"56 Olympic Swimming Pools" and Treblinka (Nessie's logic)

[Nessie]

26x17x4 and 5 others of varying sizes (smaller because it's not detailed and noteworthy) with the same depth. Are these the more than 50 Olympic swimming pools?

The swimming pool equivalence, is to convey the size of the area, in which the main mass graves are located. It is not the total of the graves themselves, since there is space in between them, as seen in the geophysical survey and from witness maps and descriptions.

26x17 is generally the size of a common plot of land, only wider and 4 meters deep, which, according to AI, wouldn't even fit 9,000 bodies in there, around 10% of what they claim were killed there.

The pit is at least 4m deep, the survey equipment's limit was 4m. The memorial prevents a full survey of the area, which, despite your misgivings and what AI thinks, is where hundreds of thousands of corpses were buried.

[Stubble]

Then you should have said 18 Olympic sized swimming pools...

[TlsMS93]

Nobody put a gun to the head of whoever put up that memorial, and you're bringing them up here as an excuse.

Going around saying that so many people died in one place isn't going to work.

[Nessie]

Then you should have said 18 Olympic sized swimming pools...

The area of 2 hectares, up to 7m deep, is a volume the equivalent to 56 Olympic swimming pools, in which the main mass graves are located. You just do not want to accept what a huge area that is, for hundreds of thousands to have been dumped into mass graves.

[Nessie]

Nobody put a gun to the head of whoever put up that memorial, and you're bringing them up here as an excuse.

The memorial was constructed to stop the grave robbing.

Going around saying that so many people died in one place isn't going to work.

Going around, evidencing that so many people died in one place works. Unless you are a so-called revisionists and you don't want to accept that evidence.

[Stubble]

We could quibble all day long about how much undisturbed ground there is, but geophysics proves at least 5748.8m3, or the equivalent to 2.3 Olympic sized swimming pools, in the area identified by witnesses as the location of the main mass graves and where the Poles identified the main area of disturbed ground in the camp.

At that point, I thought the 2 hectares and 7m crap was done. It wasn't, and neither was the old '56 Olympic swimming pools' chestnut...

I suppose both are as sure as the rising and setting of the sun...

He will never stop.

He will never stop.

Note, we have made the circle again and gone from, 'it's the grave space' to 'it's not the grave space' back to 'it's the grave space'...

/shrug

[Nessie]

We could quibble all day long about how much undisturbed ground there is, but geophysics proves at least 5748.8m3, or the equivalent to 2.3 Olympic sized swimming pools, in the area identified by witnesses as the location of the main mass graves and where the Poles identified the main area of disturbed ground in the camp.

At that point, I thought the 2 hectares and 7m crap was done. It wasn't, and neither was the old '56 Olympic swimming pools' chestnut...

I suppose both are as sure as the rising and setting of the sun...

He will never stop.

He will never stop.

Note, we have made the circle again and gone from, 'it's the grave space' to 'it's not the grave space' back to 'it's the grave space'...

/shrug

You are either lying, or confused. The 56 Olympic sized swimming pools was always about the area in which the main mass graves were located and not the total size of those graves themselves. I get why you lot would want to think that 2 hectares and 7m is "crap" since it is such a huge area, that would easy fit hundreds of thousands of corpses.

[szlafrok]

The actual crater depth as described is 6 meters, with a short dig there finding nothing beyond 7.5 meters.

Is it possible the depths we are given are offset by the crater wall? Since craters often form walls higher than the surrounding ground, it's easy to imagine that all the depth measurements were made from the top of that elevated wall rather than the original level ground.

That's a good point. But that spoil goes away once you bury something in the hole, meaning the buried objects are closer to the surface than estimated.

I also see that in the 1945 survey the diggers take advantage of existing holes and only dig a modest 1.5 meters or so. But if they dig into a 6m crater and find an ash layer at 7m depth, then presumably in the past there was a 7m hole that was filled with ash? I am wondering about the shape of the original hole.

I recently transcribed some extra pages of Jankiel Wiernik's "Rok.." on the Ghetto Fighters website. It contained this assertion: "Przy chowaniu trupów pracowałem trzy dnia. Masowy grób miał 100 m długości 25 m szerokości 15 m głębokości (100m x 25m x 15 = 37500 m^3 )." This is what I object to. It describes a rectangular hole. In sandy soil, no shoring, no sloping? This can't be the geometry of a real hole, in sandy soil, no less.

[Callafangers]

Nessie is really struggling here. He says (again):

The area, of 2 hectares, is the size of the area in TII, where the witnesses located the main mass graves.

