Pilpul Activities on the CODOH Forum

[Wahrheitssucher]

Honestly 99.999% of people in the world disagree with the views on this forum very strongly. Do you think that they are all intellectually dishonest?

Irrelevant. What fraction of them think all 6 million were gassed via shower heads at Auschwitz? Half? Two Thirds?

Those people would be shocked to learn the Orthodox narrative, and some would probably become deniers.

Yes. Good point, Hans.
Most people are quite clueless of what the main revisionist arguments are (as they are in many countries outlawed and censored). So how could “99.999% of people in the world” be in disagreement with them?

[Archie]

Guys,

CJ, Nessie, and bombsaway are all different people. CJ is noticeably smarter than Nessie but is also relatively uniformed and has quite different talking points and obsessions than does Nessie. CJ is much more interested in Jewish history in general and in defending Jews. Nessie's posts are so repetitive that there is simply no way he could use a sock without being detected, even if he were extremely tech savvy which he is not. I have remarked that CJ and bombsaway have a somewhat similar jelly-like style of argumentation, but they are not the same person.

[Callafangers]

Guys,

CJ, Nessie, and bombsaway are all different people. CJ is noticeably smarter than Nessie but is also relatively uniformed and has quite different talking points and obsessions than does Nessie. CJ is much more interested in Jewish history in general and in defending Jews. Nessie's posts are so repetitive that there is simply no way he could use a sock without being detected, even if he were extremely tech savvy which he is not. I have remarked that CJ and bombsaway have a somewhat similar jelly-like style of argumentation, but they are not the same person.

Agreed.

[ConfusedJew]

I am not Nessie. I have barely interacted with Nessie on this forum.

What a staggeringly stupid and illogical argument to use to deny being a sock-puppet of someone!
Really? You seriously imagine anyone would believe you couldn’t be a sock-puppet because you haven’t interacted with your own self?
Wow!
This rather confirms you are what you here deny.

[*Moderators please take note]
[/quote]

I guess if I technically *were Nessie* I might not interact with Nessie because why would I interact with myself? But at the same time, maybe I would do it to make it seem like we are two different people.

But to be honest, I am not Nessie. If you have the ability to check for sock puppets, you'll see that I am not a sock.

It's a bit strange that you think that "confirms" what I am denying. It wouldn't confirm it, even if I were Nessie, but I am also not Nessie.

[ConfusedJew]

Honestly 99.999% of people in the world disagree with the views on this forum very strongly. Do you think that they are all intellectually dishonest?

Irrelevant. What fraction of them think all 6 million were gassed via shower heads at Auschwitz? Half? Two Thirds?

Those people would be shocked to learn the Orthodox narrative, and some would probably become deniers.

It's not irrelevant? I think very few think that all of the murders were conducted by gas chambers.

[Nessie]

...
I also own and have read ‘The Struggle for a Soul’ by Pastor William Lovell Hull who together with his German wife was permitted to visit Eichmann in his captivity right up to and including his lynching...

What evidence did Eichmann provide, to Hull and his wife, that revises the history of what took place inside the AR camps, Chelmno and A-B Kremas and that millions of Jews were still alive in 1944-5?

Second request for an answer.

[HansHill]

Honestly 99.999% of people in the world disagree with the views on this forum very strongly. Do you think that they are all intellectually dishonest?

Irrelevant. What fraction of them think all 6 million were gassed via shower heads at Auschwitz? Half? Two Thirds?

Those people would be shocked to learn the Orthodox narrative, and some would probably become deniers.

It's not irrelevant? I think very few think that all of the murders were conducted by gas chambers.

It is absolutely irrelevant and your own side's position supports me on this.

You claim 99.99% of people would disagree with this forum. However, the vast majority of this 99% has absolutely no idea what any of this means, so their "disagreement" is irrelevant. How can they disagree with us, if they barely even know what their own position is, let alone what our position is?

