The Franke-Gricksch Report

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fireofice
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The Franke-Gricksch Report

Post by fireofice »

The Franke-Gricksch Report is a report supposedly written by Alfred Franke-Gricksch on his trip to Auschwitz. This "report" has a description of a gassing at Auschwitz. There is also a real Franke-Gricksch report that was written on his visit to several of the camps including Auschwitz, with no gassing description for Auschwitz or any other camp. Here they are:

https://holocausthistory.site/00-05-194 ... -birkenau/

http://deathcamps.org/reinhard/frankegricksch.html

Some criticisms of the report include Brian Renk and Carlo Mattogno. Here is a summary of their arguments on the Holocaust Encyclopedia with references to the books and article:

https://holocaustencyclopedia.com/witne ... lfred/292/

The HC blog has spent quite a lot of time defending the contents of the report. You can see all those defenses here:

https://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot ... ranke.html

https://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot ... cksch.html

First of all, the mere fact that there is an actual report and then we have this other side report is suspicious. That in itself indicates one is a forgery. The main defense given against that is that the other report is an "appendix". But there is no indication of that given on the document anywhere. The document also says this:
Sonderaktion ‘Reinhard’.
This special unit deals with the seizure of Jewish property.
And there is no reference to the extermination of Jews. Very interesting he didn't mention any Reinhardt exterminations but in the other one he mentioned gassing. Another inconsistency.

Finally onto the contents:

Two major problems with this document is the execution times and the how the gas chamber is described.
After 300 – 400 people have gathered in this room, the doors are closed, and the containers with the substances are lowered into the pillars from above. As soon as these containers touch the bottom of the column, they develop certain substances that put people to sleep within a minute. A few minutes later, a door opens on the other side, which leads to an elevator.
This section is completely ridiculous. There are too little people in the room. It "puts them to sleep within a minute". Whether literal or figurative for death, this is just completely false. It does not take that quick for everyone in there to either fall asleep or die from the poison. And there was no door "on the other side". This alone is enough to throw the "report" out as unreliable. Pressac amusingly defends the door on the other side with a completely made up scenario that he imagined in his head:
This can be explained only if there was some kind of break in his visit to the crematorium that caused him to lose his bearings somewhat. His error becomes comprehensible if we assume the following itinerary: descent from the outside to the undressing room [Leichenkeller 2], walk through its entire length to the double door at the far end, through this into the short corridor and then the vestibule, from which he took a few steps into the gas chamber [Leichenkeller 1], whose operation was then explained to him. He emerged from the basement via the northern stairway into the yard. then entered the ground floor of the crematorium through the north entrance and was shown into the furnace room. Here the virtues of the Topf furnaces were extolled, probably while he was standing before Furnace 1. Then he took the corpse lift down to the basement, in front of the entrance to the gas chamber (where, not recognizing the vestibule he had passed through some time before, he thought this was ANOTHER door to the gas chamber). He probably went back up to the ground floor on the corpse hoist and left the Krematorium through the main, north, door. The “break” thus occurred when he emerged from the basement by the northern stairway, instead of more logically taking the corpse hoist directly up to the furnace room.
???

OK Pressac. Cool made up story. :lol:

This is what you look like:
conspiracy.jpg
conspiracy.jpg (8.96 KiB) Viewed 3931 times
This is not something you can write off as a "mistake". This is a big whopper that someone would be unlikely to make.

Conclusion: the Franke-Griscksch Report is fake and all the defenses of it are hilarious copes.
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Nessie
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Re: The Franke-Gricksch Report

Post by Nessie »

That is mere opinion, with no evidence of fakery. Fakery is proved by a confession from the creator, witnesses to the fakery and source of the fake, or physical evidence, in this case, the document proven to be a modern creation.
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curioussoul
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Re: The Franke-Gricksch Report

Post by curioussoul »

Nessie wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2025 7:56 am That is mere opinion, with no evidence of fakery.
That's a stretch. The 'report' mentions the Jewish ramp in Birkenau, constructed around May 1944 for the Hungarian Operation, despite supposedly dating from 1943. The Franke-Gricksch Report is used sparingly by orthodox historians because of its questionable provenance and claims.
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Nessie
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Re: The Franke-Gricksch Report

Post by Nessie »

curioussoul wrote: Thu Feb 13, 2025 9:53 am
Nessie wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2025 7:56 am That is mere opinion, with no evidence of fakery.
That's a stretch. The 'report' mentions the Jewish ramp in Birkenau, constructed around May 1944 for the Hungarian Operation, despite supposedly dating from 1943. The Franke-Gricksch Report is used sparingly by orthodox historians because of its questionable provenance and claims.
Please quote the Report to back up your claim.
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TlsMS93
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Re: The Franke-Gricksch Report

Post by TlsMS93 »