But it looks like he missed a key point in the OP. Here is the only time Judge Lukaszkiewicz mentions "2 hectares":

In the northwestern section of the area, the surface is covered for about 2 hectares by a mixture of ashes and sand.

https://holocausthandbooks.com/wp-conte ... 8-torc.pdf

"In the northwestern section of the area, the surface is covered for about 2 hec-
tares by a mixture of ashes and sand. In this mixture, one finds countless hu-
man bones, often still covered with tissue remains, which are in a condition of
decomposition. During the inspection, which I made with the assistance of an
expert in forensic medicine, it was determined that the ashes are without any
doubt of human origin (remains of cremated human bones). The examination of
human skulls could discover no trace of wounding. At a distance of some 100
m, there is now an unpleasant odor of burning and decay."

Nessie is so terribly confused right now. SAD.

I have been kind enough to bold and green the text above which Nessie doesn't seem to understand.

This description ONLY speaks to what is ON THE SURFACE.

ALL of the decaying/cremated matter being spoke of here is what is ON THE SURFACE, per Judge L's own explicit and exclusive words/phrasing.

Why did you miss out the part about decaying cremated human remains?

I didn't -- you simply misunderstood it (see above).

Where is your evidence that the crater they further excavated, was the only part of the 2 hectare area that contained buried remains?

Because it is the only location for which they mention such remains. Why on Earth would I infer human remains where such remains are not mentioned at all?

What about all the eyewitnesses who located mass graves in that area?

What about the witnesses who said things which are known to be false? And if the witnesses claim an elephant is buried there, but no elephant is found when digging, it means the elephant is probably not there. Forensic investigation (if legitimate, and I'll entertain the idea that this is possibly the case) always trumps 'witnesses'.

What about the 2011 geophysical survey that located 5 pits in that area?

How many corpses were actually measured in this 2011 survey? Don't tell me about 'disturbances', since this 1945 survey clearly shows all kinds of disturbances that did not entail corpses.

You dishonestly cherry-pick only a small part of the evidence, to reach your suggested conclusion.

This is you projecting, very strongly. Sad.

[TlsMS93]

That's the excuse, as if doing that alone could prevent it, right?

56 Olympic swimming pools isn't the size of the trenches, but the total area where they are located. What does that matter? So it's not 2 hectares and 7 meters deep at all, unbelievable.

[Wetzelrad]

But if they dig into a 6m crater and find an ash layer at 7m depth, then presumably in the past there was a 7m hole that was filled with ash?

I'm skeptical of that. If there actually was a massive explosion, one which created a 6m deep crater and threw cremains out to a radius of ~80m, isn't it likely that it also moved and displaced cremains in its immediate vicinity? For all we know this was originally a 2m grave, but the force of the bomb pushed part of its contents much deeper by displacing the soil.

I'm not going to be convinced there were deep pits if they only existed at the bottom of bomb craters.

Likewise, I'm not convinced that the two pits which were refuse piles, one said to be 7m deep (inside a crater) and the other at least 5m deep, were originally dug to such depths. You don't need to dig down 7m to make a 7m landfill. Layers of trash can create extremely deep hills, as in the case of some modern landfills.

[Nessie]

Nessie is really struggling here. He says (again):


But it looks like he missed a key point in the OP. Here is the only time Judge Lukaszkiewicz mentions "2 hectares":

https://holocausthandbooks.com/wp-conte ... 8-torc.pdf

"In the northwestern section of the area, the surface is covered for about 2 hec-
tares by a mixture of ashes and sand. In this mixture, one finds countless hu-
man bones, often still covered with tissue remains, which are in a condition of
decomposition. During the inspection, which I made with the assistance of an
expert in forensic medicine, it was determined that the ashes are without any
doubt of human origin (remains of cremated human bones). The examination of
human skulls could discover no trace of wounding. At a distance of some 100
m, there is now an unpleasant odor of burning and decay."

Nessie is so terribly confused right now. SAD.

I have been kind enough to bold and green the text above which Nessie doesn't seem to understand.

This description ONLY speaks to what is ON THE SURFACE.

ALL of the decaying/cremated matter being spoke of here is what is ON THE SURFACE, per Judge L's own explicit and exclusive words/phrasing.

Why did you miss out the part about decaying cremated human remains?

I didn't -- you simply misunderstood it (see above).

