How Can Such a Strong Consensus Be So Wrong for so Long?

[ConfusedJew]

The Eiffel Tower 'homicidal gas chamber' makes its appearance here in this clip.

https://collections.ushmm.org/search/catalog/irn1000177

Notice that's from USHMM, so, nothing up my sleeve.

Of course the mock up of a gas chamber exists and you saw it. Nobody says anything different about that. It was a mock up.

What was the room used for? Read the door, it was a shower room. The OSS and Psywar dropped the ceiling and installed dummy shower heads.

Let me go grab you some receipts. If anyone beats me to them, I won't be upset.

Remember, the original claim was gas through pipes, just like the other fake gas chamber at the Eiffel Tower...

The idea was that it was not actually a shower but they made people think it was a shower. How do you know its a fake fake shower?

[Stubble]

The Eiffel Tower 'homicidal gas chamber' makes its appearance here in this clip.

https://collections.ushmm.org/search/catalog/irn1000177

Notice that's from USHMM, so, nothing up my sleeve.

Of course the mock up of a gas chamber exists and you saw it. Nobody says anything different about that. It was a mock up.

What was the room used for? Read the door, it was a shower room. The OSS and Psywar dropped the ceiling and installed dummy shower heads.

Let me go grab you some receipts. If anyone beats me to them, I won't be upset.

Remember, the original claim was gas through pipes, just like the other fake gas chamber at the Eiffel Tower...

The idea was that it was not actually a shower but they made people think it was a shower. How do you know its a fake fake shower?

I've edited that post. I'll add more of the receipts as I find them, I may even be able to find the names of the folks from psywar again. It was done a lot like Buchenwald. Psywar in first to stage, then the circuses.

Some food for thought;



(Dean may actually mention the Dachau forgery in this very video, I can't exactly recall)

A clarification, before being converted to a shower room, judging by the bluelines and other extant records from the camp, I believe it was a steam sanitation and disinfection chamber, before the zyklon delousing rooms were installed, then, it was converted to a shower room, then the allies dropped the ceiling in there and mocked it up as a 'homicidal gas chamber'.

[Nessie]

Can you quote the part in the Wannsee minutes that indicates a "huge drop" in Jewish population?

http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org ... nutes.html

The stated aim of the Final Solution;

"a) the expulsion of the Jews from every sphere of life of the German people,
b) the expulsion of the Jews from the living space of the German people."

That clearly means there will be a huge drop in the Jewish population, as the aim is to have no Jews living anywhere occupied by Germans. The minutes then records that;

"537,000 Jews were sent out of the country between the takeover of power and the deadline of 31 October 1941."

That is pretty much the entire Jewish population of the greater Reich. After the 1941 invasion of the Soviet Union, many were being sent east, to ghettos in the Baltic States. It is not to stop there;

"Approximately 11 million Jews will be involved in the final solution of the European Jewish question"

There is then a list of countries and their Jewish populations. Estonia is already recorded as "Jew free". Latvia has 3,500, but its Jewish population when the Nazis invaded in 1941 was c75,000. Lithuania's 1941 population was c250,000, but the minutes record it as 34,000. Those huge drops were due to the activity of the Einsaztgruppen and it was in 1941, in the Baltic States, that the Holocaust mass murders began. The Netherlands is recorded as having 160,800 Jews, which was because deportations had yet to begin.

1) The Jewish population decrease in the Reich was due to emigration, not mass executions.

Please evidence that. For example, where were the German Jews sent to the Riga ghetto in 1942, living in 1943 after the ghetto was closed down?

2) The figures in the Wannsee minutes of 11.2 million are very high. These are over 1M higher than Korherr's prewar figures and over 1.5M more than Hilberg's prewar figures. If the German statistics on Jews are as reliable as you say, why don't the numbers between German sources agree? And how is a population of 11.2M a "huge drop"? Keep in mind that the Einsatzgruppen had supposedly executed about 1M Jews by this point (early 1942).

Korherr referred to the Jewish population in 1937 and Wannsee to how many Jews it believed would be involved in the Final Solution during the 1940s. I would not expect any population reports that do not gather their data from the same sources in the same way, to produce the same figure, especially when estimating how many were in countries not occupied or aligned to them.

I have given you examples of huge drops in the populations of three countries occupied by the Nazis, and one where there had yet to be a drop, as recorded in the Wannsee Minutes and explained why that was. You also know, it is because the mass murders began in the east.

[Nessie]

...

Here's the Americans trying to explain how the Dachau "gas chamber" worked. Utterly laughable.

Indeed, and the Soviets could not fake who was responsible for the mass murders at Katyn. But you expect us to believe such incompetence can lead to the successful faking of the mass gassing of c2.5 million at 5 different camps, variously between 1941 and 1944.

The scale of hoax, you allege, is impossible to have pulled off.

