The HC Blog 'Auschwitz Index'

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Nessie
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Re: The HC Blog 'Auschwitz Index'

Post by Nessie »

TlsMS93 wrote: Sun Dec 29, 2024 1:58 pm .....

That 'evacuate' is a "code word" for extermination is argued to be disproven by the word in some cases clearly referring to no-killings, such as the phrase "Evacuation of Jews from Baden and the Palatinate to France" referring to transportation to the concentration camp in Gurs in the French Pyrenees, with Gurs not being one of the alleged "extermination camps". Another example is the phrase "Evacuation of Jews from the Reich area and the Protectorate to Theresienstadt", with Theresienstadt also not being one of the alleged "extermination camps".
Whether a word should be taken literally, or treated as a code word, depends on what is evidenced to have happened. If a document records people being evacuated, and there is evidence they were evacuated, then take the word literally. If there is no evidence they were evacuated, then treat it as a code word.
The revisionists Jürgen Graf, Thomas Kues, and Carlo Mattogno: "The conclusion we may draw from the analysis of the Korherr report is that the “special treatment of Jews” stood only for the deportation of western Jews
Which is why revisionists are constantly asked to evidence millions of Jews in the east, since if millions were not killed, they would be traceable, since the Nazis were meticulous in registering and recording any Jews.
... (those from the Altreich with Sudetenland, Ostmark and Protectorate) and of the eastern Jews (those from Ostgebiete with Bialystok and General Government with Lemberg) to the East, i.e. beyond the confines of the Greater German Reich. The Jews deported within these confines, in particular the roughly (121,428+8,500=) 130,000 Jews sent to Auschwitz, were not subjected to “special treatment.” Neither were the 69,084 Jews deported from the Altreich, Ostmark, Protectorate, and Slovakia to Nisko and the Lublin district formally subjected to it. We say formally, because they acquired the status of “specially treated” (sonderbehandelt) gradually as they were transited from the Polish ghettos through the various camps. This is also true for the 18,004 Jews deported to Theresienstadt and then from that ghetto to Treblinka. In practice there was a double accounting system: one for the Jews evacuated from individual countries, and one for the Jews who were transited through the above camps and who were counted independently of their origin."

So forget special treatment as a euphemism for your atrocity delusions.
That there is evidence of tens of thousands of Jews being used as slave labour and being transported to camps for that purpose, is well evidenced. That leaves millions who went missing from the records, after they arrived at certain camps. If a document records a prisoner movement and their use as labourers as "special" then that it was it means, in that instance. It does not therefore follow that all references to "special" mean the same. At the A-B Kremas, "special" referred to gassings, since that is what is evidenced to have happened.

As for delusions, I leave that to revisionists who believe that the Nazis were secretly accommodating millions of Jews in 1944, whilst they knew they were being accused of killing them.
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Re: The HC Blog 'Auschwitz Index'

Post by curioussoul »

Stubble wrote: Sat Dec 28, 2024 11:57 pm Being generous, nessie may have simply forgotten that part if he was going from memory.
Of course, Nessie would never falsify a quote by leaving out the most important bit...! :roll:
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Re: The HC Blog 'Auschwitz Index'

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curioussoul wrote: Mon Dec 30, 2024 12:42 am
Stubble wrote: Sat Dec 28, 2024 11:57 pm Being generous, nessie may have simply forgotten that part if he was going from memory.
Of course, Nessie would never falsify a quote by leaving out the most important bit...! :roll:
Exactly, that would be more than cherry picking, it would boarder on malicious. Best to assume he forgot.
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Re: The HC Blog 'Auschwitz Index'