You did, here, where you only mention ashes and sand and you drop human remains;

https://codohforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=17822#p17822

I have forced you to now include the part about human remains. As for only on the surface, think about it. You are talking about an explosion that left a crater, containing ashes and remains, so the spread on the surface, came from buried ashes and remains. If there are no human remains on the surface and then after an explosion there are human remains on the surface, then there must be buried human remains.

Where is your evidence that the crater they further excavated, was the only part of the 2 hectare area that contained buried remains?

Because it is the only location for which they mention such remains. Why on Earth would I infer human remains where such remains are not mentioned at all?

Quotes from the Mattogno translation;

"The largest of the craters produced by explosions"
"Numerous human remains were found by these excavations, still partially in a state of decomposition"
"There are innumerable holes and craters on the property"

If you do not believe that means there were buried cremains in that area, then you also have to ignore the eyewitness and geophysical evidence.

What about all the eyewitnesses who located mass graves in that area?

What about the witnesses who said things which are known to be false? And if the witnesses claim an elephant is buried there, but no elephant is found when digging, it means the elephant is probably not there. Forensic investigation (if legitimate, and I'll entertain the idea that this is possibly the case) always trumps 'witnesses'.

The Poles reported numerous craters and excavations, containing human remains, in the 2 hectare site. Geophysical finds of 5 pits next to each other, in the same area, corroborates the witnesses.

What about the 2011 geophysical survey that located 5 pits in that area?

How many corpses were actually measured in this 2011 survey? Don't tell me about 'disturbances', since this 1945 survey clearly shows all kinds of disturbances that did not entail corpses.

The 2011 survey traced large rectilinear pits, one with a ramp, and straight edges, that cannot have been caused by exposives.

You dishonestly cherry-pick only a small part of the evidence, to reach your suggested conclusion.

This is you projecting, very strongly. Sad.

Right from when you posted only about ashes and sand, you have been cherry-picking. Fact is that the archaeological, geophysical, forensic and eyewitness evidence all align and agree. There is a huge area of TII, that contains mass graves of cremated human remains.

[Nessie]

That's the excuse, as if doing that alone could prevent it, right?

56 Olympic swimming pools isn't the size of the trenches, but the total area where they are located. What does that matter? So it's not 2 hectares and 7 meters deep at all, unbelievable.

The area where eyewitnesses locate the main mass graves, that geophysics found 5 large pits in a row, is in an area of 2 hectares and up to 7m deep.

You do not want to accept that, because if you did, you would have to accept there is space inside TII, for hundreds of thousands of corpses to have been buried.

[TlsMS93]

Finding human remains proves what to you? What region of the planet doesn't have human remains? That alone proves absolutely nothing. Proving genocide requires finding human remains on the alleged scale and the intent to exterminate, both of which are flawed from your point of view. You refuse to assess the scale of this so-called evidence, clinging to handfuls of human remains. In a court of law, this will convict the defendants based on the quantification of evidence, not on what they imagine happened. But the defendants scattered the evidence; there's no such thing as scattering evidence. No crime is perfect, but they use this as an excuse in the Holocaust.

[Nessie]

Finding human remains proves what to you?

That buried cremated human remains, mixed in with ashes and earth have been found, in the place that multiple eyewitnesses, both Jewish and Nazi, stated that murdered people had been buried, exhumed, cremated and mixed back into the ground, is corroborating evidence.

What region of the planet doesn't have human remains? That alone proves absolutely nothing. Proving genocide requires finding human remains on the alleged scale and the intent to exterminate, both of which are flawed from your point of view. You refuse to assess the scale of this so-called evidence, clinging to handfuls of human remains.

Wrong. This thread is all about the sheer size of what has been found at TII. Where the main mass graves were located by the eyewitnesses, is an area of 2 hectares, or 20,000m2, or 29 tennis courts. That a point in that area was found to be 7m deep, means the area has a volume of 56 Olympic sized swimming pools. A geophysical survey found 5 grave pits in a row, in that location, and that was what they traced in only a small part, since the memorial restricted the survey. That is an assessment of the scale of where the mass graves were located. You are lying that it amounts to "handfuls". Only you are fooling yourself. You just cannot bring yourself to accept the actual size of the area.

In a court of law, this will convict the defendants based on the quantification of evidence, not on what they imagine happened. But the defendants scattered the evidence; there's no such thing as scattering evidence. No crime is perfect, but they use this as an excuse in the Holocaust.

The defendants tried to make quantification of the mass murder, as difficult as possible, by exhuming the corpses and burning them. At the TII trials, in Dusseldorf, West Germany, the defendants all admitted mass murders had taken place.