Implausibility of gassing as a method for mass killing

[Nessie]

You have just described him using the logically flawed argument from incredulity. Just because he thinks he has debunked gassings and they are preposterous, does not therefore there were no gassings. To prove something did or did not happen, you need evidence, not argument.

Its not a logical fallacy to describe something as implausible, and generate a discussion around its plausibility and the details of its history and process. You laughably still dont understand logical fallacies. Bring this back to your containment thread if you wish to discuss fallacies there.

For those wondering, yes indeed - our friend Nessie here has an entire thread where people have attempted numerous times to explain logical fallacies to him. Enjoy!

https://www.codohforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=97

It is a logical fallacy to claim that because you find gassing implausible as a method for mass killing, therefore gassing did not happen.

A discussion about its plausibility, history and process, would involve gathering evidence from eyewitnesses, documents and the physical remains of the gas chambers, and then discuss the events that took place within the buildings the gas chambers were located.

So called, revisionists cannot do that. When they try, they fall apart and contradict each other. They cannot revise the history of the AR camps, Chelmno or A-B Kremas to prove that gassings did not happen and what did. When presented with the evidence for gassings, they misrepresent, cherry-pick and down right lie.

The construction and operation of gas chambers by the Nazis is totally plausible because;

1 - it is well within their design and engineering capabilities.
2 - it is evidenced to have happened.

When revisionists claim it is not plausible they;

1 - misrepresent documents, claiming they refer to something else not evidenced to have happened, such as mass showering.
2 - get all excited about the wrong door in Krema I and think it is not possible to have a gas tight door that is made out of wood.
3 - call all the witnesses liars, without showing any understanding of witness evidence, memory or recall.
4 - they lie that every witness was tortured or coerced.
5 - get all excited because they cannot work out how the ovens could have functioned.
6 - they lie that there was no ventilation system for the gas chambers.
7 - they misrepresent evidence, such as documents about sending corpses to the Kremas, as if that proves they were corpse stores.

That is just off the top of my head, there is more.

[HansHill]

.

Person A: This is preposterous.
Person B: I agree.

This mode of conversation is perfectly valid, therefore neither person A nor B are making a logical fallacy.

[Nessie]

.

Person A: This is preposterous.
Person B: I agree.

This mode of conversation is perfectly valid, therefore neither person A nor B are making a logical fallacy.

It is not valid when those people then declare, what they think is preposterous, did not happen.

[HansHill]

It is not valid when those people then declare, what they think is preposterous, did not happen.

Why?

EDIT - actually, answer that in your Logical Fallacy containment thread.

[PangaeaProxima]

As an addition to my initial post some excerpts from the official German report on Katyn as an example how real "industrial scale" mass killings are done:

Vereinzelt fanden sich zwei nahe beieinander gelegene Genickschüsse. Nur in zwei Fällen waren drei Genickschüsse vorhanden, in einem Fall außer dem Genicksteckschuß noch ein Schläfensteckschuß.

Hieraus ergibt sich, daß fast ausnahmslos ein Genickschuß genügte, um das Opfer zur Strecke zu bringen, was also auch auf eine geübte Hand schließen läßt.

In isolated cases, two shots to the neck were found close together. Only in two cases were there three shots to the neck, and in one case there was a shot to the temple in addition to the shot to the neck.

This shows that, almost without exception, a single shot to the neck was sufficient to kill the victim, which also suggests that the shooter was skilled.

Während von den aus dem ,,L"-Grab, dem größten der 8 Massengräber, geborgenen Leichen etwa 5 % Handfesselung aufweisen, von den Opfern in den Gräbern 2 und 5 nur einige, die aus den Gräbern 4 und 6 stammenden Leichen dagegen ausnahmslos an den Händen über dem Rücken gefesselt sind, hatte es dieser Maßnahme bei den Opfern aus den Gräbern 3, 7 und 8 vor der Erschießung offenbar nicht bedurft.

Bei den Gefesselten handelte es sich vorwiegend um jüngere Offiziere und Fähnriche; diese hatten offenbar im Gegensatz zu den älteren bis zum letzten Augenblick Widerstand geleistet oder Fluchtversuche gemacht.

Die Technik der Durchführung dieser Fesselung ist in den in die Hunderte gehenden Beispielen immer völlig gleichartig, gleichsam stereotyp, woraus zu schließen ist, daß sie von einer ebenso sicheren und geübten Hand angelegt worden sein muß, wie sie bei denjenigen anzunehmen ist, die tausende streng lokalisierter Genickschüsse verabfolgt haben.

Die Handfesselung ist konsequent mittels einer 3 — 4 mm starken, geflochtenen, fabrikmäßig hergestellten, farblosen Gardinen- bzw. Vorhangschnur erfolgt. Die Schnurlänge schwankte in den überprüften Fällen zwischen 1,75 und 1,95 m.

While approximately 5% of the bodies recovered from the ‘L’ grave, the largest of the eight mass graves, show signs of handcuffing, only a few of the victims in graves 2 and 5 show signs of handcuffing, whereas the bodies from graves 4 and 6 are all bound behind their backs. this measure was apparently not necessary for the victims from graves 3, 7 and 8 before they were shot.

Those who were handcuffed were mainly younger officers and ensigns; unlike their older colleagues, they had apparently resisted or attempted to escape until the very last moment.

The technique used to carry out this binding is always completely identical, stereotypical even, in the hundreds of examples, from which it can be concluded that it must have been applied by a hand as sure and practised as that which administered thousands of precisely targeted shots to the back of the neck.

The hands were consistently bound using a 3–4 mm thick, braided, factory-made, colourless curtain cord. In the cases examined, the length of the cord varied between 1.75 and 1.95 m.

Somit ist abschließend festzustellen, daß einem Teil der Katyner Opfer vor der Genickschußtötung nicht nur Kopf- und Handfessel angelegt waren, sondern daß diese auch Bajonettstiche erhalten hatten.

Offensichtlich hatte, wie bereits erörtert, ein nicht beträchtlicher Teil der Mordopfer vor dem Tode Widerstand geleistet, worauf neben den Stichverletzungen im besonderen auch die serienmäßig wiederkehrenden Handgelenk¬ fesselungen hinweisen.

Solche Stichverletzungen überhaupt und insbesondere die Art und Lokalisation ihrer Beibringung beweisen, daß die Opfer durch körperliche Qualen an die Richtstätte getrieben worden sind.

It can therefore be concluded that some of the Katyn victims were not only bound by hand and foot before being shot in the neck, but had also been stabbed with bayonets.

As already discussed, it is evident that a significant number of the murder victims had resisted before their death, as indicated not only by the stab wounds but also by the recurring pattern of wrist restraints.

The presence of such stab wounds, and in particular the manner and location in which they were inflicted, prove that the victims were driven to the place of execution through physical torment.