Nessie wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2025 7:56 am That is mere opinion, with no evidence of fakery. Fakery is proved by a confession from the creator, witnesses to the fakery and source of the fake, or physical evidence, in this case, the document proven to be a modern creation.
Did the creator of the Protocols confess to the forgery? Did Rauschning confess to his forgeries? How did they determine that this and other literature were forgeries without the confession of their creators? It is too presumptuous to want to determine how things happen. There are no certainties in history, nor in Physics.
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curioussoul
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Re: The Franke-Gricksch Report

Post by curioussoul »

Nessie wrote: Thu Feb 13, 2025 11:38 am
curioussoul wrote: Thu Feb 13, 2025 9:53 am
Nessie wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2025 7:56 am That is mere opinion, with no evidence of fakery.
That's a stretch. The 'report' mentions the Jewish ramp in Birkenau, constructed around May 1944 for the Hungarian Operation, despite supposedly dating from 1943. The Franke-Gricksch Report is used sparingly by orthodox historians because of its questionable provenance and claims.
Please quote the Report to back up your claim.
“The Jews arrive, toward nightfall, in special trains (freight-cars) and are
being routed on special tracks into dedicated enclosed areas of the camp."

(HH#22 p 204, from Pressac).
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Nessie
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Re: The Franke-Gricksch Report

Post by Nessie »

curioussoul wrote: Thu Feb 13, 2025 1:16 pm
Nessie wrote: Thu Feb 13, 2025 11:38 am
curioussoul wrote: Thu Feb 13, 2025 9:53 am

That's a stretch. The 'report' mentions the Jewish ramp in Birkenau, constructed around May 1944 for the Hungarian Operation, despite supposedly dating from 1943. The Franke-Gricksch Report is used sparingly by orthodox historians because of its questionable provenance and claims.
Please quote the Report to back up your claim.
“The Jews arrive, toward nightfall, in special trains (freight-cars) and are
being routed on special tracks into dedicated enclosed areas of the camp."

(HH#22 p 204, from Pressac).
That is a very selective quote with no context. What date was the transport? What area of what camp? Can you link to the source?
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curioussoul
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Re: The Franke-Gricksch Report

Post by curioussoul »

Nessie wrote: Thu Feb 13, 2025 1:52 pm
curioussoul wrote: Thu Feb 13, 2025 1:16 pm
Nessie wrote: Thu Feb 13, 2025 11:38 am

Please quote the Report to back up your claim.
“The Jews arrive, toward nightfall, in special trains (freight-cars) and are
being routed on special tracks into dedicated enclosed areas of the camp."

(HH#22 p 204, from Pressac).
That is a very selective quote with no context. What date was the transport? What area of what camp? Can you link to the source?
It's not selective at all. He supposedly visited the General Government between May 4 and 16, 1943 and toured the gas chambers in Birkenau. The section on Birkenau is not that long and this particular comment is right at the start. Here's a picture from Wikipedia:

Image
Die Juden kommen in Sonderzügen (Güterwagen) gegen Abend and und werden auf besonderen Gleisen in eignes dafür abgegrenzte Bezirke des Lagers gefahren.
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Nessie
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Re: The Franke-Gricksch Report

Post by Nessie »

curioussoul wrote: Thu Feb 13, 2025 2:08 pm
Nessie wrote: Thu Feb 13, 2025 1:52 pm
curioussoul wrote: Thu Feb 13, 2025 1:16 pm

“The Jews arrive, toward nightfall, in special trains (freight-cars) and are
being routed on special tracks into dedicated enclosed areas of the camp."

(HH#22 p 204, from Pressac).
That is a very selective quote with no context. What date was the transport? What area of what camp? Can you link to the source?
It's not selective at all. He supposedly visited the General Government between May 4 and 16, 1943 and toured the gas chambers in Birkenau. ....
https://www.auschwitz.org/en/history/au ... elections/

"The second ramp [the so-called “Alte Judenrampe”] went into operation in 1942. It was located on the grounds of the Oświęcim freight station, between the Auschwitz and Birkenau camps. This is where the majority of the mass transports of Jews arrived between 1942 and May 1944"

Why is he not talking about that ramp?
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fireofice
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Re: The Franke-Gricksch Report

Post by fireofice »

curioussoul wrote: Thu Feb 13, 2025 9:53 am
Nessie wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2025 7:56 am That is mere opinion, with no evidence of fakery.
That's a stretch. The 'report' mentions the Jewish ramp in Birkenau, constructed around May 1944 for the Hungarian Operation, despite supposedly dating from 1943. The Franke-Gricksch Report is used sparingly by orthodox historians because of its questionable provenance and claims.
One response to that I've seen is that the report doesn't say Birkenau. So he could just be referring to the whole area as a "camp".

https://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot ... cksch.html

It seems kind of strange to me to be referring to multiple camps next to each other as one "camp" although it's not completely absurd I suppose. At least not as absurd as the other "explanations" I referred to in the OP. It would be helpful to know if other documents referred to the multiple camps as one camp or not. If so, then that explanation could be used here.
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Nessie
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Re: The Franke-Gricksch Report

