Chronology of the Holocaust

[Nessie]

....

So far as lie witnesses go, I guess there is just no getting through to you bombs, it happened. People lied. Lots of people lied. In specific places, everybody lied. I don't know what to say man.

According to revisionists, 100% of the witnesses who worked inside an AR camp, Chelmno or A-B Krema, lied. List of over 300 names here;

https://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=32920

Witness evidence is not normally perfect, but revisionists think it is when it comes to their lying. They all maintained, for decades, the perfect lie, so that we still do not know what really happened in those places. Not one of them broke ranks, or accidentally blew the lie. Nazi and Jew, German, Ukrainian, Pole, Hungarian, French, Slovakian, Italian and Greek, despite all their differences, colluded and lied.

How unlikely is that?

[Stubble]

....

So far as lie witnesses go, I guess there is just no getting through to you bombs, it happened. People lied. Lots of people lied. In specific places, everybody lied. I don't know what to say man.

According to revisionists, 100% of the witnesses who worked inside an AR camp, Chelmno or A-B Krema, lied. List of over 300 names here;

https://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=32920

Witness evidence is not normally perfect, but revisionists think it is when it comes to their lying. They all maintained, for decades, the perfect lie, so that we still do not know what really happened in those places. Not one of them broke ranks, or accidentally blew the lie. Nazi and Jew, German, Ukrainian, Pole, Hungarian, French, Slovakian, Italian and Greek, despite all their differences, colluded and lied.

How unlikely is that?

I don't know, I'd say to ask Muller, but that time has passed. I'd say to ask Wiesel, but all he ever saw were the lakes and rivers of fire.

Remind me, how many decades after ww2 did Hoss live?

[Stubble]

.....

Finding these missing persons is proving to be more difficult than I had anticipated, I had always assumed they had names, or at least individualized serial numbers. Unfortunately, many of these missing persons (feared dead) are alloted to single group numbers. This makes tracking them literally impossible.

Perhaps if I dig far enough, at some point, I might find a name. Even if I did, and they turned up having been put in a hole in the ground some 20 or 30 years after the event, I'm sure that would be a 1 off or some such.

Of course, this burden has nothing to do with chronology, but, that's not really the point, as apparently we are doing closing remarks, so, I feel your query should be addressed.

....

It is easier to track western Jews, whom the Dutch, French, Belgians etc kept records for. Tracing agencies, using national and Nazi records, created as each nation registered and arrested its Jewish citizens and the Nazis transported and imprisoned them, have been finding relatives since the end of the war. Those countries also know how many of their Jewish citizens returned home. A good example is the 34,000 Dutch Jews transported to Sobibor in 1943, of whom either 18 or 19 returned home in 1945. The postwar displaced persons agencies also kept records.

Tracking people is nowhere near as difficult as you want to pretend. There are all sorts of ancestry companies, cashing in on helping people to track or prove relatives, as they settle compensation and property claims, or people want to know what happened.

In 1945, it was blindingly obvious to all the occupied countries that the Jews arrested by or for the Nazis had plummeted in number. There were no millions of Jews, including nearly a million Western Jews, now living in the east. The Jewish population had collapsed, the exceptions being Denmark and Finland and that was because they were the least cooperative, most successfully protective of their Jewish citizens. They knew where they were in 1945. Every occupied or aligned country admits to its role in the Holocaust and how many of its citizens died as a result. Latvia accepts its citizens assisted the Nazis in shooting its Jewish population. The Dutch recognise that their cooperation in identifying and registering Jews, led to one of the highest death rates.

Chronologically, the records show that millions of Jews disappeared from the document trail inside only 5 camps and millions more had been in ghettos in the east in 1941-2 and by 1944 all of them had closed down. By 1945, the Allies liberating the camps and displaced persons tracing agencies reported only a few hundred thousand Jews.

You do not want to dig into the chronology, because you know that you will find evidence you really do not want to find.

I am currently looking for Hungarian jews. Trust me, it ain't easy. I can't find individual identities for them.

I understand that some groups are better documented than others.

Thank you for the information about Dutch jews that returned home from sobibor. It is unfortunate that they number so few.

[Nessie]

....

So far as lie witnesses go, I guess there is just no getting through to you bombs, it happened. People lied. Lots of people lied. In specific places, everybody lied. I don't know what to say man.

According to revisionists, 100% of the witnesses who worked inside an AR camp, Chelmno or A-B Krema, lied. List of over 300 names here;

https://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=32920

Witness evidence is not normally perfect, but revisionists think it is when it comes to their lying. They all maintained, for decades, the perfect lie, so that we still do not know what really happened in those places. Not one of them broke ranks, or accidentally blew the lie. Nazi and Jew, German, Ukrainian, Pole, Hungarian, French, Slovakian, Italian and Greek, despite all their differences, colluded and lied.

How unlikely is that?

