HansHill wrote: ↑Thu Apr 17, 2025 8:11 am
This is a great example of why i dislike BA's posts. Note the thinly veiled swipes at Stubble and by extension Revisionism at large.
I almost get the sense that you are bad faith with a comment like this. If I believed that 4 million were killed at Auschwitz, 1.5 million at Reinhardt, 1.5 million through shootings, then the death toll is already at 7 million. If it's not what I believe (or any serious historian, starting with Retilinger in the 40s, nor any witness, why do you bring it up or run calculations?
In a thread about "convergence of evidence" of all things, this is wildly tonedeaf. When we consider that Orthodoxy's only authoritative primary source to comment on the death toll (Hoess -
who he himself cites, see above) stated 2,500,000 killed and 4,000,000 deaths total (meaning 4 million cremations) then it is in fact BA being bad faith here. Stubble testing for the
range of cremations is not bad faith.
Yes BA, we know your side has "updated" its position over time. Lets be real, your side has a long and storied history of utilizing whichever narrative is most expedient at any moment in time. As a sidenote on Retilinger - he also diverged from wildly from Hoess at an era when his figures (4,000,000 dead) were still within the public consciousness.
Convergence of evidence, huh?
I misread Stubble's statement to mean that he had calculated out 4 million dead.
Here's Hoess btw
"I commanded Auschwitz until 1 December 1943, and estimate that at least 2,500,000 victims were executed and exterminated there by gassing and burning, and at least another half million succumbed to starvation and disease, making a total of about 3,000,000 dead. This figure represents about 70% or 80% of all persons sent to Auschwitz as prisoners, the remainder having been selected and used for slave labor in the concentration camp industries. Included among the executed and burnt were approximately 20,000 Russian prisoners of war (previously screened out of Prisoner of War cages by the Gestapo) who were delivered at Auschwitz in Wehrmacht transports operated by regular Wehrmacht officers and men. The remainder of the total number of victims included about 100,000 German Jews, and great numbers of citizens (mostly Jewish) from The Netherlands, France, Belgium, Poland, Hungary, Czechoslovakia, Greece, or other countries. We executed about 400,000 Hungarian Jews alone at Auschwitz in the summer of 1944."[69]
So he pointed to 3 million total, not 4.
then a month later he said
"I myself never knew the total number, and I have nothing to help me arrive at an estimate.
I can only remember the figures involved in the larger actions, which were repeated to me by Eichmann or his deputies.
From Upper Silesia and the General Gouvernement 250,000
Germany and Theresienstadt 100,000
Holland 95,000
Belgium 20,000
France 110,000
Greece 65,000
Hungary 400,000
Slovakia 90,000 [Total 1,130,000]
I can no longer remember the figures for the smaller actions, but they were insignificant by comparison with the numbers given above. I regard a total of 2.5 million as far too high. Even Auschwitz had limits to its destructive capabilities."
Revisionists like to treat his earlier figure as the definitive Hoess statement, but he was mightily contradicting Soviet claims while in Soviet captivity. What's the explanation here for the downgrade?
Hoess on cremations
The two smaller crematoriums III and IV were capable, ac¬
cording to calculations made by the constructional firm of Topf
of. Erfurt, of burning about 1,500 bodies within twenty-four hours.
Owing to the wartime shortage of materials the builders were com-
pdled to economize during the construction of crematoriums III
and IV and they were therefore built aboveground and the ovens
were of a less solid construction. It soon became apparent, how¬
ever, that the jSimsy construction of these two four-retort ovens did
not come up to the requirements. Number III foiled completely
after a short time and later ceased to be used altogether. Number
IV had to be repeatedly shut down, since after its fires had been
burning for from four to six wedks, the ovens or the chimne)^
burned out.
The gassed bodies were mostly burned in pits behind
crematorium IV.
The chutzpah then to cite Mr Rudolf's famous line "Chemistry is not the science" (which by the way, is a perfectly valid scientific stance to take that is wholly consistent with the scientific method, and should in fact be upheld in Rudolf's favour for not wanting to score cheap slam dunks) while simultaneously standing on assertion that eyewitness testimony IS what will prove or refute the Holocaust, physical evidence be damned, is one example of why i find people like BA to such atrocious interlocutors.
It's silly to say the combined physical evidence paints a clear picture of no Holocaust.
What happened at Chelmno?
https://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot ... elmno.html
multiple graves hundreds of meters long in a remote forest area, full crushed bones, ash, and chemical products
the eyewitness testimony, along with the documentary and physical evidence, is just what you would expect to see from a mass killing operation, just like you would expect to see eyewitness testimony concerning the movement of 1.5 million Polish Jews into Russia. But there's nothing, and it doesn't seem to bother you one iota, which is why I consider you to be a captain of silliness.
Convergence of evidence is simply what happens when discrete mass events occur. Evidence from many different sources pointing to that event occurring.
thats not how it works.