Why "the hoax" would necessitate a conspiracy involving hundreds of thousands

[Stubble]

You know what else isn't demonstrated? A genocide. A murder weapon, bodies, you know, evidence.

I suppose one either needs to find a pile of 12,000,000 dead jews, homosexuals, gypsies and roma, or one needs to find papers from the various war departments that say explicitly 'frame the Germans for genocide'.

I don't know what to tell you Bombsaway, the genocide is atrocity propaganda.

[Callafangers]

I think the root cause is political pressure. Through the use of political pressure, you can get people to believe in irrational things. I witnessed this during the COVID crisis, where political pressure was used to discourage dissenting viewpoints.

Through the use of political pressure, you can manipulate entire nations of people.

For those that believe in the story, such as BombsAway and Nessie, you certainly are aware of the overwhelming political pressure being exerted to sustain the Holocaust narrative. That fact in itself should make you suspicious. Maybe there is something there that they are trying to hide, and political powers feel threatened by it.

Hi csuperman, welcome to the forum.

Indeed, the political pressure has become so normalized that I doubt most of us can imagine what a world feels like without it. The brand of pressure most relevant to the 'Holocaust' first was first made "normal" during WW2 (then reinforced via judicial theater, decades of Hollywood, and mis-education that followed) and was never really let off.

[TlsMS93]

It's not decisive in any positive way. What it shows is that you guys implicitly believe in a vast and completely non evidenced conspiracy, and that is deeply silly and hypocritical.

So when Eisenhower brought journalists and politicians to see Buchenwald, the evidence of atrocities such as reduced heads, lampshades made of human skin and other trinkets so that “us stupid people” would not one day say it was a lie, was it a misunderstanding? Or do you still support these impostures?

They say that only the post-war period convinced them of the Holocaust and not the reports of resistance groups and the government in exile, so the liberation of the camps made them want to go ahead and hold the Germans responsible and everything was allowed, the Jews were not going to miss the opportunity to assert themselves in order to attract geopolitical capital.

[bombsaway]

You know what else isn't demonstrated? A genocide. A murder weapon, bodies, you know, evidence.

I suppose one either needs to find a pile of 12,000,000 dead jews, homosexuals, gypsies and roma, or one needs to find papers from the various war departments that say explicitly 'frame the Germans for genocide'.

I don't know what to tell you Bombsaway, the genocide is atrocity propaganda.

It's directly evidenced by documents and witnesses, and the fact that investigators found fields covered in cremains (at Treblinka) and enormous graves with stratified ash layers at the sites in question is very strong circumstantial evidence. Contrary to this, you have zero direct evidence of a mass resettlement program in Russia, zero evidence of even a single community of resettled Jews being preserved until liberation. No food deliveries, no police reports, transport/construction records, and zero witness testimonies when there were probably millions of witnesses to the program. Run an A&B comparison in a separate thread, all this is a derailment, this is where you guys have to talk and explain the conspiracy you explicitly and implicitly believe in, in terms of size and scope.

So when Eisenhower brought journalists and politicians to see Buchenwald, the evidence of atrocities such as reduced heads, lampshades made of human skin and other trinkets so that “us stupid people” would not one day say it was a lie, was it a misunderstanding? Or do you still support these impostures?

They say that only the post-war period convinced them of the Holocaust and not the reports of resistance groups and the government in exile, so the liberation of the camps made them want to go ahead and hold the Germans responsible and everything was allowed, the Jews were not going to miss the opportunity to assert themselves in order to attract geopolitical capital.

These "trinkets" have nothing to do with Jews, so assuming they are fabrications, you've proven the hoaxing of a mass historical event probably less than T4 gassings prove Jews were gassed. Off topic anyway, do a comparison in another thread with Stubble if you wish.

[Stubble]

I will repeat, a murder weapon and bodies. Find those. Find the 12,000,000 people 'exterminated' by the 'evil nazis'.

Again, it is not 'evidenced' as you and Nessie keep droning on about, or we wouldn't be here, would we...

I'm looking for the people that I hope survived, least your side could do is make an effort to find where the people they claimed died are located.

Not, you know, pouring concrete over jagged rocks any place remains could be.

12,000,000 people are going to leave a lot of material, even if you cremate all of them.

As established by the Kola study (and unsurprisingly) the expedient field cremation method is less than thorough.

Refresh my memory, did Kola find the gas chamber?

[bombsaway]

I will repeat, a murder weapon and bodies. Find those. Find the 12,000,000 people 'exterminated' by the 'evil nazis'.

Again, it is not 'evidenced' as you and Nessie keep droning on about, or we wouldn't be here, would we...

I'm looking for the people that I hope survived, least your side could do is make an effort to find where the people they claimed died are located.

Not, you know, pouring concrete over jagged rocks any place remains could be.

12,000,000 people are going to leave a lot of material, even if you cremate all of them.

As established by the Kola study (and unsurprisingly) the expedient field cremation method is less than thorough.

Refresh my memory, did Kola find the gas chamber?

What do you want them to do, extract the cremains and DNA test?

Do you believe the Soviets killed hundreds of thousands of people? Have those people been "found"?

I won't be responding to you in the future in this thread, this is OT. You should create a new one, I suggest a comparison between evidence for the orthodox Holocaust and evidence for mass resettlement.

[Stubble]

Fair, I'll put this another way, to initially 'set the narrative' was a huge task that literally took armies of propagandists, armies of them.

After that there was the consolidation of the lies and there and then they were minted as truth, by hook and by crook, at the 'trials'.

