The HC Blog 'Auschwitz Index'

[TlsMS93]

There is a revenge motive for the Jewish witnesses to gassings. There is also the motive of wanting justice.

A Jew who was forced to cremate people who had died of disease or starvation at the camps, does not need to make up a gassing narrative, to want those who forced them to work as slave labour doing something that is against their religion, to be held to account.



You are lying that there is no evidence of gassings. Documents record the construction of gas chambers, which is evidence for gassings. All the Nazis who worked at the A-B Kremas admit to their use for gassings, which is evidence. The circumstances of mass arrivals, selections, people being sent to the Kremas, all record of their existence ending and their property being taken for sorting and sale, is evidence. Those sources of evidence corroborate and converge to a logical conclusion of gassings.

Of course they do. Do you really think that saying that they were just cremating the corpses of those who died naturally in the camp would be enough for them? When they were freed, they were already saturated with the propaganda abroad. All they had to do was to push these narratives, but since they did not know how Ziklon B works, they said untrue things, such as it having color or rising from the ground, the wrong color of the corpses, and other allegations that are verbose.

Since the crimes were public knowledge, it was useless to say anything else, so the only possible strategy was to “follow orders.” Jews also admitted to poisoning wells during the Black Death and yet their testimony is not acceptable because it was obtained under torture, so forget about Hoss and others who were forced to sign a “coherent” confession or be shot as “tried to escape”.

Your theory is that Jews who cremated corpses for the Nazis, made up the gassing claims. I will wait for evidence to prove your theory.

Documents show that it was a morgue and after it was built it continued to be, including the ventilation system, documents that you ignored, by the way.

What document have I ignored?

Convergence of evidence is a scarecrow to avoid being able to answer embarrassing questions.

No, it is how corroborating evidence is chronologically pieced together to reach a logical conclusion.

It is orthodoxy that has to prove something, we only point out the inconsistencies, we are the textual critics of the Holocaust religion.

Seriously? The documents of the requests to increase the morgue space were denied because the crematoriums had enough space, that is until 1944. The ventilation system for Pressac was still adequate for the original morgue, that is, there was no change for gassing.

[Stubble]

'What you relate are atrocity stories that are clearly inaccurate. Historians, lawyers and other investigators, who know what they are doing, look for more reliable sources of evidence.'

What a polite way to say, 'lies'.

[Nessie]

....
It is orthodoxy that has to prove something, we only point out the inconsistencies, we are the textual critics of the Holocaust religion.
....

I then point out the flaws in the way revisionists critique the evidence of the Holocaust. For example, inconsistencies do not prove lying.

[Nessie]

'What you relate are atrocity stories that are clearly inaccurate. Historians, lawyers and other investigators, who know what they are doing, look for more reliable sources of evidence.'

What a polite way to say, 'lies'.

Some atrocity stories are lies. Some are rumours that gather legs and grow to excess. Some are exaggerations of an actual event.

[Stubble]

Some are a guy in his book saying bullshit.

That he claims he personally witnessed.

[Nessie]

Some are a guy in his book saying bullshit.

That he claims he personally witnessed.

Revisionists are not very good at differentiating between atrocity story, rumour, hearsay and accurate and inaccurate eyewitness evidence.

[Stubble]

Apologists aren't very good at acknowledging one of the stars spouting unadulterated bullshit.

You know, like saying that German doctors butchered and tinned gassing victims to feed evil nazis in Germany.

[TlsMS93]

Some are motivated by revenge, to cover up their crimes, to give a land without a people to a people without a land, to silence the world for future acts.

[Stubble]

I will reiterate this 'witness' said he 'witnessed' Goering on his visit. The 'witness' also made up a story about bloody clothes and Goering being upset because the German people 'needed' those clothes and it was 'wasteful' to gas people in their clothes.

And according to this 'witness' from that day forward the gas chambers were disguised as shower rooms and the condemned were stripped naked.

This 'witness' just made that shit up.

[Nessie]

Apologists aren't very good at acknowledging one of the stars spouting unadulterated bullshit.

