The extant photograph of smoke from Treblinka

[Nessie]

I can mark something as odd without specific reasoning, because it is odd.

It is even more odd that he was an asset for the polish government in exile.

That makes it especially odd.

So, you thinking something is odd, is not of any evidential value and it does not prove Zabecki lied about what he saw, or when the photo was taken. Is that correct?

[Stubble]

I can mark something as odd without specific reasoning, because it is odd.

It is even more odd that he was an asset for the polish government in exile.

That makes it especially odd.

So, you thinking something is odd, is not of any evidential value and it does not prove Zabecki lied about what he saw, or when the photo was taken. Is that correct?

Nessie, I really don't think that's an accurate way to frame this.

A spy for the Polish government in exile was unable to photograph the smoke from any supposed pyres which are said to have been present daily. Instead, the one time he managed to photograph smoke from treblinka was during the uprising.

This is something to strongly consider.

The guy should have been able to photograph the smoke from the pyres from his bathroom window if he lived with, 15-30 miles of treblinka, depending on variables with visibly.

Anybody should have been able to.

[TlsMS93]

I can mark something as odd without specific reasoning, because it is odd.

It is even more odd that he was an asset for the polish government in exile.

That makes it especially odd.

So, you thinking something is odd, is not of any evidential value and it does not prove Zabecki lied about what he saw, or when the photo was taken. Is that correct?

Nessie, I really don't think that's an accurate way to frame this.

A spy for the Polish government in exile was unable to photograph the smoke from any supposed pyres which are said to have been present daily. Instead, the one time he managed to photograph smoke from treblinka was during the uprising.

This is something to strongly consider.

The guy should have been able to photograph the smoke from the pyres from his bathroom window if he lived with, 15-30 miles of treblinka, depending on variables with visibly.

Anybody should have been able to.

Exactly, photos of alleged gassed people were taken near Krema V, in the Reinhardt camps or even in the occupied Soviet territories there should have been an abundance of photos of these pyres that took months to complete. What was the difficulty? Were there more Germans at the time than Chinese today to be able to monitor every person in those locations?

[Nessie]

I can mark something as odd without specific reasoning, because it is odd.

It is even more odd that he was an asset for the polish government in exile.

That makes it especially odd.

So, you thinking something is odd, is not of any evidential value and it does not prove Zabecki lied about what he saw, or when the photo was taken. Is that correct?

Nessie, I really don't think that's an accurate way to frame this.

A spy for the Polish government in exile was unable to photograph the smoke from any supposed pyres which are said to have been present daily. Instead, the one time he managed to photograph smoke from treblinka was during the uprising.

This is something to strongly consider.

The guy should have been able to photograph the smoke from the pyres from his bathroom window if he lived with, 15-30 miles of treblinka, depending on variables with visibly.

Anybody should have been able to.

Do you think, based on your opinion of what you have read about Zabecki, that he lied about all the mass transports full of people arriving at TII, that left mostly empty and the photo he took when there was a rebellion at the camp?

[Nessie]

So, you thinking something is odd, is not of any evidential value and it does not prove Zabecki lied about what he saw, or when the photo was taken. Is that correct?

Nessie, I really don't think that's an accurate way to frame this.

A spy for the Polish government in exile was unable to photograph the smoke from any supposed pyres which are said to have been present daily. Instead, the one time he managed to photograph smoke from treblinka was during the uprising.

This is something to strongly consider.

The guy should have been able to photograph the smoke from the pyres from his bathroom window if he lived with, 15-30 miles of treblinka, depending on variables with visibly.

Anybody should have been able to.

Exactly, photos of alleged gassed people were taken near Krema V, in the Reinhardt camps or even in the occupied Soviet territories there should have been an abundance of photos of these pyres that took months to complete. What was the difficulty? Were there more Germans at the time than Chinese today to be able to monitor every person in those locations?

What evidential value do your doubts have?

[Stubble]

What doubts? I have no doubt dude snapped the extant photograph.

[Nessie]

What doubts? I have no doubt dude snapped the extant photograph.

