Operation Reinhardt staff and the T4 connection

[Stubble]

I didn't read this whole thread, but I have a question to ask about this. Is there any reliable & undisputed paper trail that proves those AR people had actually worked at euthanasia centers in the first place? Or was it just asserted as a fact by the victors of WW2, as usually? Making up a fictive curriculum vitae is far from being difficult, especially in such circumstances.

As cooks and mechanics and bus drivers and stuff? Yea.

[Eye of Zyclone]

As cooks and mechanics and bus drivers and stuff? Yea.

What kind of papers were used to prove that? Affidavits of captive Germans trying to ingratiate their gaolers with false testimonies & confessions? Anything more reliable than such crap?

[Stubble]

Let me dig. Unless I'm mistaken, personnel records reflected their service at the asylums.

[Eye of Zyclone]

Let me dig. Unless I'm mistaken, personnel records reflected their service at the asylums.

Thank you for your time and efforts, Stubble.

Would such records have been hard to forge or alter afterwards in order to strenghten a false narrative like Israel's founding myth itself?

[Stubble]

I don't think so. The records reflect stuff like 'Frankenstein' tending the agricultural detail. The doll was a kitchen chef. Hackenholt was a bus driver.

They also didn't contest this. For example, I believe it was Hackenholt who said he heard a rumor from a guy who heard there was a homicidal gassing once at one of the asylums he worked at.

They were attached to the unit that was part of T4.

I think the 'trick' was to turn T4 into something it was not and inflate the death toll to make a 'holocaust' point oh narrative. I don't think it was to invent the whole thing out of thin air.

Easier to take real documents and ascribe to them a new purpose with playful interpretation.

[Eye of Zyclone]

I don't think so. The records reflect stuff like 'Frankenstein' tending the agricultural detail. The doll was a kitchen chef. Hackenholt was a bus driver.

They also didn't contest this. For example, I believe it was Hackenholt who said he heard a rumor from a guy who heard there was a homicidal gassing once at one of the asylums he worked at.

They were attached to the unit that was part of T4.

I think the 'trick' was to turn T4 into something it was not and inflate the death toll to make a 'holocaust' point oh narrative. I don't think it was to invent the whole thing out of thin air.

Easier to take real documents and ascribe to them a new purpose with playful interpretation.

Not much harder to forge documents out of thin and/or alter genuine documents when you've just captured all the typewriters and stamps of your defeated enemies (especially when originals are nowhere to be found and never required), isn't it?



Here under are 2 forgeries fabricated by Carlos Whitlock Porter to illustrate that.



And here under is the Nuremberg document he altered for that purpose.

[Stubble]

Right, and I get that, and it isn't 'impossible' that everything related to Hackenholt driving a bus was fabricated.

I just think by volume and because of the utterly benign nature of the employment, it's unlikely there was a conspiratorial plot to position Hackenholt as a guy that drove a bus, you know?

Ultimately EoZ, I suppose this puts us at an impasse. There seems to be disagreement from you about these guys being in their unit and assigned where they were, and documents won't prove anything.

/shrug

[Eye of Zyclone]

Right, and I get that, and it isn't 'impossible' that everything related to Hackenholt driving a bus was fabricated.

I just think by volume and because of the utterly benign nature of the employment, it's unlikely there was a conspiratorial plot to position Hackenholt as a guy that drove a bus, you know?

Ultimately EoZ, I suppose this puts us at an impasse. There seems to be disagreement from you about these guys being in their unit and assigned where they were, and documents won't prove anything.

/shrug

No disagreement. Just caution. That's why I wanted to know if the previous jobs of the AR staff were known to us from a single paper, a handful of papers or even no paper at all (e.g. mere testimonies, as so often).

[Stubble]

Whole files man.

[bombsaway]

I didn't read this whole thread, but I have a question to ask about this. Is there any reliable & undisputed paper trail that proves those AR people had actually worked at euthanasia centers in the first place? Or was it just asserted as a fact by the victors of WW2, as usually? Making up a fictive curriculum vitae is far from being difficult, especially in such circumstances.

As cooks and mechanics and bus drivers and stuff? Yea.

Callafangers told me that it wasn't a coincidence they went to the Reinhardt camps - they had medical experience and many were nurses etc.

Your assertion (that they had no relevant experience) would suggest coincidence.

[Stubble]

I'm talking mainly about the comic book villains Bombsaway. The actual medical staff mostly seem to have been spared the smear.

Ironically, those are who would have been 'dispensing the medicine' under T4, not the cooks, drivers etc who were ultimately accused of the mass murder of almost 2,000,000 people.

Another point to look at is that I'm reading from the mainstream narrative. It changes shape from T4 to 'operation Reinhard', and in my opinion, you are right to highlight that. The cast of characters is fundamentally different.

Also, I'd say 'incidental' not 'coincidence'. Competent staff moved into the camp setting after their jobs in the asylums had come to an end.

[bombsaway]

I'm talking mainly about the comic book villains Bombsaway. The actual medical staff mostly seem to have been spared the smear.

Ironically, those are who would have been 'dispensing the medicine' under T4, not the cooks, drivers etc who were ultimately accused of the mass murder of almost 2,000,000 people.

Another point to look at is that I'm reading from the mainstream narrative. It changes shape from T4 to 'operation Reinhard', and in my opinion, you are right to highlight that. The cast of characters is fundamentally different.

Also, I'd say 'incidental' not 'coincidence'. Competent staff moved into the camp setting after their jobs in the asylums had come to an end.

https://codohforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=18914#p18914

Uhh, first name on this list https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Steubl

They were all "smeared". It would make no sense for The Powers to smear drivers but not nurses.

As I pointed out to Callafangers T4 officially ended in mid 1941. They didn't move directly to the camps.

[Stubble]

Was, Willie Mentz a nurse Bombsaway?

So far as who you pointed at, his medical training appears 'incidental'.

He wasn't administering 'lethal cocktails' or anything, he was a commandant, an overseer.

That job obviously could have been filled by anyone competent with logistics and paperwork.

[bombsaway]

That was Callafanger's list and assertion, not mine.

You say it's incidental that virtually the entire staff of the alleged Reinhardt and Chelmno mass killing camps came out of another mass killing operation.

"That job obviously could have been filled by anyone competent with logistics and paperwork."

This is exactly why I say within your wacky doodle frame, it is a coincidence. How many Germans do you think could have filled these positions?

[Stubble]

Bombsaway, this is actually covered on page 1 and again on page 2. Do we really need to go 'round the maypole again?

Further, I suppose we need a 'what T4 was and what T4 was not' thread.

It was not a mass killing operation. Neither was 14f13. 14f14 also was not a mass killing operation.

T4 was a state approved 'death panel' and 'euthanasia' program. I suppose you prefer they had had something closer to M.A.I.D.S. in Canada, eh?