You know, like saying that German doctors butchered and tinned gassing victims to feed evil nazis in Germany.

Which witness claimed that? Name, quote and link please.

[Nessie]

I will reiterate this 'witness' said he 'witnessed' Goering on his visit. The 'witness' also made up a story about bloody clothes and Goering being upset because the German people 'needed' those clothes and it was 'wasteful' to gas people in their clothes.

And according to this 'witness' from that day forward the gas chambers were disguised as shower rooms and the condemned were stripped naked.

This 'witness' just made that shit up.

It is impossible to judge your critique of the witness, without quotes and links. I can say that Vrba made a mistake about a visit to A-B by Himmler, but making mistakes is not proof of lying. As for bloody clothes, the SS wanted everything to sell and make money and waste would be stopped. The disguising of gas chambers as showers is corroborated, so true and you need evidence to prove it was all a lie.

[Stubble]

I will reiterate this 'witness' said he 'witnessed' Goering on his visit. The 'witness' also made up a story about bloody clothes and Goering being upset because the German people 'needed' those clothes and it was 'wasteful' to gas people in their clothes.

And according to this 'witness' from that day forward the gas chambers were disguised as shower rooms and the condemned were stripped naked.

This 'witness' just made that shit up.

It is impossible to judge your critique of the witness, without quotes and links. I can say that Vrba made a mistake about a visit to A-B by Himmler, but making mistakes is not proof of lying. As for bloody clothes, the SS wanted everything to sell and make money and waste would be stopped. The disguising of gas chambers as showers is corroborated, so true and you need evidence to prove it was all a lie.

Both have been previously provided.

I'll go grab them again for you.

“June 17th, or 18th, 1942, was a beautiful sunny day. The camp was thoroughly tidied up at great speed. We noticed that the SS were all on edge. Evidently something was in the wind but we had no idea what it could be, except that we suspected that some V.I.P. was due to visit the camp.

“About half-past nine, a high-ranking SS officer in a white uniform appeared at the entrance to the crematorium enclosure, accompanied by two SS officers. It was Himmler himself. He made a careful inspection of everything. We were in the room containing the clothes of persons who had been executed when he came round. At the sight of those blood-stained garments, he turned to our SS chiefs in great surprise and asked why they were in this state. Dissatisfied with the answer he was given, he flew into a rage and thundered: ‘We need the clothing of those accursed dogs for our German people! It’s a waste to gas people in their clothes!’

“After this the gas chambers were converted into mock bathrooms with water-pipes and taps, and the people had to undress before they went to their death.”

Page 158 'The Death Factory:Kraus and Kulka' page 158.

'From time to time SS doctors visited the crematorium, above all Hauptsturm/iihrer Kitt and Obersturmfuhrer* Weber. During their visits it was just like working in a slaughterhouse. Like catde dealers they felt the thighs and calves of men and women who were still alive and selected what they called the best pieces before the victims were executed. After their execution the chosen bodies were laid on a table. The doctors proceeded to cut pieces of still warm flesh from thighs and calves and threw them into waiting receptacles. The muscles of those who had been shot were still working and contracting, making the bucketjump about. At first we thought the Nazis planned to use human flesh for plastic operations on wounded soldiers. Only later we learned that these buckets of living flesh were taken to the Institute of Hygiene at Rajsko where it was used in the laboratories for the growing of bacterial cultures. Once I heard Oberscharfuhrer Qpackernack remark: 'Horseflesh would do, but in war-time it is too valuable for that sort of thing.'

'Eyewitness Auschwitz:Three Years in the Gas Chambers' pages 46-47

I'll keep looking for the tinning remark. It's in there, along with a Berliner licking their lips.

[Nessie]

I will reiterate this 'witness' said he 'witnessed' Goering on his visit. The 'witness' also made up a story about bloody clothes and Goering being upset because the German people 'needed' those clothes and it was 'wasteful' to gas people in their clothes.

And according to this 'witness' from that day forward the gas chambers were disguised as shower rooms and the condemned were stripped naked.

This 'witness' just made that shit up.