Here:

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/surv ... z-n1240031

https://www.historynet.com/new-survey-f ... and-gen-z/

https://www.jpost.com/diaspora/article-838991

I will repeat this from a previous thread: nobody is more ignorant of the Holocaust, than those who blandly affirm it. Mike (Enoch) Peinovich said it beautifully once, in that half of all Holocaust debates is teaching the other person what is even alleged to have happened in the first place.

[Wahrheitssucher]

You claim 99.99% of people would disagree with this forum. However, the vast majority of this 99% has absolutely no idea what any of this means, so their "disagreement" is irrelevant. How can they disagree with us, if they barely even know what their own position is, let alone what our position is?

…I will repeat this from a previous thread: nobody is more ignorant of the Holocaust, than those who blandly affirm it.

Mike (Enoch) Peinovich said it beautifully once, in that
half of all Holocaust debates is teaching the other person what is even alleged to have happened in the first place.

Brilliant!
Two masterful observations!

Very true!

[Nessie]

...
I also own and have read ‘The Struggle for a Soul’ by Pastor William Lovell Hull who together with his German wife was permitted to visit Eichmann in his captivity right up to and including his lynching...

What evidence did Eichmann provide, to Hull and his wife, that revises the history of what took place inside the AR camps, Chelmno and A-B Kremas and that millions of Jews were still alive in 1944-5?

Second request for an answer.

Third request for an answer. I presume that this question is being ignored, because Eichmann provided no exculpatory evidence to Hull.

[Callafangers]

What evidence did Eichmann provide, to Hull and his wife, that revises the history of what took place inside the AR camps, Chelmno and A-B Kremas and that millions of Jews were still alive in 1944-5?

Second request for an answer.

Third request for an answer. I presume that this question is being ignored, because Eichmann provided no exculpatory evidence to Hull.

Nessie, what evidence did Hitler provide that he was doing the 'Holocaust'? First request.

[Nessie]

Second request for an answer.

Third request for an answer. I presume that this question is being ignored, because Eichmann provided no exculpatory evidence to Hull.

Nessie, what evidence did Hitler provide that he was doing the 'Holocaust'? First request.

He provides evidence of motive and opportunity. His anti-Semitism, his speeches against them, the passing of the Nuremberg Race Laws as one of the first acts when coming to power, and then the arrests, imprisonment and seizure of Jewish property, all prove motive to commit crimes against Jews. Those circumstances also created the opportunity, for Nazis, to treat Jews in the most harsh ways, with little fear of the consequences.

His most direct evidential link to mass killings, was his signing of the order allowing Action T4, euthanising the disabled. If he would let disabled Germans be killed, he would let the same happen to others he considered unworthy. The link between AR and T4 is proven by the mass transfer of staff from one operation to the other. Again, he created an opportunity to kill.

[Callafangers]

He provides evidence of motive and opportunity. His anti-Semitism, his speeches against them, the passing of the Nuremberg Race Laws as one of the first acts when coming to power, and then the arrests, imprisonment and seizure of Jewish property, all prove motive to commit crimes against Jews. Those circumstances also created the opportunity, for Nazis, to treat Jews in the most harsh ways, with little fear of the consequences.

His most direct evidential link to mass killings, was his signing of the order allowing Action T4, euthanising the disabled. If he would let disabled Germans be killed, he would let the same happen to others he considered unworthy. The link between AR and T4 is proven by the mass transfer of staff from one operation to the other. Again, he created an opportunity to kill.

So, to recap:

• Evidence Hitler did the 'Holocaust': a big fat 'zero' (0)
• However: Hitler did approve of T-4 and some of its staff ended up at some alleged murder camps.