After the narrative was legitimized it has continuously been propped up by dupes and stooges who either buy the schtick, get paid to sell it, or see it as a religious duty.

At this point, it only takes a few sayanim and complacent academia. The sympathetic media don't hurt though, do it.

[bombsaway]

Fair, I'll put this another way, to initially 'set the narrative' was a huge task that literally took armies of propagandists, armies of them.

After that there was the consolidation of the lies and there and then they were minted as truth, by hook and by crook, at the 'trials'.

After the narrative was legitimized it has continuously been propped up by dupes and stooges who wither buy the schtick, get paid to sell it, or see it as a religious duty.

At this point, it only takes a few sayanim and complacent academia. The sympathetic media don't hurt though, do it.

You haven't really engaged with what I've said in this thread.

Let's say there's a Jewish woman who went to the resettlement camps and saw horrific things there (we might expect similar conditions to ghettos where in Warsaw ghetto between 1940-1942, 92,000 people died) . In Israel (where she emigrates in the 70s) she wants to tell the story of how her and her family survived and persevered in the resettlement camp. She writes a memoir and tries to get it published. She goes to a bunch of different publishers. What happens?

[Stubble]

Let's say you are a jew who manufactured ammunition in Poland in an area east of Treblinka, you get captured by the Soviet, you get a fair trial you think? 3 hots and a cot? What about your 2 baby girls and your loving wife? They just, you know, get embraced by the motherland?

Stalin, that guy, he didn't have a soft spot for jews. I'm pretty sure you and your family go to gulag.

Did any survive the gulag? Maybe. They were dead by the the time wall fell though, and their kids don't have enough of the story to know what the hell to tell anybody.

'Dad was in a nazi concentration camp, then a Soviet gulag, life is tough for our people' or something to that effect I'm sure.

[bombsaway]

Let's say you are a jew who manufactured ammunition in Poland in an area east of Treblinka, you get captured by the Soviet, you get a fair trial you think? 3 hots and a cot? What about your 2 baby girls and your loving wife? They just, you know, get embraced by the motherland?

Stalin, that guy, he didn't have a soft spot for jews. I'm pretty sure you and your family go to gulag.

Did any survive the gulag? Maybe. They were dead by the the time wall fell though, and their kids don't have enough of the story to know what the hell to tell anybody.

'Dad was in a nazi concentration camp, then a Soviet gulag, life is tough for our people' or something to that effect I'm sure.

The evidence is that Polish and other Jews who survived in the Nazi labor system were allowed by the Soviets to come back to wherever they lived, be that Poland or Western Europe.

It is entirely speculative for you to say all the "rescued Jews" were placed in immediately in Gulags. If you're saying they all died there that is an even more unwarranted and gross speculation, you're replacing one genocide for a genocide that is totally non evidenced. You might as well say they destroyed the bodies and buried them at the Reinhardt camps.

We have death statistics for the Gulags and they come out to a few percentage points per year going down to below 1% after 1950, nevertheless even if half died you would still expect to see many attempts of resettled Jews to tell their stories, just as they spoke of the ghettos and their time in labor camps. And so my question to you stands. As you walk through it you'll see how ridiculous the conspiracy theory you believe in really is, and why I perceive you and other revs to be deeply hypocritical.

[Stubble]

Jews are grains of sand on the beach like everyone else, not diamonds.

Nobody was looking for them regardless or hearing what they had to say.

I haven't found the missing persons yet, and neither have you. You put out a thought experiment, and I countered with a more realistic one.

This does lead me in to another Avenue for inquiry though, and hopefully I don't forget, what did the Soviet do with jews that made war material for the nazis? I guess I could start with the jews at Buna.

[bombsaway]

Jews are grains of sand on the beach like everyone else, not diamonds.

Nobody was looking for them regardless or hearing what they had to say.

I haven't found the missing persons yet, and neither have you. You put out a thought experiment, and I countered with a more realistic one.

This does lead me in to another Avenue for inquiry though, and hopefully I don't forget, what did the Soviet do with jews that made war material for the nazis? I guess I could start with the jews at Buna.

You can make gross speculations (what happened if they all died, what happened if they all didn't think their experiences were important) but this is not confirmed by what we know. They spoke of their experiences in labor camps and in ghettos, published, testified across various media. It's a question you can't really avoid though it seems like you're trying to. What happens when Esther writes a manuscript about what happened to her and brings it to publishers in Israel?

[Stubble]

It doesn't fit the narrative, so we get wolf vomit and poop diamonds instead after it is 'edited'.

She makes money, she's happy, the greater good is served...

[bombsaway]

It doesn't fit the narrative, so we get wolf vomit and poop diamonds instead after it is 'edited'.

She makes money, she's happy, the greater good is served...

How do the publishers know it doesn't fit the story? As I said before, I was familiar with the history, and wasn't even sure that a few resettlement camps didn't exist in USSR that were miraculously spared. This doesn't preclude or contradict genocide.And why would she consent to her personal history being grossly rewritten? This is more rampant speculation on your end.

Statements like this show me you're not really engaging with this discussion in a serious way, though you probably think you are. But clearly you think the publishers are in on the conspiracy right?

[Stubble]

You literally asked me to speculate, and I'm dead serious.

It's called 'brand protection'. The 'holocaust' brand is very important to specific interests. There is no doubt in my mind that someone would 'talk' to a person publishing such a damaging work and 'make them an offer they could not refuse'. For 'the greater good'.

Furthermore, buying a work and not publishing it is very common, so they might not even have to rewrite it. Politicians are known to buy works to suppress them for example, you don't think a nation would do it?

You call me deluded, that's fine, you're naive.