m, G53 – c.18m x 7m and G54 was visible to 20.8m x c. 14m). Given their
location in the area thought to contain most of the mass graves and their proximity
to the memorial, there is a strong case for arguing that they represent further
disposals. Similarly, they appear too large to be a result of post-war looting activity."

The total area is (9x6)+(34x12)+(19x12)+(22x15)+(18x7)+(20.8x14)= 1437.2m2. The survey depth was 4m and in many cases the disturbed ground exceeded that, but if we take 4m as an average depth, that is a total volume of 1437.2x4= 5748.8m3.
If we use the 7m depth found by the Poles, then that total volume is 1437.2x7= 10,060.4m3. In another thread I estimated roughly 3.5 Olympic sized swimming pools, which is 8,750m3. The survey was also only of what was visible to GPR, as they could not survey under the memorial.

We could quibble all day long about how much undisturbed ground there is, but geophysics proves at least 5748.8m3, or the equivalent to 2.3 Olympic sized swimming pools, in the area identified by witnesses as the location of the main mass graves and where the Poles identified the main area of disturbed ground in the camp.

So-called revisionists will deny that is evidence of the mass graves, but if they are revisionists, they will provide evidence to revise why the Nazis dug so much of the camp up and what is buried in those pits. Of course, we know they cannot. Which means mass graves is the only evidenced option.

[Nazgul]

they will provide evidence to revise why the Nazis dug so much of the camp up and what is buried in those pits. Of course, we know they cannot. Which means mass graves is the only evidenced option.

More brainless talk. It was a soviet artillary and bombing range. The quoted poster is well aware of this fact but continues to ignore evidence.

http://www.vho.org/GB/c/AmicusCuriaeDemjanjuk.html

link no longer works

The Central Jewish Historical Commission in Poland, compiled in late 1945, [which] stated that the terrain of the Treblinka II camp had been pulverized with aerial bombs and unexploded artillery duds a few months after its liberation by an engineers unit of the 65th Red Army. This obliteration of traces of the Treblinka II camp by the Soviets took place because the Soviet propaganda machine tried to attach a 3,500,000 victim-count to this small, 12-hectare transit camp. Apparently, the Soviets were afraid that the Allies might request an international commission of investigation of the camp, as demanded by the November 15th, 1942 report of the underground government of the Warsaw ghetto. The report of the Central Jewish Historical Commission in Poland was explicit in putting the blame for this obliteration of the camp where it belonged, on the Red Army, for the: "premeditated destruction of evidence of German crimes and atrocities as well as profanation of partially cremated human remains and ashes."

[Nessie]

they will provide evidence to revise why the Nazis dug so much of the camp up and what is buried in those pits. Of course, we know they cannot. Which means mass graves is the only evidenced option.

More brainless talk. It was a soviet artillary and bombing range. The quoted poster is well aware of this fact but continues to ignore evidence.

http://www.vho.org/GB/c/AmicusCuriaeDemjanjuk.html

link no longer works

The Central Jewish Historical Commission in Poland, compiled in late 1945, [which] stated that the terrain of the Treblinka II camp had been pulverized with aerial bombs and unexploded artillery duds a few months after its liberation by an engineers unit of the 65th Red Army. This obliteration of traces of the Treblinka II camp by the Soviets took place because the Soviet propaganda machine tried to attach a 3,500,000 victim-count to this small, 12-hectare transit camp. Apparently, the Soviets were afraid that the Allies might request an international commission of investigation of the camp, as demanded by the November 15th, 1942 report of the underground government of the Warsaw ghetto. The report of the Central Jewish Historical Commission in Poland was explicit in putting the blame for this obliteration of the camp where it belonged, on the Red Army, for the: "premeditated destruction of evidence of German crimes and atrocities as well as profanation of partially cremated human remains and ashes."

How do bombs leave a series of rectangular shapes, in the ground? Look at the aerial photo and the read the report, which is able to distinguish irregular from regular ground disturbances.

You cherry-pick the reported use of explosives on the site, which was the Soviets joining in with local Poles, who were grave robbing.