Is this statement from bombs accurate?

[bombsaway]

It passes muster far better than the idea that steam delousing chambers or steam delousing vans turned into homicidal equipment and then bodies burned themselves to ash

Here's a task for people in this thread. Find a direct witness statement (somebody seeing these things first hand, not reporting on rumors) evidencing any of this

This is a strawman version of the orthodox view of what happened.

[Stubble]

It passes muster far better than the idea that steam delousing chambers or steam delousing vans turned into homicidal equipment and then bodies burned themselves to ash

Here's a task for people in this thread. Find a direct witness statement (somebody seeing these things first hand, not reporting on rumors) evidencing any of this

This is a strawman version of the orthodox view of what happened.

That's actually where I am right now on my path and you have given me the first stones on the road with the letter considered euphemism. It makes it tempting to go and ask locals where the bodies are, assuming that would be passed on through oral history, though I lack the financial flexibility to do that kind of thing.

[goyim terror alarm]

That's actually where I am right now on my path and you have given me the first stones on the road with the letter considered euphemism. It makes it tempting to go and ask locals where the bodies are, assuming that would be passed on through oral history, though I lack the financial flexibility to do that kind of thing.

Even if you did have resources for that, it would still be pretty difficult. And even if you succeeded, it would probably be brushed off unless you found physical evidence.

[Stubble]

The goal would be to find mass graves. That does away with the missing jews problem, the gas chambers not actually existing problem and the impossibility of the cremations problem.

All in 1 bang.

It still results in piles of dead people however, which ultimately I would have preferred not been the case.

[HansHill]

Here's a task for people in this thread. Find a direct witness statement (somebody seeing these things first hand, not reporting on rumors) evidencing any of this

This is a strawman version of the orthodox view of what happened.

Want me to keep going?

[bombsaway]

Here's a task for people in this thread. Find a direct witness statement (somebody seeing these things first hand, not reporting on rumors) evidencing any of this

This is a strawman version of the orthodox view of what happened.

Want me to keep going?

Which of these is the first hand account?

Just one account will be sufficient please.

[Stubble]

Here's a task for people in this thread. Find a direct witness statement (somebody seeing these things first hand, not reporting on rumors) evidencing any of this

This is a strawman version of the orthodox view of what happened.

Want me to keep going?

Which of these is the first hand account?

Just one account will be sufficient please.

Wait, are you denying steam chambers?

I can't, I can't even engage this. I just laughed so hard that I spit out my energy drink, you owe me a nickle.

[Stubble]

Want me to keep going?

Which of these is the first hand account?

Just one account will be sufficient please.

Wait, are you denying steam chambers?

I can't, I can't even engage this. I just laughed so hard that I spit out my energy drink, you owe me a nickle.

For the spontaneous human combustion I point to 'a year in treblinka'.

I apologize for misunderstanding your post earlier, I thought you were saying my entertaining the idea of open air camps was just as fallacious as the orthodox narrative and I was under the impression we were treading common ground.

After Mr Hill's post and looking closer, I see I was dead wrong.

[bombsaway]

Wait, are you denying steam chambers?

I can't, I can't even engage this. I just laughed so hard that I spit out my energy drink, you owe me a nickle.

No, what I'm saying is there's nobody that claims to have actually seen it (of people being boiled to death or whatever), it's just rumors or people guessing at the method of execution.

On the other hand the method of gassing is directly attested to.

That's why the steam thing is a strawman. I think it's telling that I asked for first hand accounts, and instead I got rumors.

[HansHill]

No, what I'm saying is there's nobody that claims to have actually seen it (of people being boiled to death or whatever), it's just rumors or people guessing at the method of execution.

On the other hand the method of gassing is directly attested to.

That's why the steam thing is a strawman. I think it's telling that I asked for first hand accounts, and instead I got rumors.

You cannot be serious? You consider it a strawman for revisionists to critically analyse the claims presented at Nuremberg and various other accounts because "nobody saw them first hand"?

Of course nobody saw them first hand, they never happened. That's the whole point, and not a strawman. It's the opposite of a strawman, its the successful dismantling of atrocity propaganda.

[Stubble]

Wait, are you denying steam chambers?

I can't, I can't even engage this. I just laughed so hard that I spit out my energy drink, you owe me a nickle.

No, what I'm saying is there's nobody that claims to have actually seen it (of people being boiled to death or whatever), it's just rumors or people guessing at the method of execution.

On the other hand the method of gassing is directly attested to.

That's why the steam thing is a strawman. I think it's telling that I asked for first hand accounts, and instead I got rumors.

I'll see if I can dig some up, in the meantime, I'll remind you there is sworn testimony regarding underground tunnels between the operation Reinhardt camps to a central body disposal furnace using cars running on tracks and that the floors were supposed to have opened.

There is also the tall one of the electrified floor that doubled as a means of body disposal working as an electric furnace to simultaneously electrocute and then cremate internees.

The tales get pretty silly pretty fast.

If I haven't actually seen sworn testimony, (I was pretty sure the Polish Government in Exile had ascribed names to descriptions and argued strongly it was 1st hand) regarding the steam chambers, forgive my mistake. Keep in mind when looking at the primary documentation it can all get rather muddy rather quickly.

[HansHill]

If I haven't actually seen sworn testimony, (I was pretty sure the Polish Government in Exile had ascribed names to descriptions and argued strongly it was 1st hand) regarding the steam chambers, forgive my mistake. Keep in mind when looking at the primary documentation it can all get rather muddy rather quickly.