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Stubble wrote: Mon Dec 30, 2024 12:47 am
curioussoul wrote: Mon Dec 30, 2024 12:42 am
Stubble wrote: Sat Dec 28, 2024 11:57 pm Being generous, nessie may have simply forgotten that part if he was going from memory.
Of course, Nessie would never falsify a quote by leaving out the most important bit...! :roll:
Exactly, that would be more than cherry picking, it would boarder on malicious. Best to assume he forgot.
One engineer said he saw two corpses being put into an oven, but the oven could not cope. Another engineer said he saw several copses stuffed into an oven and he makes no mention of the oven not being able to cope. A Sonderkommando described how they put multiple corpses in the ovens and also says nothing about the ovens not being able to cope. It would be wrong of you to just cherry-pick the one engineer.
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Re: The HC Blog 'Auschwitz Index'

Post by Stubble »

Dude, you are the one that docked the quote, if you don't like the quote, don't use it. If you want to use this other quote you mentioned from another engineer, why didn't you? The witnesses, well, yea, I understand that one. If someone who doesn't know the layout of the crematoria they were in stated that they shoved multiple corpses into a single muffle, I can see how using that quote might be problematic
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Re: The HC Blog 'Auschwitz Index'

Post by Nessie »

Stubble wrote: Mon Dec 30, 2024 7:48 am Dude, you are the one that docked the quote, if you don't like the quote, don't use it. If you want to use this other quote you mentioned from another engineer, why didn't you? The witnesses, well, yea, I understand that one. If someone who doesn't know the layout of the crematoria they were in stated that they shoved multiple corpses into a single muffle, I can see how using that quote might be problematic
Everyone quotes the parts relevant to what they are saying. What the witness said next was not relevant to the point I was making.

Why do you think that one of the engineers responsible for the design, does not know the layout of the Krema?
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Re: The HC Blog 'Auschwitz Index'

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Re read what I wrote, I was referring to a crematorium worker, a sonderkommando, specifically Filip Müller whose drawing of the crematoria at II and III is not congruent with the layout of the facility.

I'd mention the carts, opening floors etc, but, not knowing the layout should be sufficient to explain why you probably didn't want to quote him about 5 bodies per muffle.

Image

(Plan provided by him to Vrba)
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Re: The HC Blog 'Auschwitz Index'

Post by Nessie »

Stubble wrote: Mon Dec 30, 2024 8:18 am Re read what I wrote, I was referring to a crematorium worker, a sonderkommando, specifically Filip Müller whose drawing of the crematoria at II and III is not congruent with the layout of the facility.

I'd mention the carts, opening floors etc, but, not knowing the layout should be sufficient to explain why you probably didn't want to quote him about 5 bodies per muffle.

Image

(Plan provided by him to Vrba)
Can you link to your source please?

Revisionists constantly claim that witness inaccuracy is evidence to prove lying. Can you link me to evidence to prove that when someone is inaccurate, such as when drawing a plan, that is evidence to prove they lied?
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Re: The HC Blog 'Auschwitz Index'

Post by Stubble »

Nessie wrote: Mon Dec 30, 2024 9:13 am
Stubble wrote: Mon Dec 30, 2024 8:18 am Re read what I wrote, I was referring to a crematorium worker, a sonderkommando, specifically Filip Müller whose drawing of the crematoria at II and III is not congruent with the layout of the facility.

I'd mention the carts, opening floors etc, but, not knowing the layout should be sufficient to explain why you probably didn't want to quote him about 5 bodies per muffle.

Image

(Plan provided by him to Vrba)
Can you link to your source please?

Revisionists constantly claim that witness inaccuracy is evidence to prove lying. Can you link me to evidence to prove that when someone is inaccurate, such as when drawing a plan, that is evidence to prove they lied?
Wikipedia work for ya?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vrba%E2 ... ler_report

There is also some testimony from Vrba on the stand.
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Re: The HC Blog 'Auschwitz Index'

Post by Nessie »

Stubble wrote: Mon Dec 30, 2024 9:22 am
Nessie wrote: Mon Dec 30, 2024 9:13 am
Stubble wrote: Mon Dec 30, 2024 8:18 am Re read what I wrote, I was referring to a crematorium worker, a sonderkommando, specifically Filip Müller whose drawing of the crematoria at II and III is not congruent with the layout of the facility.