[Stubble]

...

Here's the Americans trying to explain how the Dachau "gas chamber" worked. Utterly laughable.

Indeed, and the Soviets could not fake who was responsible for the mass murders at Katyn. But you expect us to believe such incompetence can lead to the successful faking of the mass gassing of c2.5 million at 5 different camps, variously between 1941 and 1944.

The scale of hoax, you allege, is impossible to have pulled off.

Argument from incredulity, that a hoax can occur is plausible as many have occurred over time. Just because you can't figure out how it happened doesn't mean it didn't happen.

[Nessie]

...

Here's the Americans trying to explain how the Dachau "gas chamber" worked. Utterly laughable.

Indeed, and the Soviets could not fake who was responsible for the mass murders at Katyn. But you expect us to believe such incompetence can lead to the successful faking of the mass gassing of c2.5 million at 5 different camps, variously between 1941 and 1944.

The scale of hoax, you allege, is impossible to have pulled off.

Argument from incredulity, that a hoax can occur is plausible as many have occurred over time. Just because you can't figure out how it happened doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Wrong. There is no evidence of a hoax on the scale alleged and when supposed evidence is produced, it is evidence of claims, such as mass gassings at Dachau, that have been established to be false. You may as well argue that witchcraft and flying broomsticks, or a boy rode his bike to the moon, are physically possible.

The argument from incredulity applies when what the arguer is being incredulous about, is a physical possibility. Mass gassings and shootings are a physical possibility.

[Stubble]

Your incredulity holds no evidentiary value.

[Nessie]

Your incredulity holds no evidentiary value.

I am not using my incredulity, I am going by what is and what is not evidenced. There is no evidence that Latvia is faking the evidence that Latvian Jews were murdered not just by the Einsatzgruppen, but also the Latvian Auxiliary Police. There is no evidence that the Dutch have faked the high level of assistance their civil servants gave to the Nazis, in identifying and registering Jews. There is no evidence Romania has faked its Holocaust, which had very little Nazi involvement.

[Stubble]

Your incredulity holds no evidentiary value.

I am not using my incredulity, I am going by what is and what is not evidenced. There is no evidence that Latvia is faking the evidence that Latvian Jews were murdered not just by the Einsatzgruppen, but also the Latvian Auxiliary Police. There is no evidence that the Dutch have faked the high level of assistance their civil servants gave to the Nazis, in identifying and registering Jews. There is no evidence Romania has faked its Holocaust, which had very little Nazi involvement.

You just don't understand evidencing.

[Nessie]

Your incredulity holds no evidentiary value.

I am not using my incredulity, I am going by what is and what is not evidenced. There is no evidence that Latvia is faking the evidence that Latvian Jews were murdered not just by the Einsatzgruppen, but also the Latvian Auxiliary Police. There is no evidence that the Dutch have faked the high level of assistance their civil servants gave to the Nazis, in identifying and registering Jews. There is no evidence Romania has faked its Holocaust, which had very little Nazi involvement.

You just don't understand evidencing.

Why do the Dutch, Latvians and Romanians all admit to their national role in the Holocaust, when it is a hoax?

[Stubble]

Nessie, I used your magic dismissal, jog on.

[Nessie]

Nessie, I used your magic dismissal, jog on.

Why do the Dutch, Latvians, Romanians, Norwegians, Belgians, French, Italians, Greeks, Bulgarians, Hungarians, Austrians, Germans, Serbians, Czech, Slovakians, Slovenians, Croatians, Lithuanians and Estonians all admit to their national role in the Holocaust, when it is a hoax?

How did Denmark and Finland get to avoid being part of the hoax, by protecting their Jewish citizens from the Nazis?

[curioussoul]

The actual answer to your question is that Holocaust academia wouldn't let anyone into their circle with a differing point of view or a critical approach to the Holocaust (in cases where it wouldn't have been outright illegal to hold such an opinion).

[Nessie]

The actual answer to your question is that Holocaust academia wouldn't let anyone into their circle with a differing point of view or a critical approach to the Holocaust (in cases where it wouldn't have been outright illegal to hold such an opinion).

That does not explain why countries such as Latvia admit to shooting Jews, alongside the Nazis. If it had been a Soviet hoax, it would very much be in the Latvian government's interests to blow that hoax, once the SU collapsed.

[curioussoul]

The actual answer to your question is that Holocaust academia wouldn't let anyone into their circle with a differing point of view or a critical approach to the Holocaust (in cases where it wouldn't have been outright illegal to hold such an opinion).

That does not explain why countries such as Latvia admit to shooting Jews, alongside the Nazis. If it had been a Soviet hoax, it would very much be in the Latvian government's interests to blow that hoax, once the SU collapsed.

Because they probably were shooting Jews in Latvia... which, again, has nothing to do with the Holocaust.