What evidential value do your doubts, or lack of doubt have?

[Stubble]

Well, I mean, there's the evidence that cameras existed in the mid 1940's and there's the absolute absence of any pictures of plumes from pyres, so, what do you think Nessie? What value is there in noticing an absence of evidence that would have been easy to obtain?

I mean, anybody within 30 miles of the camp could have just stood on the porch and snapped a photo, but, nobody did.

Then you have a spy, take a picture of the smoke, the one time it wasn't a pyre.

Boggles the mind man

[Nessie]

Well, I mean, there's the evidence that cameras existed in the mid 1940's and there's the absolute absence of any pictures of plumes from pyres, so, what do you think Nessie? What value is there in noticing an absence of evidence that would have been easy to obtain?

I linked you to evidence that it was not easy to obtain. Zabecki, who worked close by to the camp and saw the transports, stated there were always guards present.

I mean, anybody within 30 miles of the camp could have just stood on the porch and snapped a photo, but, nobody did.

That is a ridiculous claim, about a camp on flat land, with many trees, nowhere near any houses.

Then you have a spy, take a picture of the smoke, the one time it wasn't a pyre.

Zabecki was a station master, who was asked by spies to assist them. Zabecki was not himself a spy.

Boggles the mind man

You use being boggled to justify your disbelieve. You have personalised your enquiry into the Holocaust, whereby you are driven by your opinion, rather than the evidence. You want to be boggled, so you can disbelieve the evidence that mass gassings took place. That is why you have fallen for the Holocaust denial hoax.

[Stubble]

You are aware that smoke rises, yes? And that a smoke plume is visible from between 15 to 30 miles depending on visibility?

Hell, how far away was the extant photograph take from? Better than 2 miles I assume.

[Nessie]

You are aware that smoke rises, yes? And that a smoke plume is visible from between 15 to 30 miles depending on visibility?

Hell, how far away was the extant photograph take from? Better than 2 miles I assume.

According to google maps, 950m, or less than a mile, assuming the photo was taken from the station where Zabecki worked.

[Stubble]

My god, how ever could he have gotten so close? Every day? With a camera?

Or, did he go home and get the camera and come back when the SS left?

[Nessie]

My god, how ever could he have gotten so close? Every day? With a camera?

Or, did he go home and get the camera and come back when the SS left?

The station where Zabecki worked was a 950m walk from the camp. How he had a camera at work that day, we do not know. Maybe he lived nearby and the photo is from his house. You just look for reasons to doubt, as you want to support your belief, that is contrary to the evidence, that TII was not used for mass gassings.

[TlsMS93]

The question still remains, where are the tons of images of pyres in eastern Poland and occupied Soviet territory to document Aktion 1005? The Germans at that time had far fewer men to handle the area they had, so it was easier for insurgents and partisans to photograph something that took months to complete and use it to galvanize their troops or even serve the Soviet government for propaganda purposes.

It is not possible that it would have been easier for a spy inside AB to have done this than in the relatively free world.

No spy, no Soviet reconnaissance aircraft, nothing, nothing.

[Stubble]

My god, how ever could he have gotten so close? Every day? With a camera?

Or, did he go home and get the camera and come back when the SS left?

The station where Zabecki worked was a 950m walk from the camp. How he had a camera at work that day, we do not know. Maybe he lived nearby and the photo is from his house. You just look for reasons to doubt, as you want to support your belief, that is contrary to the evidence, that TII was not used for mass gassings.

They didn't use gas for delousing, they used steam. The clothing and seized property was taken up the tube for delousing in the steam chambers and the detainees were deloused and issued camp clothes in the processing building, they were also assigned to different camps and transited through. Except for those deported east.

Now, I've found some testimony that I find credible that there were some killings at the operation Reinhardt camps. Apparently Hitler had mentioned specifically that partisans and people who gave them material support were executed in those camps.

This would be seen by the authorities as an antiterrorism operation.

Determining scale of this is difficult given the time and effort I have to devote to investigation of this claim is limited.

You would refer to this as 'shooting operations' in the 'holocaust of bullets'.