The Hungarian jews; another 'where'd they go'

[Stubble]

Recently in another thread, we got to talking about 'homicidal gas chambers' and Bombsaway said that one of the strongest cases for 'homicidal gassings' at Auschwitz Birkenau were the missing jews. Cracking that open a bit, specifically, the 'Hungarian jews' seem to be a particular point of contention.

Bombsaway linked an article I will share here;

https://codoh.com/library/document/the- ... july-1944/

Reviewing the article, I ran across a quotation in it that I believe references 'Unemployable Hungarian jews' [around reference number 36].

More broadly I want to ask the forum about the ultimate disposition of these Hungarian jews, specifically the unemployable ones, but, in a more granular way, I'd like to ask, am I misreading the article? Are these 'employable jews' in isolation blocks?

Thank you for your time.

[bombsaway]

Believe it or not, but you're strawmanning me. The "missing Jews" in and of themselves are clearly not direct evidence of gassing. Rather it's prerequisite of any such claims, and it also highlights a great implausibility I have with the revisionist narrative, that there's no documents or testimony that evidence what happened to them. Rinse and repeat w all the missing Jews that were sent to Auschwitz, the missing Jews that were sent to the Reinhardt camps, the missing Jews "resettled" all across Occupied USSR and at places like Kiev and Riga. The implausibility concerns the perfect cover up executed to conceal all of this evidence.

[Stubble]

It is not my intention to strawman you bombs and if you feel like that, I apologize, distinctly.

It is my opinion that what I have outlined here is congruent with the development of a discussion in another thread.

I'll reach out with a PM for clarification and to insure fidelity and continuity

[TlsMS93]

Note that they do not go into the internal issues of the camp because they themselves know that it did not happen, so they cling to where they went. The important thing is that the camp was not equipped for the alleged number of deaths and the documentation, in fact, provides evidence against them. They went somewhere and it is not because there is no document attesting that their narrative is correct, on the contrary. There are 50 million Nazi documents, have they all been analyzed? And what about those locked in the basements in Moscow? Did the Allies make available everything they collected from the Third Reich? Some aerial photos were only made public decades after the war, for example.

[Stubble]

Note that they do not go into the internal issues of the camp because they themselves know that it did not happen, so they cling to where they went. The important thing is that the camp was not equipped for the alleged number of deaths and the documentation, in fact, provides evidence against them. They went somewhere and it is not because there is no document attesting that their narrative is correct, on the contrary. There are 50 million Nazi documents, have they all been analyzed? And what about those locked in the basements in Moscow? Did the Allies make available everything they collected from the Third Reich? Some aerial photos were only made public decades after the war, for example.

That's as may be, and there are many other threads in which we may discuss different factors where the 'death mill' of Auschwitz, one of the few remaining purported 'death mills' I might add, is concerned.

I specifically wanted to talk about the transports of Hungarian jews and their ultimate disposition, specifically with regard to the unemployable Hungarian jews.

I also wanted to know if I have indeed misinterpreted the presented article and to know if the particular document in question refers to employable jews put into isolation in blocks 8 and 12, or if these jews were indeed unemployable, as this is particularly relevant to the topic at hand.

I thank you for your time, and I look forward to a productive thread.

[Nazgul]

There were 300 camps in Austria specifically for Hungarian jews. These remained in existence until the end of the war. Here is a map of the Austrian camp as well as the other westward drive of camps in 1945

[Stubble]

Do you know if there is any literature specifically addressing these camps, their names, their occupancy and their purpose?

[bombsaway]

It is not my intention to strawman you bombs and if you feel like that, I apologize, distinctly.

It is my opinion that what I have outlined here is congruent with the development of a discussion in another thread.

I'll reach out with a PM for clarification and to insure fidelity and continuity

I think when I say I am strawmanned by revisionists, I don't infer they're doing it maliciously or as a debate tactic. I think most of the time when people strawman it comes from a genuine place confusion about their opponent's viewpoint. It's human nature, not just a revisionist fallacy

I think this AI summation lays out the problem pretty well

First, there's our natural tendency toward cognitive shortcuts. When encountering opposing views, our brains often automatically simplify and categorize them to make them easier to process. This can lead us to reduce nuanced positions to their most basic or extreme versions.

Our confirmation bias plays a major role too. We're predisposed to interpret information in ways that confirm our existing beliefs, which can cause us to unconsciously focus on the weakest or most extreme versions of opposing arguments while overlooking stronger ones.

There's also the challenge of truly understanding perspectives we disagree with. It requires significant cognitive effort and emotional regulation to carefully consider views that conflict with our own. When we're emotionally invested in a topic, our ability to accurately represent opposing views becomes even more compromised.

The way human memory works contributes as well. We tend to remember the gist of arguments rather than their precise details, and these memories get reconstructed and potentially distorted each time we recall them. This can lead to gradually simplifying or misrepresenting others' positions over time, even when we're trying to engage in good faith.

Interestingly, there's also a self-serving aspect - by unconsciously weakening our opponent's position, we make our own argument feel stronger and more secure. This happens even when we consciously value intellectual honesty.

My encounters with revisionists in these debates has kind of convinced me that a driving force in human belief , is that belief is shaped by desire. If you want to believe something, like in political terms, say that your side is more ethical or righteousness, you will perceive and process data in a way that confirms that desired belief. People can convince themselves of anything if properly motivated.

[bombsaway]

Do you know if there is any literature specifically addressing these camps, their names, their occupancy and their purpose?

The thing about those camps, is we can follow the paper trail of the Jews deported there. Many of them were processed in Auschwitz, then sent to these places. Many of them were deported directly to these places.