Don't be bamboozled by him Mr Stubble, there is plenty: HH Vol 8



The claims "not counting" because they were presented by a Tribunal or Commission is a new pilpul tactic for me, I've never seen that one before. Usually it's the opposite... Usually they discard claims made in isolation by eye-witnesses. Fascinating pilpul to observe.

Final verdict: not a strawman to observe the claims as presented.

[Stubble]

If I haven't actually seen sworn testimony, (I was pretty sure the Polish Government in Exile had ascribed names to descriptions and argued strongly it was 1st hand) regarding the steam chambers, forgive my mistake. Keep in mind when looking at the primary documentation it can all get rather muddy rather quickly.

Don't be bamboozled by him Mr Stubble, there is plenty: HH Vol 8



The claims "not counting" because they were presented by a Tribunal or Commission is a new pilpul tactic for me, I've never seen that one before. Usually it's the opposite... Usually they discard claims made in isolation by eye-witnesses. Fascinating pilpul to observe.

I call this the consolidation of evidence in lieu of a convergence.

Judges went out of their way to exclude and allow 'evidence' based not on any real or actual standard but on a preconceived narrative.

This of course merits a new thread as we are getting derailed here from the core of our current thread.

I was just laughing so incredibly hard about the denial of steam chambers that I couldn't think about the necessity of keeping the thread clutter free.

The early reports and testimony from the operation Reinhardt camps were sheer insanity laden fever dreams and nightmares detached from reality in such a way as to be nothing short of comical upon critical review.

[bombsaway]

If I haven't actually seen sworn testimony, (I was pretty sure the Polish Government in Exile had ascribed names to descriptions and argued strongly it was 1st hand) regarding the steam chambers, forgive my mistake. Keep in mind when looking at the primary documentation it can all get rather muddy rather quickly.

Don't be bamboozled by him Mr Stubble, there is plenty: HH Vol 8



The claims "not counting" because they were presented by a Tribunal or Commission is a new pilpul tactic for me, I've never seen that one before. Usually it's the opposite... Usually they discard claims made in isolation by eye-witnesses. Fascinating pilpul to observe.

Final verdict: not a strawman to observe the claims as presented.

When are historians are doing history, they don't write that based on secondary sources or reports of rumors, where direct testimony exists.

I'm not saying direct testimony for electrocution or whatever method doesn't exist, I just haven't seen it.

Meanwhile there is a copious amount of direct eyewitness testimony pointing to poison gas as the method of killing

Here, I'll do what you have failed to do, and show you the eyewitness testimony

….We unloaded the motor. It was a heavy Russian benzine engine, at least 200 horsepower. we installed the engine on a concrete foundation and set up the connection between the exhaust and the tube.

I then tested the motor. It did not work. I was able to repair the ignition and the valves, and the motor finally started running. The chemist, who I knew from Belzec, entered the gas chamber with measuring instruments to test the concentration of the gas.

Following this, a gassing experiment was carried out. If my memory serves me right, about thirty to forty women were gassed in one gas chamber. The Jewish women were forced to undress in an open place close to the gas chamber, and were driven into the gas chamber by the above mentioned SS members and the Ukrainian auxiliaries. when the women were shut up in the gas chamber I and Bolender set the motor in motion. The motor functioned first in neutral. Both of us stood by the motor and switched from “Neutral” (Freiauspuff) to “Cell” (Zelle), so that the gas was conveyed to the chamber. At the suggestion of the chemist, I fixed the motor on a definite speed so that it was unnecessary henceforth to press on the gas. About ten minutes later the thirty to forty women were dead.

At another, later gassing _ also in autumn 1941 _ Grabner* ordered me to pour Zyklon B into the opening because only one medical orderly had shown up. During a gassing Zyklon B had to be poured through both openings of the gas-chamber room at the same time. This gassing was also a transport of 200-250 Jews, once again men, women and children. As the Zyklon B _ as already mentioned _ was in granular form, it trickled down over the people as it was being poured in. They then started to cry out terribly for they now knew what was happening to them. I did not look through the opening because it had to be closed as soon as the Zyklon B had been poured in. After a few minutes there was silence. After some time had passed, it may have been ten to fifteen minutes, the gas chamber was opened. The dead lay higgledy-piggedly all over the place. It was a dreadful sight.

* Maximillian Grabner, Head of Political Department, Auschwitz

Anton Lauer, Police Reserve Battalion 9
[Quoted in ‘The Good Old Days’ – E. Klee, W. Dressen, V. Riess, The Free Press, NY, 1988, p. 73].
There were two gas-vans in use. I saw them myself. They were driven into the prison yard and the Jews – men, women and children – had to get into the van directly from the cell. I also saw the inside of the gas-vans. They were lined with metal and there was a wooden grille on the floor. The exhaust gases were fed into the inside of the van. I can still today hear the Jews knocking and shouting ‘Dear Germans, let us out’.

Show me something like this for another method of killing if your claim is that is what historians believe.

[HansHill]

Show me something like this for another method of killing if your claim is that is what historians believe.

Mr stubble is right and all of this belongs in a new thread. I invite a mod to clip the thread from any of my posts, into a new thread!

So BA, you are tacitly inferring that the Allied nations brought forth charges against the Nation of Germany they knew were a) unsubstantiated, b) likely to be false, and c) men were hung for this.

That's great progress and I'm glad we can agree on this. Now with all of the above clearly in focus, why should I trust their Zyklon B claims?