I don't know, I'd say to ask Muller, but that time has passed. I'd say to ask Wiesel, but all he ever saw were the lakes and rivers of fire.

Remind me, how many decades after ww2 did Hoss live?

It is highly unlikely that large, disparate group, where many had good reason not to lie about the use of gas chambers, would all collude and 100% lie and maintain that lie. There is evidence hundreds of thousands of people saw inside the Kremas, and if they were not being gassed, then there are hundreds of thousands of potential witnesses to what did happen. There are none.

Revisionists spend most of their time pointing to flaws in the witness evidence, but then ignore how perfectly they supposedly all lied about gassings. Of course you point to Hoess, but what about Groening? He only came foward late in his life, there is no evidence of any coercion, and still he told a court in Germany that there were gas chambers.

[Nessie]

....

It is easier to track western Jews, whom the Dutch, French, Belgians etc kept records for. Tracing agencies, using national and Nazi records, created as each nation registered and arrested its Jewish citizens and the Nazis transported and imprisoned them, have been finding relatives since the end of the war. Those countries also know how many of their Jewish citizens returned home. A good example is the 34,000 Dutch Jews transported to Sobibor in 1943, of whom either 18 or 19 returned home in 1945. The postwar displaced persons agencies also kept records.

Tracking people is nowhere near as difficult as you want to pretend. There are all sorts of ancestry companies, cashing in on helping people to track or prove relatives, as they settle compensation and property claims, or people want to know what happened.

In 1945, it was blindingly obvious to all the occupied countries that the Jews arrested by or for the Nazis had plummeted in number. There were no millions of Jews, including nearly a million Western Jews, now living in the east. The Jewish population had collapsed, the exceptions being Denmark and Finland and that was because they were the least cooperative, most successfully protective of their Jewish citizens. They knew where they were in 1945. Every occupied or aligned country admits to its role in the Holocaust and how many of its citizens died as a result. Latvia accepts its citizens assisted the Nazis in shooting its Jewish population. The Dutch recognise that their cooperation in identifying and registering Jews, led to one of the highest death rates.

Chronologically, the records show that millions of Jews disappeared from the document trail inside only 5 camps and millions more had been in ghettos in the east in 1941-2 and by 1944 all of them had closed down. By 1945, the Allies liberating the camps and displaced persons tracing agencies reported only a few hundred thousand Jews.

You do not want to dig into the chronology, because you know that you will find evidence you really do not want to find.

I am currently looking for Hungarian jews. Trust me, it ain't easy. I can't find individual identities for them.

I understand that some groups are better documented than others.

Thank you for the information about Dutch jews that returned home from sobibor. It is unfortunate that they number so few.

Hungarian Jewish databases.

https://www.jewishgen.org/databases/hun ... orials.htm
https://www.milev.hu/kutatas-235517.html
https://www.ushmm.org/online/hsv/source ... ceId=39683
https://www.yadvashem.org/press-release ... 03-00.html

Dutch Jewish databases.

https://www.ushmm.org/online/hsv/source ... ceId=27995 (survivor list)
https://holocaustremembrance.com/news/d ... s-unveiled
https://www.ushmm.org/online/hsv/source ... ceId=31949
https://portal.ehri-project.eu/units/us ... -irn516664

General search;

https://arolsen-archives.org/en/search- ... e-archive/
https://www.ushmm.org/remember/resource ... ng-service
https://wienerholocaustlibrary.org/what ... earch/its/

Tracing ancestors is easier now than it has ever been, because of the digitisation of so many records. Many of the records were generated by the Dutch and Hungarian authorities, the police and civil servants tasked with tracing and arresting their Jewish citizens. Why would they lie about that and admit to their participation in the genocide of a group of their citizens?

[bombsaway]

I am curious why you chose to pack up from your thread, but, that's something I suppose I can always ask you later.

Well I was going through this evidence for your sake, but I've come to the conclusion there's noamount of documentation, testimony, and physical evidence that can convince you that orthodox claims are in any way tenable. It's probably not worth your time to study the orthodox narrative. Instead you might concentrate on the "missing" Jews, I could help you with this if you want.

Good lord bombs, I do go through the orthodox stuff. You think I went to the USHMM to get a source everybody could approve of for my health? Then there's the reading, which while painful, I do do.

What I'm saying is there's little point in going through this because it's not going to change your mind about anything, other than perhaps the scale of deception.

[Stubble]

I think the thread should be locked

Also, a tool;

https://www.historyplace.com/worldwar2/ ... eline.html

[Archie]

Ok, this thread has run its course.

If anyone wants to continue with one of the topics raised in this thread, please start new topics with better focus.

On the old forum, there was a rule that there could only be one topic (or at times even one document) per thread. This was to prevent gish-galloping. That rule has not been retained on this version of the forum. The thread author can decide how broad or narrow to make the thread. And you can attempt to combine topics if there's some reason for it. But if a thread ends up being long and meandering, it will likely get locked for sake of organization.