The 6,000,000 number, a fable?

[Nessie]

Nessie, you are missing some nuance with regard to the revisionist position.

No one denies decimations and reprisals. Where things get heated is with regard to a planned extermination and homicidal gas chambers.

You are strawmanning.

How to pre-war reports about concerns for the safety of 4, 5 and 6 million Jews, at the hands of the Soviets and then the Nazis, evidence that there were no gassings as part of a planned genocide of the Jews, by the Nazis?

This is non sequitur and off topic. We have many threads about gas chambers.

This discussion about the 6,000,000 is not associated with the question of homicidal gas chambers and homicidal gassings.

The thread, according to your OP, is whether the pre-war reports of 6 million is evidence that the Holocaust of the murder (by whatever means) of 6 million Jews, was a pre-planned hoax. I am asking how do reports about 4, 5 and 6 million Jews at risk of death at the hands of the Soviet and then the Nazis, evidence the Holocaust was a hoax?

[Stubble]

No, the thread is about the predetermined nature of the fabled 6,000,000, the founding myth of Israel and the apparent significance of the number.

Re read the op, you apparently missed it.

There is no dispute that there was a 'situation' for the jews. There is no dispute that jews died during ww2. There is no dispute that some jews were murdered (reprisals and decimations). There is no dispute with regard to the violation of due process of law and the stripping of liberties and rights.

You want to make this another homicidal gas chamber thread now. I'm assuming that is because you no longer want to debate the 6,000,000 number.

[Nessie]

No, the thread is about the predetermined nature of the fabled 6,000,000, the founding myth of Israel and the apparent significance of the number.

Re read the op, you apparently missed it.

There is no dispute that there was a 'situation' for the jews. There is no dispute that jews died during ww2. There is no dispute that some jews were murdered (reprisals and decimations). There is no dispute with regard to the violation of due process of law and the stripping of liberties and rights.

You want to make this another homicidal gas chamber thread now. I'm assuming that is because you no longer want to debate the 6,000,000 number.

How do reports about 4, 5 and 6 million Jews at risk of death at the hands of the Soviet and then the Nazis, evidence the Holocaust fabled 6 million death toll was a hoax?

[Stubble]

They evidence a predetermined figure, that is suggestive of a hoax, when the numbers are crunched, even by the orthodoxy, the figure is not borne out. That evidences a hoax.

The 6,000,000 figure was a fraud before ww2 and it is a fraud now.

[bombsaway]

Your analogy is missing a few key ingredients, isn't it? If White SA'ers get given an Ethnostate next year off the back of the fabricated genocide, and they were harping on about it for 50 years prior, then your analogy would be complete

Cope.

If South African farmers do get a new country, based around Orania, as a result of the reports of genocide, according to you, that would be evidence the reports of genocide were fake and it was planned, to get the new country.

Correct. Now further assume there was no murder weapon, no disposal method, utter lack of material evidence, and all the confessions from the perpetrators (Black SA'ers) were compromised, then yes it's a Slam Dunk.

I think that closes off the thread, and we can leave it there, chaps.

I think all of this is yes, contingent on other evidence decidedly showing that the Jewish genocide couldn't have happened. Then we might plausibly say, hey it's all been a propaganda campaign from the start, going back to the pogroms in Russia, which somebody actually claimed in this thread (that the pogroms were largely faked as well). I think the evidence suggests a genuine fear on the part of Jews and Zionists that this was happening, if you like read Herzl's diaries for example, but that's a side tangent.

Yet, even if all this were true, about the hoax and all, a special significance about 6 million would not be indicated, rather just a propensity to falsely claim that many millions (5,6,7!) were in danger of being killed or were being killed. There's no evidence of a singular focus on 6, and that's my argument here, and also that that should clue you guys in that something is deeply amiss with your thought process, given your own singular focus with 6. It's not the Jews who are obsessed, it's you. After the war the narrative solidified, the number became enshrined, yes, but that's also not evidence of a concerted effort around it going back into the past.

[HansHill]

After the war

Why do you keep doing this and ignoring the elephant in the room?

“Six million Jews are doomed to destruction if the
victory of the Nazis should be final.”
Nahum Goldmann via NYT, 1940

[Stubble]

There is still an obsession by believers in the 6,000,000 figure. I'm not the one obsessed or obsessing over 6,000,000 here.

So far as The 5,000,000 figure being dominant in '43, if you check later from the same authors and outlets, you get 6,000,000 from them.

/shrug

Proving the number was magic to you is going to be impossible. Again, I've got rabbis talking 'around', but, not specifically referring to the 'prophecy' before the event, explicitly, so, you will call that conspiratorial thread connecting on my end, because they didn't explicitly share why they were talking about the 6,000,000 and talking 'around' the prophecy.