But with Auschwitz you see a bunch of Jews enter the camp (we have the deportation / transport records) and then they disappear. If they ended up in the camps Nazgul mentioned, Mattogno wouldn't say

What was the fate of the Non-Employable Hungarian Jews?
At the present level of knowledge we cannot answer this question with certainty supported by documents.

He would point out, hey they end up here. He doesn't. He offers a question mark.

[Nazgul]

Do you know if there is any literature specifically addressing these camps, their names, their occupancy and their purpose?

Here is a link I compiled from another now defunct source regarding the names. However the names and locations were derived from witness statements, surivivors. Butterfangers looked into these in some detail as well. Dr Peter Lantos and his family arrived at one of these camps and did logging work. In fact two of the transports went west while only one went to Birkenau according to his book "Parallel Lines".
Hungarian Jews Austria

[Stubble]

It is not my intention to strawman you bombs and if you feel like that, I apologize, distinctly.

It is my opinion that what I have outlined here is congruent with the development of a discussion in another thread.

I'll reach out with a PM for clarification and to insure fidelity and continuity

I think when I say I am strawmanned by revisionists, I don't infer they're doing it maliciously or as a debate tactic. I think most of the time when people strawman it comes from a genuine place confusion about their opponent's viewpoint. It's human nature, not just a revisionist fallacy

I think this AI summation lays out the problem pretty well

First, there's our natural tendency toward cognitive shortcuts. When encountering opposing views, our brains often automatically simplify and categorize them to make them easier to process. This can lead us to reduce nuanced positions to their most basic or extreme versions.

Our confirmation bias plays a major role too. We're predisposed to interpret information in ways that confirm our existing beliefs, which can cause us to unconsciously focus on the weakest or most extreme versions of opposing arguments while overlooking stronger ones.

There's also the challenge of truly understanding perspectives we disagree with. It requires significant cognitive effort and emotional regulation to carefully consider views that conflict with our own. When we're emotionally invested in a topic, our ability to accurately represent opposing views becomes even more compromised.

The way human memory works contributes as well. We tend to remember the gist of arguments rather than their precise details, and these memories get reconstructed and potentially distorted each time we recall them. This can lead to gradually simplifying or misrepresenting others' positions over time, even when we're trying to engage in good faith.

Interestingly, there's also a self-serving aspect - by unconsciously weakening our opponent's position, we make our own argument feel stronger and more secure. This happens even when we consciously value intellectual honesty.

My encounters with revisionists in these debates has kind of convinced me that a driving force in human belief , is that belief is shaped by desire. If you want to believe something, like in political terms, say that your side is more ethical or righteousness, you will perceive and process data in a way that confirms that desired belief. People can convince themselves of anything if properly motivated.

Well, if you feel this describes what has transpired here, I again offer you an apology. Perhaps I misinterpreted the term 'prerequisite' or something to that effect or maybe there is a problem with the way I have framed my outline of the dialogue.

Regardless, if you would like an edit to the op, I would be more than happy to provide one more fitting with your position in this regard.

Ultimately I just want to know where the fuck the Hungarian jews are/were and if I read that memorandum correctly.

You do assert that block 8 and block 12 of the isolation wing were for 'employable' internees, correct?

[Nazgul]

My encounters with revisionists in these debates has kind of convinced me that a driving force in human belief , is that belief is shaped by desire. If you want to believe something, like in political terms, say that your side is more ethical or righteousness, you will perceive and process data in a way that confirms that desired belief. People can convince themselves of anything if properly motivated.

May I ask how this is related to the deportation of Hungarian Jews. Your thoughts on sociology or psychology has little bearing on the facts we are trying to establish.

[bombsaway]

Well, if you feel this describes what has transpired here, I again offer you an apology. Perhaps I misinterpreted the term 'prerequisite' or something to that effect or maybe there is a problem with the way I have framed my outline of the dialogue.

Regardless, if you would like an edit to the op, I would be more than happy to provide one more fitting with your position in this regard.

Ultimately I just want to know where the fuck the Hungarian jews are/were and if I read that memorandum correctly.

You do assert that block 8 and block 12 of the isolation wing were for 'employable' internees, correct?

Yeah they were isolating them from the rest of the workforce to prevent possible spread of disease

[Stubble]

Well, if you feel this describes what has transpired here, I again offer you an apology. Perhaps I misinterpreted the term 'prerequisite' or something to that effect or maybe there is a problem with the way I have framed my outline of the dialogue.

Regardless, if you would like an edit to the op, I would be more than happy to provide one more fitting with your position in this regard.

Ultimately I just want to know where the fuck the Hungarian jews are/were and if I read that memorandum correctly.

You do assert that block 8 and block 12 of the isolation wing were for 'employable' internees, correct?

Yeah they were isolating them from the rest of the workforce to prevent possible spread of disease

For two and one half months in some cases, without providing them soap, showers or laundry services.

Fully employable jews, spared the gas chambers for work, in the sick bay for a two and a half months.

[Stubble]

Do you know if there is any literature specifically addressing these camps, their names, their occupancy and their purpose?

Here is a link I compiled from another now defunct source regarding the names. However the names and locations were derived from witness statements, surivivors. Butterfangers looked into these in some detail as well. Dr Peter Lantos and his family arrived at one of these camps and did logging work. In fact two of the transports went west while only one went to Birkenau according to his book "Parallel Lines".
Hungarian Jews Austria

Wait a minute, were these camps a kind of private pubic partnership like correction corporation of America or wackenhut detention facilities?

You indicate a lack of proper documentation, and I feel this may explain why. Thus, perhaps there is billing extant to these camps to build a higher resolution picture of them with regard to their size and their needs.

I understand bombs considers these camps well known, I know I'm struck completely unaware. Has there been any serious inquiry by CODOH or others into these camps?

I need to go get a shovel. Can you point me in the correct direction for digging?