New Debunking Video [anti-revisionist]

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mikemike00
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New Debunking Video [anti-revisionist]

Post by mikemike00 »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHzfFHmc32I

Here are the points the video brings up:
  • Quote from Mein Kampf Vol 1. Chapter 12: "The nationalization of the masses can be successfully achieved only if, in the positive struggle to win the soul of the people, those who spread the international poison among them are exterminated." (Dalton's translation renders "exterminated" as "rooted out")
  • Hitler's Reichstag speech on January 30th, 1939 where he says if Jews started another world war the result would be the "annhilation of the Jewish race in Europe."
  • Aktion T4: September 1st, 1939 letter by Hitler authorizing "Gnadentod" for hospital patients. He goes on to talk about gas vans and Becker's letter to Rauff May 16th, 1942.
  • Quotes from IHR's Mark Weber:
    • "No informed person disputes that Europe's Jews did, in fact, suffer a great catastrophe during the Second World War. Millions were forced from their homes and deported to brutal internment in crowded ghettos and camps. Jewish communities across Central and Eastern Europe, large and small, were wiped out. Millions lost their lives. When the war ended in 1945, most of the Jews of Germany, Poland, the Netherlands and other countries were gone..."
    • "A major reason for the lack of success in persuading people that conventional Holocaust accounts are fraudulent or exaggerated is that - as revisionists acknowledge - Jews in Europe were, in fact, singled out during the war years for especially severe treatment. This was confirmed, for example, by German propaganda minister Joseph Goebbels in these confidential entries in his wartime diary."
  • Quotes from Goebbels diary:
    • Feb 14th, 1942: "The Fuhrer once again expresses his resolve ruthlessly to clear the Jews out of Europe. There must be no squeamish sentimentalism about it. The Jews have deserved the catastrophe that they are now experiencing. Their destruction will go hand in hand with the destruction of our enemies. We must hasten this process with cold ruthlessness."
    • March 27th, 1942: "The Jews are now being deported to the East from the General government [Poland], starting around Lublin. The procedure is a pretty barbaric one and not to be described here more definitely, and there's not much left of the Jews."
    • April 29th, 1942: "Short shrift is being made of the Jews in all eastern occupied territories. Tens of thousands of them are being wiped out."
  • Quotes from Himmler:
    • October 1943, Himmler's Posen speech: "I am now referring to the evacuation of the Jews, the extermination of the Jewish people. It's one of those things that is easily said: 'The Jewish people are being exterminated', says every party member, 'this is very obvious, it's in our program, elimination of the Jews, extermination, we're doing it, hah, a small matter.'"
    • He also brings up "die Ausrottung des jüdischen Volkes."
    • 1944 speech: "This concerns especially the Jewish women and children - to allow the children to grow into the avengers who will then murder our children and our grandchildren. That would have been cowardly."
  • He brings up blueprints depicting "the use of gas chambers at Auschwitz"
  • He brings up the Bischoff letter which he says details how the crematoriums could burn 4,756 people per day."
  • A memo for a steel door with a mesh peephole.
  • Nuremberg trials (which he says "and they did not later say they were tortured into giving false confessions") and testimony from holocaust survivors, specifically the Sonderkommandos.
  • His final point is that scholars such as Hilberg, Dawidowicz, and Benz all arrived at approximately the same six million figure.
Thoughts?
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Archie
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Re: New Debunking Video [anti-revisionist]

Post by Archie »

The channel is sponsored by Catholic Answers which is apparently a conservative Catholic group.

I didn't watch much of it, but frankly based on your summary this guy seems like a noob/lightweight. I would not be suprised if he's reading a script written by someone else. The channel doesn't seem to focus on history, WWII, the holocaust, etc., so the arguments here are expectedly rudimentary.

Quoting Mein Kampf as proof of the Holocaust only makes sense if you are a hardcore intentionalist, but that position is so at odds with the documentary record that few people seem to endorse it nowadays. So if you make this argument, you reveal yourself to be way out-of-date and unfamiliar with the current literature. The common theory in modern circles is that the extermination plan developed gradually during the war. MK was published in 1925.

Hitler's January 1939 speech is also "too early" to be proof. And the fact that it was delivered in public does not square with the claim that the Holocaust was kept secret. Nobody at the time seriously interpreted it to mean Hitler was going to literally murder all of the Jews. It was only later that such an interpretation was applied to it.

I won't go point by point on everything else but a lot of these like Posen speech and Mar 1942 Goebbels diary are the most common go-to "proofs" among Holocaust promoters. These have been much discussed.

