Vrba is "corroborated" on a fake Himmler visit (says Nessie)

[Nazgul]

It was technically possible because it happened.

This circular argument is all they have to be honest.

[Nessie]

Carlo Mattogno and Germar Rudolf have already covered all this exhaustively, including the testimony given to the Soviets by the engineers of the crematoriums. There have been exterminationists who have advocated the demolition of these structures so that only witnesses would remain.

It does not matter how technically such extermination was possible. It was technically possible because it happened.

That is a logically sound argument. When something is proven to have taken place, then of course that something had to be possible. It does not matter how doubtful Mattogno and Rudolf are about the technicalities of gassings and cremations. There is corroborating evidence from multiple witnesses, documents, physical and other evidence, that together, proves Vrba was correct, the Kremas were used for mass gassings and cremations.

That he was found to have made a mistake about a visit by Himmler is explained by him wrongly assuming it was Himmler, when he did not see him and was only told it was him. If someone tells you something that seems reasonable at the time and you repeat it, but then find the information is wrong, that does not make you a liar.

[TlsMS93]

Mass cremations. Not even the exterminationists take seriously Bischoff's letter about 4,756 bodies per day. Mattogno has already proven that not even 1/4 of that would be possible. And the engineers at Topf and Sons refuted Sonderkommando by declaring 5 or 6 bodies per muffle.

Seriously, we are paying too much attention to something that has already been settled.

[Nessie]

Mass cremations. Not even the exterminationists take seriously Bischoff's letter about 4,756 bodies per day.

Can you evidence that claim? HDOT accepts the figure;

https://www.hdot.org/debunking-denial/a ... nts-ovens/

"The letter clearly details the Nazis’ own calculations: the ovens had the ability to burn at least 4,756 bodies in a 24-hour period"

As does Wikipedia;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Bischoff

"In 1943 the chief builder of the crematoria was able to inform his superiors in Berlin about the success of the operation: when the old crematorium in the Stammlager was included, 4,756 persons could be burned within 24 hours in five crematoria."

Mattogno has already proven that not even 1/4 of that would be possible.

He is theorised it is not possible, in his opinion. His calculations are not proof.

And the engineers at Topf and Sons refuted Sonderkommando by declaring 5 or 6 bodies per muffle.

Tauber stated they tried to overload the ovens to cause them to fail. The engineers reported constant maintenance due to high usage.

Seriously, we are paying too much attention to something that has already been settled.

Settled in favour of the historical evidence, not revisionist opinion.

[TlsMS93]

And Leclerc's Ferrari can reach 1600 km/h because the team boss wrote a letter or it can go even faster according to eyewitnesses. Practical race tests and engine evaluations don't matter.

[TlsMS93]

The undressing room was twice the size of the alleged gas chamber.

Piper’s second argument is as follows:

“The underground rooms of the crematoria were used as gas chambers from the moment the facilities were put into operation. This function was present in the first plans of these buildings, no later than January 1942. The plans of that date of crematoria II and III show not one but two underground rooms, one of them twice the size of the other, with different ventilation equipment. One room (the undressing room) had only exhaust ventilation. The other room had forced ventilation with twice the power, although this room (the gas chamber) was only half the size of the undressing room.”

According to Piper, therefore, “Morgue 1” (the alleged gas chamber) had twice the ventilation capacity of “Morgue 2” (the alleged undressing room) – further proof of Piper’s incredible historical and documentary ignorance.

In fact, as I have shown elsewhere, “Morgue 1” provided 9.49 air exchanges per hour, while “Morgue 2” provided 11.08; this means that the “undressing room” was better ventilated than the “gas chamber”!

On the Piper-Meyer Controversy
Soviet Propaganda vs. Pseudo-Revisionism

By Carlo Mattogno ∙ May 1, 2004

Seriously, I’ll stop here.

[Nessie]

And Leclerc's Ferrari can reach 1600 km/h because the team boss wrote a letter or it can go even faster according to eyewitnesses. Practical race tests and engine evaluations don't matter.

You chose not to believe the reported practical use of the ovens. Instead, you believe the opinion of people who have no relevant engineering experience or conducted experimentation.

[Nessie]

The undressing room was twice the size of the alleged gas chamber.

It needed extra space for seating, people undressing, Sonderkommados to move around collecting property and the Nazi guards. The gas chambers were just for people to stand in.

Piper’s second argument is as follows:

“The underground rooms of the crematoria were used as gas chambers from the moment the facilities were put into operation. This function was present in the first plans of these buildings, no later than January 1942. The plans of that date of crematoria II and III show not one but two underground rooms, one of them twice the size of the other, with different ventilation equipment. One room (the undressing room) had only exhaust ventilation. The other room had forced ventilation with twice the power, although this room (the gas chamber) was only half the size of the undressing room.”

According to Piper, therefore, “Morgue 1” (the alleged gas chamber) had twice the ventilation capacity of “Morgue 2” (the alleged undressing room) – further proof of Piper’s incredible historical and documentary ignorance.

If what you claim is accurate, Piper did not say it had twice the ventilation capacity, he said it had twice the power, for half the space, without saying what the final capacity was.