Does that capture your position correctly? If so, let's clarify:

• There remains in the year 2025 absolutely no evidence directly connecting Adolf Hitler to any notion of Jewish extermination or gassings.
• The claim of 'gassing' for T-4 remains undocumented (i.e. unproven and unrealistic), discussed here: https://www.codohforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=626
• Even if 'gassing' experiments were to have taken place at T-4 facilities, this shows at most some continuity of narrative; not of operations. Medical staff allegedly using lethal injections and/or CO bottles to euthanize the severely disabled do not become experts at engineering submarine engine gas showers, piling vast mountains of Jewish families onto outdoor funeral pyres, nor even at managing the logistical chaos of Jewish transports and arrivals, forced labor, etc.
• Per the official narrative, there is no evidence that closure of T-4 facilities was related to the opening of the 'Aktion Reinhard' camps, which suggests the availability and common-sense transfer of these staff to the new AR sites was a business decision and circumstantial, not part of some larger plan to conceal 'extermination' (their flexible assignments are also discussed by Rudolf; e.g. to the front, to Italy, etc.; further reflecting these staff were more or less 'floaters', simply sent wherever shortages occurred, once T-4 was abruptly closed).

[Nessie]

He provides evidence of motive and opportunity. His anti-Semitism, his speeches against them, the passing of the Nuremberg Race Laws as one of the first acts when coming to power, and then the arrests, imprisonment and seizure of Jewish property, all prove motive to commit crimes against Jews. Those circumstances also created the opportunity, for Nazis, to treat Jews in the most harsh ways, with little fear of the consequences.

His most direct evidential link to mass killings, was his signing of the order allowing Action T4, euthanising the disabled. If he would let disabled Germans be killed, he would let the same happen to others he considered unworthy. The link between AR and T4 is proven by the mass transfer of staff from one operation to the other. Again, he created an opportunity to kill.

So, to recap:

• Evidence Hitler did the 'Holocaust': a big fat 'zero' (0)
• However: Hitler did approve of T-4 and some of its staff ended up at some alleged murder camps.

Does that capture your position correctly?

No. Hitler evidences motive and opportunity for the Holocaust and he approved of the use of killing of people who did not fit into the Nazi ideal society.

If so, let's clarify:

• There remains in the year 2025 absolutely no evidence directly connecting Adolf Hitler to any notion of Jewish extermination or gassings.

The T4, AR connection is a direct one, as were his motives and approval of the use of killing.

[*] The claim of 'gassing' for T-4 remains undocumented (i.e. unproven and unrealistic), discussed here: https://www.codohforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=626
[*] Even if 'gassing' experiments were to have taken place at T-4 facilities, this shows at most some continuity of narrative; not of operations. Medical staff allegedly using lethal injections and/or CO bottles to euthanize the severely disabled do not become experts at engineering submarine engine gas showers, piling vast mountains of Jewish families onto outdoor funeral pyres, nor even at managing the logistical chaos of Jewish transports and arrivals, forced labor, etc.
[*] Per the official narrative, there is no evidence that closure of T-4 facilities was related to the opening of the 'Aktion Reinhard' camps, which suggests the availability and common-sense transfer of these staff to the new AR sites was a business decision and circumstantial, not part of some larger plan to conceal 'extermination' (their flexible assignments are also discussed by Rudolf; e.g. to the front, to Italy, etc.; further reflecting these staff were more or less 'floaters', simply sent wherever shortages occurred, once T-4 was abruptly closed).
[/list]

The connection is the ability of certain people to cope with working on mass death projects.

[HansHill]

This is such a non-sequitur.

Is Night of the Long Knives also evidence of the Holocaust? Surely it must be.

[Archie]

Trying to analogize Holocaust historiography to a routine murder investigation is badly flawed.

Say a woman is found dead in her house with a bullet wound. Means, motive, and opportunity are a good guide here because those considerations tell you the most probable suspects, e.g., "Hmm, looks like the husband did it." But with a normal murder, we already know that the crime has occurred. We just need to know who-done-it. And motive etc are indeed excellent guides in the situation where we know a murder has occurred.

In the context of the Holocaust debate, the thing being contested is whether these six million murders have been committed to begin with. Motive (i.e., merely pointing out that Hitler disliked Jews) doesn't really get us anywhere. If we take as given that six million Jews were murdered during WWII, then I agree that Hitler would be the most likely culprit. But this is begging the question of whether six million murders have occurred.