The blueprints are not incriminating. They are a godsend to revisionists. When Faurisson first saw them in the mid 1970s (when they were not yet widely available), he was very excited since they totally undermine the traditional story. The story was that the "gas chambers" at Birkenau were sophisticated industrial mass gassing facilities. The blueprints show they were crematoria with morgues. Even Pressac admitted that they were not obviously designed as gas chambers to begin with. He was forced to argue that the Germans converted them into gas chambers. During construction. In 1943!
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fireofice
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Re: New Debunking Video [anti-revisionist]

Post by fireofice »

It's baffling how he used aerial photos of Auschwitz as evidence when that's literally one of the best (of several) pieces of evidence against the holocaust. Although he's not the only one to do that.

Other things he brings up is how it's immoral to "deny the holocaust" or "deny genocides". So we just have to accept any claim of genocide ever? OK Trent, you committed genocide. Now based on my mere claim, we have to accept it and anyone who doesn't is immoral for "denying genocide". Sounds absurd, right? Because it is. I saw a joke somewhere that went "I say we're both holocaust deniers, I just go one holocaust further". The joke is based on an atheist saying that went "we're both atheists, I just go one god further" in reference to the beliefs in many gods throughout history, and also that you could make up an infinite number of genocides which any rational person would have to deny. So clearly he doesn't actually believe in this.

Btw, Trent as an ethnic Jew, I wonder if he believes in the Gaza genocide by Israel? Israel has been accused of it. Better believe it or else you're immoral, Trent.
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Archie
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Re: New Debunking Video [anti-revisionist]

Post by Archie »

fireofice wrote: Thu Oct 10, 2024 9:22 am It's baffling how he used aerial photos of Auschwitz as evidence when that's literally one of the best (of several) pieces of evidence against the holocaust. Although he's not the only one to do that.

Other things he brings up is how it's immoral to "deny the holocaust" or "deny genocides". So we just have to accept any claim of genocide ever? OK Trent, you committed genocide. Now based on my mere claim, we have to accept it and anyone who doesn't is immoral for "denying genocide". Sounds absurd, right? Because it is. I saw a joke somewhere that went "I say we're both holocaust deniers, I just go one holocaust further". The joke is based on an atheist saying that went "we're both atheists, I just go one god further" in reference to the beliefs in many gods throughout history, and also that you could make up an infinite number of genocides which any rational person would have to deny. So clearly he doesn't actually believe in this.

Btw, Trent as an ethnic Jew, I wonder if he believes in the Gaza genocide by Israel? Israel has been accused of it. Better believe it or else you're immoral, Trent.
On a related note, consider the "Anti-Defamation League." Jews are hypersensitive about accusations against them and claim the full right to defend themselves. But they don't afford that right to others.

Criticizing Jews - "Defamation"
Defending yourself when Jews defame you - "Denier!"

See how that works?

https://archive.codohforum.com/20230609 ... 31&t=13916
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fireofice
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Re: New Debunking Video [anti-revisionist]

Post by fireofice »

E. Michael Jones responded to Trent Horn here:

https://culturewars.com/videos/emj-live ... nial-a-sin

Tbh I think his disputing of the factual arguments Trent made in regards to the holocaust in particular is pretty weak. More seasoned revisionists would have responded a lot better.
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fireofice
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Re: New Debunking Video [anti-revisionist]

Post by fireofice »

I did some digging into some of Trent's other videos, and it turns out that he's a hypocrite.

A while ago there was a video put out called "Satan's Guide to the Bible" which criticized the bible based on mainstream biblical scholarship.



Trent responded to the video here:



Part of the original video criticized the bible for condoning Israelites committing genocide in various narratives. They say that it didn't actually happen, but that it still poses a problem for the morality of the bible. In Trent's response at about 14 minutes in, he says that these genocidal passages in the bible are hyperbole.

Wait a second, why can't we say that the various things he pointed to the Nazis saying were also hyperbole? Hyperbole is still used in the modern era, so there's no reason to a priori rule it out. But no, he presents these things as solid proof that the holocaust happened. But when the bible says it, it's hyperbole. He also said that since the narrative shows these groups still existing, that there was no genocide. OK I guess the fact that Jews still existed after the war means the holocaust didn't happen? Very interesting standards, Trent.

Also, what happened to the immorality of denying genocide? You said it was indecent to do so and that it denies the victims their dignity. Are you now being indecent denying the Canaanites, Amalekites, and others their dignity of being victims of genocide at the hands of the Israelites? How immoral of you Trent, denying a genocide like that. :lol:
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Hektor
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Re: New Debunking Video [anti-revisionist]

Post by Hektor »

If they actually had a case they wouldn't waste their time trying to debunk Revisionists. Yet that's all they do.
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