In fact, as I have shown elsewhere, “Morgue 1” provided 9.49 air exchanges per hour, while “Morgue 2” provided 11.08; this means that the “undressing room” was better ventilated than the “gas chamber”!

On the Piper-Meyer Controversy
Soviet Propaganda vs. Pseudo-Revisionism

By Carlo Mattogno ∙ May 1, 2004

Seriously, I’ll stop here.

The difference is about 15%, so not significant. Your theorising is not evidence. The best evidence regarding the working of the Kremas comes from the engineers and documents.

[curioussoul]

Key events. Every single person, Jewish (of various nationalities) Nazi, German and Polish civilian, who worked at the Kremas, reports their use for mass gassings.

"Every single person"?! Thousands of people worked in the Kremas. Lists of personnel show that sometimes hundreds of prisoners worked as stokers at any one time. The Soviets hand-picked a few dudes willing to tell elaborate lies that bolstered their own narrative (such as Tauber). That's like less than one tenth of one percent of all the people who worked in the Kremas. To claim "every single person" witnessed gassings is yet another lie.

[Nessie]

Key events. Every single person, Jewish (of various nationalities) Nazi, German and Polish civilian, who worked at the Kremas, reports their use for mass gassings.

"Every single person"?! Thousands of people worked in the Kremas. Lists of personnel show that sometimes hundreds of prisoners worked as stokers at any one time.

Correct, but how many survived the war? Very few.

The Soviets hand-picked a few dudes willing to tell elaborate lies that bolstered their own narrative (such as Tauber).

Tauber gave his testimony in May 1945, to the Polish enquiry commission. The Auschwitz trials were run in Poland and West Germany. The Soviets had very little to do with the investigations.

That's like less than one tenth of one percent of all the people who worked in the Kremas. To claim "every single person" witnessed gassings is yet another lie.

100% of those who gave evidence as to what happened at the Kremas, SS, Jewish (from various nationalities), German and Polish civilians, all agree there were homicidal gassings. You admit that a lot of people saw inside the Kremas, yet revisionists cannot find a single witness who states there were no gassings and what really happened. Your allegation of lying is wrong.

[curioussoul]

Correct, but how many survived the war? Very few.

Thousands were still alive when the Soviets captured the camp in January, 1945. According to a Soviet report dated March 9, 1945, the Soviets encountered 4,299 prisoners. Historian Filip Friedman claimed that:

"Over 5,000 escapees from the most horrendous slaughterhouse in the world now raise their accusatory voices against the demoniacal Hitlerite criminals."

From TMOTAM (p. 293).

"Of the 4,299 potential witnesses, only a little over 200 (4.7%) were interrogated by the Soviets,604 but only three of them – 0.07% of all the witnesses – were granted the honor of serving as witnesses from the “Sonderkommando”: Szlama Dragon, Henryk Mandelbaum and Henryk Tauber. Their statements in subsequent depositions to the Poles still constitute the framework of the dominant version of history."

(p. 296)

Therefore, the Soviets carefully hand-picked a small number of self-styled eye-witnesses they believed could further their cause the most.

[Nessie]

Correct, but how many survived the war? Very few.

Thousands were still alive when the Soviets captured the camp in January, 1945. According to a Soviet report dated March 9, 1945, the Soviets encountered 4,299 prisoners. Historian Filip Friedman claimed that:

"Over 5,000 escapees from the most horrendous slaughterhouse in the world now raise their accusatory voices against the demoniacal Hitlerite criminals."

From TMOTAM (p. 293).

"Of the 4,299 potential witnesses, only a little over 200 (4.7%) were interrogated by the Soviets,604 but only three of them – 0.07% of all the witnesses – were granted the honor of serving as witnesses from the “Sonderkommando”: Szlama Dragon, Henryk Mandelbaum and Henryk Tauber. Their statements in subsequent depositions to the Poles still constitute the framework of the dominant version of history."

(p. 296)

Therefore, the Soviets carefully hand-picked a small number of self-styled eye-witnesses they believed could further their cause the most.

The Soviets liberated the camp, but as the quote confirms, the Poles took the depositions. Indeed, it was the Poles and subsequently the West Germans, who ran the A-B trials, not the Soviets. Why would the Soviets leave the Poles to run the investigations, when it was their hoax? The Soviet leadership was famous for trusting no one, so why not do it themselves? Friedman was Polish and after liberation was involved in the gathering of evidence for war crimes trials, before he moved to the USA. He is one of many examples of a Pole, over whom the Soviets had no influence, who was a source of the early history of the Holocaust. Revisionists like to blame the Soviets for creating a hoax, that was in fact led by the Polish. But trying to convince people that the Polish could fool the world into believing millions died when that did not happen, is beyond even revisionism!

The obvious reason why so few witnesses gave evidence of what happened inside the Kremas, is because so few, out of all the prisoners at the camp worked there and very few survived, as they had seen what the Nazis were doing. It was normal for workers inside the Kremas to be gassed.

You ignore that the majority of Germans who worked at the camp, were tried in West Germany by Germans and yet they also stated that the Kremas were used for gassings. There was no Soviet influence there and if there was a hoax, Germans giving evidence to Germans in Germany was the perfect time to blow the hoax and embarrass the Soviet Union.