Maybe I'm stupid, but what exactly is it about storing bodies that makes it more convenient for the door to open outward? I don't see the connection.curioussoul wrote: ↑Tue Oct 29, 2024 11:13 pm The thing about the air-raid shelter hypothesis is that it doesn't claim the Leichenkellers were primarily meant to serve as air-raid shelters. They simply served a secondary purpose, the primary purpose being as a corpse storage facility (which is well documented). Because of this, mounting the doors inwards wouldn't really be convenient for its primary purpose.
Here are the plans for Krema II.
No, it's somebody writing a very sensational and propagandistic book accidentally admitting the underground cellars were used as air shelters. I've explained admission against interest to you four or five times now but you obviously don't get it.Nessie wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2024 8:39 am Another problem with the air raid shelter thesis is the lack of witness evidence. From Miklos Nyiszli, who worked inside the Kremas, quote produced by Archie here;
https://codohforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=579#p579
"I was in the habit of reading for a while in bed each night before I went to sleep. One night, while I was doing just that, the lights suddenly went out and the KZ alarm siren began its dismal wail. Whenever there was an alert we were taken, convoyed by well-armed SS guards, to the Sonderkommando shelter, that is, to the gas chamber.
We crossed the threshold of the gas chamber with heavy hearts. The whole kommando was present, 200 strong. It was a terrible feeling to remain in this room, knowing that hundreds of thousands of people had met a frightful end here."
That is eyewitness evidence of the gas chamber being used temporarily as a shelter during an air raid. If Kremas II, III, IV and V had all been converted, as Krema I was, for purpose use as an air raid shelter, there would have been no reason to demolish them. They could have been left in their converted state, as Krema I was.
That is your biased, illogical cherry-picked take on the witnesses claim, ignoring that there is good reason his testimony is emotive. A more neutral, logical assessment would be to look for corroborating evidence. He is corroborated that there were air raids, that the construction of the building and the Leichenkeller lended itself to be a good place to shelter. Of course he is going to be emotive about sheltering in a place where a lot of people died.Archie wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2024 2:43 pmNo, it's somebody writing a very sensational and propagandistic book accidentally admitting the underground cellars were used as air shelters. I've explained admission against interest to you four or five times now but you obviously don't get it.Nessie wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2024 8:39 am Another problem with the air raid shelter thesis is the lack of witness evidence. From Miklos Nyiszli, who worked inside the Kremas, quote produced by Archie here;
https://codohforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=579#p579
"I was in the habit of reading for a while in bed each night before I went to sleep. One night, while I was doing just that, the lights suddenly went out and the KZ alarm siren began its dismal wail. Whenever there was an alert we were taken, convoyed by well-armed SS guards, to the Sonderkommando shelter, that is, to the gas chamber.
We crossed the threshold of the gas chamber with heavy hearts. The whole kommando was present, 200 strong. It was a terrible feeling to remain in this room, knowing that hundreds of thousands of people had met a frightful end here."
That is eyewitness evidence of the gas chamber being used temporarily as a shelter during an air raid. If Kremas II, III, IV and V had all been converted, as Krema I was, for purpose use as an air raid shelter, there would have been no reason to demolish them. They could have been left in their converted state, as Krema I was.
Krema I was converted. Kremas II and III, because part of the building was built into the ground, lended themselves to be a safer place to shelter during air raids, like people who would go to their basements, or underground railways to shelter. There is no evidence from documents or the Topf & Sons engineers to prove your scenario that potential use as air raid shelters was part of the original building design.Also, there's no reason to assume Kremas II and III were "converted." They were new construction in 1943. The more likely scenario would be that air raid defense features were incorporated from the beginning since it's a lot easier to do it during initial construction than to build it and change it later.
Is there evidence from the British Engineers who built the London underground about potential use as air raid shelters? Often how things are designed and how they are used are two different beasts.
I agree with you. It is Archie who thinks that "The more likely scenario would be that air raid defense features were incorporated from the beginning...", without any evidence of that being the case.
I am sure Archie will reply. When bombs start falling people will take any protection, any shelter underground would be OK. The Birkenau guards only had trenches to lie into located near their towers according to Schlomo Pivnik. The greatest danger from bombs is the shrapnel of dirt, bomb casings and stones.
It's less plausible that Crematoria IV and V would have been used as air raid shelters, as they were both built above ground as 'regular' buildings, compared to the Leichenkellers which were basically concrete "bunkers" much more suitable for that purpose.Nessie wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2024 8:39 amThat is eyewitness evidence of the gas chamber being used temporarily as a shelter during an air raid. If Kremas II, III, IV and V had all been converted, as Krema I was, for purpose use as an air raid shelter, there would have been no reason to demolish them. They could have been left in their converted state, as Krema I was.
Krema I was all on ground level and when it was converted for use as an air raid shelter, an earth bank was formed round the building. It would have been simple to do the same for Kremas IV and V.curioussoul wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2024 12:58 pmIt's less plausible that Crematoria IV and V would have been used as air raid shelters, as they were both built above ground as 'regular' buildings, compared to the Leichenkellers which were basically concrete "bunkers" much more suitable for that purpose.Nessie wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2024 8:39 amThat is eyewitness evidence of the gas chamber being used temporarily as a shelter during an air raid. If Kremas II, III, IV and V had all been converted, as Krema I was, for purpose use as an air raid shelter, there would have been no reason to demolish them. They could have been left in their converted state, as Krema I was.