I'd mention the carts, opening floors etc, but, not knowing the layout should be sufficient to explain why you probably didn't want to quote him about 5 bodies per muffle.

Image

(Plan provided by him to Vrba)
Can you link to your source please?

Revisionists constantly claim that witness inaccuracy is evidence to prove lying. Can you link me to evidence to prove that when someone is inaccurate, such as when drawing a plan, that is evidence to prove they lied?
Wikipedia work for ya?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vrba%E2 ... ler_report

There is also some testimony from Vrba on the stand.
That does not prove Muller, a Slovakian, drew that plan and its English annotations.
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Re: The HC Blog 'Auschwitz Index'

Post by Stubble »

Nessie wrote: Mon Dec 30, 2024 9:39 am
Stubble wrote: Mon Dec 30, 2024 9:22 am
Nessie wrote: Mon Dec 30, 2024 9:13 am

Can you link to your source please?

Revisionists constantly claim that witness inaccuracy is evidence to prove lying. Can you link me to evidence to prove that when someone is inaccurate, such as when drawing a plan, that is evidence to prove they lied?
Wikipedia work for ya?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vrba%E2 ... ler_report

There is also some testimony from Vrba on the stand.
That does not prove Muller, a Slovakian, drew that plan and its English annotations.
The report contains sketches and information about the layout of the gas chambers, describing the large room where victims were made to undress before being pushed into the gas chambers, as well as the attached crematoriums. In a deposition for the trial of Adolf Eichmann in 1961, and in his book I Cannot Forgive (1964), Vrba said that he and Wetzler obtained the information about the gas chambers and crematoria from the Sonderkommando Filip Müller and his colleagues, who worked there. Müller confirmed Vrba's story in his Eyewitness Auschwitz (1979).[14] The report offered a description of the camp's four crematoria.[a]

Also, perhaps I misphrased when I said provided. Obviously the fellow provided the information, not the drawing.
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Re: The HC Blog 'Auschwitz Index'

Post by Nessie »

You said;
Stubble wrote: Mon Dec 30, 2024 8:18 am ....Filip Müller whose drawing of the crematoria at II and III is not congruent with the layout of the facility.
You have yet to evidence he drew this, which is clearly marked "rough ground plan" in English, not Slovakian.

Image

You are clearly trying to find excuses to dismiss witnesses who give evidence you do not want to believe.
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Re: The HC Blog 'Auschwitz Index'

Post by Stubble »

I misspoke.

Drawing based off his description. If you are describing your workplace to somebody, can you tell them how many cash registers you have? Like, if you have 5 cash registers, can you remember that.

I'm not even talking about location, just number.
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Re: The HC Blog 'Auschwitz Index'

Post by Nessie »

Stubble wrote: Mon Dec 30, 2024 3:14 pm I misspoke.

Drawing based off his description. If you are describing your workplace to somebody, can you tell them how many cash registers you have? Like, if you have 5 cash registers, can you remember that.

I'm not even talking about location, just number.
The entire revisionist argument about all the witnesses, is that their descriptions do not "congruent" with what they think could work, therefore all the witnesses lied.

Do you think it is credible to claim a witness is lying, without having read what they said?
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Re: The HC Blog 'Auschwitz Index'

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Did all the witnesses at the Salem witch trials lie? How can you say they did if you haven't read their testimony?

So far as this instance is concerned, I know more about this fellow than I ever wanted to in my life. I have read his illusions to cannibalism by the Germans with the 'tinning of meat' after 'selection' by the doctors. Bleeding women into pails to provide blood for transfusions at the front before throwing them half conscious into burning pits or running cremation ovens. His description of the gassing process.

That you believe the ridiculous accounts does not mean I should take them as gospel. The more I refresh my memory with these tales, the worse it gets. It is like rereading night in retrospect knowing what I know now. The stories are ridiculous.

The guy couldn't even accurately tell Vrba how many furnaces there were in crematoria 2 and crematoria 3. FFS.
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