Convergance of evidence.

[Stubble]

It's pretty simple actually...

/continues to misconstrue

Me:

'Point taken'...

[bombsaway]

It's pretty simple actually...

/continues to misconstrue

Me:

'Point taken'...

You were saying they predetermined 4 million, and then fabricated these documents to support that figure. Though it could be the other way around . . .

[Stubble]

No, I said that with the older 4,000,000 death count, the patently absurd had to be taken at face value and that the Kremas can deal with the bodies projected by the new number if you assume 100% of the furnaces operated at 100% capacity 100% of the operable days. Then I noted some of the problems with that assumption, but, reiterated that you can actually have the numbers work out.

I made no presuppositions about how the death counts were derived.

[Archie]

No, I said that with the older 4,000,000 death count, the patently absurd had to be taken at face value and that the Kremas can deal with the bodies projected by the new number if you assume 100% of the furnaces operated at 100% capacity 100% of the operable days. Then I noted some of the problems with that assumption, but, reiterated that you can actually have the numbers work out.

I made no presuppositions about how the death counts were derived.

Just a reminder that the Poles were still claiming 4,000,000 in the 1980s. These were the people who had control of the most relevant territory for decades. Franciszek Piper, top scholar of the Auschwitz museum in 1978:

Throughout the almost five years of the camp’s existence about 4,000,000 people lost their lives as a result of disease, execution, and mass gassing, including 340,000 of the over 400,000 men, women and children registered in the camp. (HH#22, pg. 512)

Also, I see bombs is trotting out this idea that Hoess retracted his death toll which is not true at all. They latch onto one passage about deportation figures in the so-called memoir and ignore everything else Hoess said, including subsequent to that. Hoess maintained an elevated death toll of 2M+ at his trial in Krakow right before his death.

viewtopic.php?p=1686&#p1686

[Stubble]

The evidence obviously converged on 4,000,000 at the trial, now it converges on a little over 1,000,000.

/shrug

[bombsaway]

The evidence obviously converged on 4,000,000 at the trial, now it converges on a little over 1,000,000.

/shrug

Pray tell, what's the strongest piece of evidence that converges at 4 million?

[Stubble]

Expert consensus of course, are you saying all those historians and lawyers and witnesses were wrong?

See, this is some of the dishonesty I see from the orthodoxy, 4,000,000 was fact or you were a neo nazi anti semite bigot transphobe racist for decades after the war, now 'what do you mean 4,000,000, it is obviously this new number, because it's just so 'evidenced''....

Where does that Iron Blue converge at? How about that oven throughput?

If the orthodox narrative is correct, and there were multiple gassings per day at the Kremas, where did they store the dead?

No, the evidence does not now, any more than it did in the past, converge on 'the holocaust'...

'The preplanned mass murder of 6,000,000 jews'....

[bombsaway]

Expert consensus of course, are you saying all those historians and lawyers and witnesses were wrong?

See, this is some of the dishonesty I see from the orthodoxy, 4,000,000 was fact or you were a neo nazi anti semite bigot transphobe racist for decades after the war, now 'what do you mean 4,000,000, it is obviously this new number, because it's just so 'evidenced''....

I don't know if you're dishonest or supremely ignorant but I've repeatedly quoted you people historians who provided 1 million figure in the 50s and 60s, eg hilberg who basically founded Holocaust studies.

I really don't know if you're trolling or simply incapable of ingesting basic information, either way it makes me disinclined to engage w you. If you're wondering about my absences from this forum.

[Archie]

Expert consensus of course, are you saying all those historians and lawyers and witnesses were wrong?

See, this is some of the dishonesty I see from the orthodoxy, 4,000,000 was fact or you were a neo nazi anti semite bigot transphobe racist for decades after the war, now 'what do you mean 4,000,000, it is obviously this new number, because it's just so 'evidenced''....

I don't know if you're dishonest or supremely ignorant but I've repeatedly quoted you people historians who provided 1 million figure in the 50s and 60s, eg hilberg who basically founded Holocaust studies.

I really don't know if you're trolling or simply incapable of ingesting basic information, either way it disinclines me from engaging w you.

He wants you to explain why the Poles and Soviets said it was 4M for over forty years. Muh Hilberg (ignoring just about everything else) is not an answer to that question.

This is the problem with cribbing talking points from online sources like HC without having read any of the sources. You can't put Hilberg in context and don't realize that he was an outlier.

Leon Poliakov in 1956, responding to Reitlinger.

As regards the gigantic human charnel house that was Auschwitz, its commander Rudolf Hoess, testifying before the Nuremberg tribunal, said that 2.5 million Jews had been destroyed there. However, it seems that this figure includes also inmates other than Jews, such as gypsies, Russians or Aryan Poles. We will therefore put the total conservatively at 2 million.

Poliakov strongly objected to Reitlinger's revisionism regarding the statistics.

[bombsaway]

One can speculate about why, but I think the answer is they just didn't care enough. How prominent was the Jewish Holocaust in Soviet consciousness up until the dissolution of the USSR?

at calling hilberg an outlier, he invented Holocaust studies more or less

[Nazgul]

If you're wondering about my absences from this forum.

We disagree on the evidence you know, don't take it personal.

[Stubble]

The 'convergence of evidence' for l
LK-1 and Kremas II and III currently rests on holes that dont exist through columns that were never there in a room that doesn't have any detectable cyanide residue above background...

Muh 1,000,000 is just as flawed as muh 4,000,000.

I don't care about your convergence of bullshit.

'Muh outdoor pyres'...

You have 1 photo series from 1 day after Krema IV was damaged and a memorandum about the need to dispose of buried remains that contaminated the water supply.

Yes, there were at least 2 outside open air corpse disposals. That's not 'muh evil nazis used outdoor open air cremation to dispose of gassing victims'.

There are of course many other details, but yes, Hilberg was the first to revise the death count, because the 4,000,000 number was absolutely retarded.

Edit; for instance at LK-1 at Kremas II and III. My apologies.

[TlsMS93]

If Hilberg is the bulwark of what we know as the Holocaust, then this event is quite fragile.

What matters is how unconsensual the Holocaust is, and yet they insist on saying that the revisionists do not know how to formulate their historiography. No, the Holocaust group saw a log of wood and began carving it for their financial and influence purposes, until it formed the totem we have today for the Gentiles to worship.

[HansHill]

Here is the Jew Jacob Bronowski, who gets to just go on National TV on the BBC and tell a National audience of Boomers and Gen Xers that 4,000,000 people were killed at Auschwitz



Timestamp 1:38

The hilarious part is the following sentence, where he lambasts the Germans' "arrogance, dogma and ignorance". LOL! These people!!

[Archie]

One can speculate about why, but I think the answer is they just didn't care enough. How prominent was the Jewish Holocaust in Soviet consciousness up until the dissolution of the USSR?

at calling hilberg an outlier, he invented Holocaust studies more or less

Thanks for reinforcing your ignorance for everyone.

Hilberg's numbers were indeed on the low end.

Hilberg estimates that the number of Jews killed at Auschwitz is probably closer to 1 million, rather than the 4 million commonly cited--2.5 million Jewish victims and 1.5 million others.

You are evidently really impressed that Hilberg was capable of basic arithmetic and that he realized the by camp totals should sum up to the total. But that isn't impressive at all and it's quite damning that so many others failed to do this.