Post by Nessie »

fireofice wrote: Fri Feb 14, 2025 5:36 am
curioussoul wrote: Thu Feb 13, 2025 9:53 am
Nessie wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2025 7:56 am That is mere opinion, with no evidence of fakery.
That's a stretch. The 'report' mentions the Jewish ramp in Birkenau, constructed around May 1944 for the Hungarian Operation, despite supposedly dating from 1943. The Franke-Gricksch Report is used sparingly by orthodox historians because of its questionable provenance and claims.
One response to that I've seen is that the report doesn't say Birkenau. So he could just be referring to the whole area as a "camp".

https://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot ... cksch.html

It seems kind of strange to me to be referring to multiple camps next to each other as one "camp" although it's not completely absurd I suppose. At least not as absurd as the other "explanations" I referred to in the OP. It would be helpful to know if other documents referred to the multiple camps as one camp or not. If so, then that explanation could be used here.
But the majority of people refer to it as Auschwitz, as if that is one camp, when it was a complex of camps.
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curioussoul
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Re: The Franke-Gricksch Report

Post by curioussoul »

Nessie wrote: Thu Feb 13, 2025 4:14 pm
curioussoul wrote: Thu Feb 13, 2025 2:08 pm
Nessie wrote: Thu Feb 13, 2025 1:52 pm

That is a very selective quote with no context. What date was the transport? What area of what camp? Can you link to the source?
It's not selective at all. He supposedly visited the General Government between May 4 and 16, 1943 and toured the gas chambers in Birkenau. ....
https://www.auschwitz.org/en/history/au ... elections/

"The second ramp [the so-called “Alte Judenrampe”] went into operation in 1942. It was located on the grounds of the Oświęcim freight station, between the Auschwitz and Birkenau camps. This is where the majority of the mass transports of Jews arrived between 1942 and May 1944"

Why is he not talking about that ramp?
Because that track doesn't go into any of the camps, like the report says. The only track that routed into a camp and passed the "gas chamber" enclosures was the New Jewish Ramp constructed in May 1944.
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Nessie
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Re: The Franke-Gricksch Report

Post by Nessie »

curioussoul wrote: Fri Feb 14, 2025 12:33 pm
Nessie wrote: Thu Feb 13, 2025 4:14 pm
curioussoul wrote: Thu Feb 13, 2025 2:08 pm

It's not selective at all. He supposedly visited the General Government between May 4 and 16, 1943 and toured the gas chambers in Birkenau. ....
https://www.auschwitz.org/en/history/au ... elections/

"The second ramp [the so-called “Alte Judenrampe”] went into operation in 1942. It was located on the grounds of the Oświęcim freight station, between the Auschwitz and Birkenau camps. This is where the majority of the mass transports of Jews arrived between 1942 and May 1944"

Why is he not talking about that ramp?
Because that track doesn't go into any of the camps, like the report says. The only track that routed into a camp and passed the "gas chamber" enclosures was the New Jewish Ramp constructed in May 1944.
He is describing the earlier ramp, not the one that went into Birkenau.
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curioussoul
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Re: The Franke-Gricksch Report

Post by curioussoul »

Nessie wrote: Fri Feb 14, 2025 3:45 pm
curioussoul wrote: Fri Feb 14, 2025 12:33 pm
Nessie wrote: Thu Feb 13, 2025 4:14 pm

https://www.auschwitz.org/en/history/au ... elections/

"The second ramp [the so-called “Alte Judenrampe”] went into operation in 1942. It was located on the grounds of the Oświęcim freight station, between the Auschwitz and Birkenau camps. This is where the majority of the mass transports of Jews arrived between 1942 and May 1944"

Why is he not talking about that ramp?
Because that track doesn't go into any of the camps, like the report says. The only track that routed into a camp and passed the "gas chamber" enclosures was the New Jewish Ramp constructed in May 1944.
He is describing the earlier ramp, not the one that went into Birkenau.
No, he's describing the Birkenau ramp that went into the camp area and past the Crematoria.
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Nessie
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Re: The Franke-Gricksch Report

Post by Nessie »

curioussoul wrote: Fri Feb 14, 2025 10:43 pm
Nessie wrote: Fri Feb 14, 2025 3:45 pm
curioussoul wrote: Fri Feb 14, 2025 12:33 pm

Because that track doesn't go into any of the camps, like the report says. The only track that routed into a camp and passed the "gas chamber" enclosures was the New Jewish Ramp constructed in May 1944.
He is describing the earlier ramp, not the one that went into Birkenau.
No, he's describing the Birkenau ramp that went into the camp area and past the Crematoria.
He said dedicated enclosed area and the ramp at Birkenau was not enclosed. It was open to the rest of the camp.
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