It should be patently obvious that the number was predetermined and not based on any kind of investigation. If it was spiritually significant to the jewish people shouldn't be the only focus here.

[bombsaway]

After the war

Why do you keep doing this and ignoring the elephant in the room?

“Six million Jews are doomed to destruction if the
victory of the Nazis should be final.”
Nahum Goldmann via NYT, 1940

https://www.google.com/books/edition/Br ... frontcover

"at the time of this writing (1943) five million Jews are in danger of extermination"

five million number enshrined, it's official

[bombsaway]

4 million number enshrined, Reigner telegram


''RECEIVED ALARMING REPORT THAT IN FUHRER'S HEADQUARTERS PLAN DIS-CUSSED AND UNDER CONSIDERATION ALL JEWS IN COUNTRIES OCCUPIED OR CON-TROLLED GERMANY NUMBER 3 1/2 TO 4 MILLION SHOULD AFTER DEPORTATION AND CONCENTRATION IN EAST AT ONE BLOW EXTERMINATED TO RESOLVE ONCE FOR ALL JEWISH QUESTION IN EUROPE STOP ACTION REPORTED PLANNED FOR AUTUMN METHODS UNDER DISCUSSION INCLUDING PRUSSIC ACID STOP WE TRANSMIT INFORMATION WITH ALL NECESSARY RESERVATION AS EXACTITUDE CANNOT BE CONFIRMED STOP INFORMANT STATED TO HAVE CLOSE CONNECTIONS WITH HIGHEST GERMAN AUTHORITIES AND HIS REPORTS GENERALLY RELIABLE STOP INFORM AND CONSULT NEW YORK STOP FOREIGN OFFICE HAS NO INFORMA-TION BEARING ON OR CONFIRMING STORY.''

[bombsaway]

https://www.nytimes.com/1943/03/02/arch ... -nazi.html

Immediate action by the United Nations to save as many as possible of the five million Jews threatened with extermination by Adolf Hitler and to halt the liquidation of European Jews by the Nazis was demanded at a mass demonstration of Christians and Jews in Madison Square Garden last night.

five million number double enshrined. How can one argue against such convincing evidence as individual newspaper articles? From the NY Times no less.

[HansHill]

https://www.google.com/books/edition/Br ... frontcover

"at the time of this writing (1943) five million Jews are in danger of extermination"

five million number enshrined, it's official

Just so we're clear, you are not attempting to explain the prominence of the 6 million, other than to say, other numbers were prominent too.

Got it. So Revisionists are justified in poking and prodding this issue until there is a satisfactory answer.

**Edit** Interestingly, this shreds your pal Nessie's argument that these numbers were based on *checks notes* the population records of the specific Jews materially at risk.

[Nessie]

They evidence a predetermined figure, that is suggestive of a hoax, when the numbers are crunched, even by the orthodoxy, the figure is not borne out. That evidences a hoax.

The 6,000,000 figure was a fraud before ww2 and it is a fraud now.

How does a news article from the 1920s, that expressed fear 6 million Jews were at risk from the Soviets, evidence it was being planned for the Nazis to take the blame for a fake genocide in the 1940s?

[Stubble]

They weren't just trying to ratfuck Hitler's mom, any mom would do Nessie.

Germany, Russia, Zimbabwe, doesn't matter...

[bombsaway]

https://www.google.com/books/edition/Br ... frontcover

"at the time of this writing (1943) five million Jews are in danger of extermination"

five million number enshrined, it's official

Just so we're clear, you are not attempting to explain the prominence of the 6 million, other than to say, other numbers were prominent too.

Got it. So Revisionists are justified in poking and prodding this issue until there is a satisfactory answer.

There is no prominence if other numbers are also just as prominent, I think that's the definition of prominence, it stands out. The 6 million figure does not stick out compared to 5 million, pre war and especially during the war.

The article I just quoted from the NY Times is absolutely prominent Holocaust reportage, based on Jewish leaders coming together and doing a mass rally to drum up support (I think the largest such rally), and they used 5 million.

[Nessie]

They weren't just trying to ratfuck Hitler's mom, any mom would do Nessie.

Germany, Russia, Zimbabwe, doesn't matter...

The fact that Jews in Eastern Europe, historically, were often at risk of persecution or worse, from anti-Semites, such as the Nazis, meant that fears of a mass event, was barely a suspiciously accurate prediction, let alone evidence of a planned hoax.

Holocaust so-called revisionists are programmed to believe in conspiracies, so they will see them, where there are none.