It is impossible to judge your critique of the witness, without quotes and links. I can say that Vrba made a mistake about a visit to A-B by Himmler, but making mistakes is not proof of lying. As for bloody clothes, the SS wanted everything to sell and make money and waste would be stopped. The disguising of gas chambers as showers is corroborated, so true and you need evidence to prove it was all a lie.

Both have been previously provided.

I have previously requested that you name the person you are quoting, link to where you got the quote from and put the quote into quotation marks.

I'll go grab them again for you.

“June 17th, or 18th, 1942, was a beautiful sunny day. The camp was thoroughly tidied up at great speed. We noticed that the SS were all on edge. Evidently something was in the wind but we had no idea what it could be, except that we suspected that some V.I.P. was due to visit the camp.

“About half-past nine, a high-ranking SS officer in a white uniform appeared at the entrance to the crematorium enclosure, accompanied by two SS officers. It was Himmler himself. He made a careful inspection of everything. We were in the room containing the clothes of persons who had been executed when he came round. At the sight of those blood-stained garments, he turned to our SS chiefs in great surprise and asked why they were in this state. Dissatisfied with the answer he was given, he flew into a rage and thundered: ‘We need the clothing of those accursed dogs for our German people! It’s a waste to gas people in their clothes!’

“After this the gas chambers were converted into mock bathrooms with water-pipes and taps, and the people had to undress before they went to their death.”

Page 158 'The Death Factory:Kraus and Kulka' page 158.

I presume this is Vrba on a Himmler visit, which you have made a mistake by saying it was Goering. It is not clear how you can tell what was described is a lie. Himmler and othe high ranking Nazis (though not Goering) did visit the camp. The stolen property was an important source of income and it is not surprising that during an inspection, waste would be criticised.

'From time to time SS doctors visited the crematorium, above all Hauptsturm/iihrer Kitt and Obersturmfuhrer* Weber. During their visits it was just like working in a slaughterhouse. Like catde dealers they felt the thighs and calves of men and women who were still alive and selected what they called the best pieces before the victims were executed. After their execution the chosen bodies were laid on a table. The doctors proceeded to cut pieces of still warm flesh from thighs and calves and threw them into waiting receptacles. The muscles of those who had been shot were still working and contracting, making the bucketjump about. At first we thought the Nazis planned to use human flesh for plastic operations on wounded soldiers. Only later we learned that these buckets of living flesh were taken to the Institute of Hygiene at Rajsko where it was used in the laboratories for the growing of bacterial cultures. Once I heard Oberscharfuhrer Qpackernack remark: 'Horseflesh would do, but in war-time it is too valuable for that sort of thing.'

'Eyewitness Auschwitz:Three Years in the Gas Chambers' pages 46-47

I'll keep looking for the tinning remark. It's in there, along with a Berliner licking their lips.

I presume that is from Filip Mueller. There is no trace that I can find, that he worked with the SS doctors at A-B and it is not clear from his statement that he saw what he is talking about, in particular where he states that he later learned about. It certainly reads as an exaggerated atrocity story. But, there is evidence of the people he named working at A-B and that the camp doctors were responsible for some vile experimentation on people. I would definitely take Mueller, on this occasion, with a large pinch of salt and be inclined to disbelieve the details as he provides them.

[Stubble]

No, jackass, its Muller.

Himmler, yes Himmler.

I apologize, perhaps the White Uniform threw me.

And of course the other quote is Muller, it's from his book....

You jackass.

[Nessie]

No, jackass, its Muller.

Himmler, yes Himmler.

I apologize, perhaps the White Uniform threw me.

Vrba also wrote about Himmler visits, so how should I know who is the author of that quote?

And of course the other quote is Muller, it's from his book....

You jackass.

I will give you a pass, since you clearly are new to the subject. When quoting someone, the standard format is to name that person, provide a link and then the quote in quotation marks, to keep it separate from any comment. For example;

Tauber on the furnaces said;

https://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=82890

"...there were five furnaces in Krematorium II, each with three muffles for cremating the corpses and heated by two coke-fired hearths"

Five furnaces, with 15 muffles or openings, all heated by 2 hearths.