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[Nessie]

Callafangers on the trials;

viewtopic.php?p=24537#p24537

Needless to say, a very "wide net" was being cast. And those being interrogated felt very much a need to say something which could be of use to the interrogators:

"Perhaps only in Germany [as opposed to France, Netherlands] can counsel be effective in advising an accused, although even there counsel may not be present at the first crucial interrogations conducted by the police but may only consult with his client beforehand. Thus, especially when being interrogated by police and prosecuting officials, the average suspect is subject to a great deal of pressure, some legal—some not. In addition, it will be made clear to him, whether at the trial or before, that his silence will be unfavorably interpreted."

Many of the SS AR and A-B camp staff, put on trial by German prosecutors, complained about their treatment when they were arrested and interrogated by Allied military investigators. The trials in West Germany presented an opportunity for the ex-SS to exonerate themselves. But, instead of evidencing those places did not have gas chambers, they used defences that reduced their involvement in, and responsibility for, what happened.

These above conditions do not happen in a vacuum -- they are within the broader context of the patterns within and between contemporary and preceding postwar trials.

The problem of testimony is acknowledged by establishment historian Hilary Earl, as quoted by Mattogno in 'Einsatzgruppen', p. 81:

"After all, criminal trials are adversarial, and testimony is most frequently given in an attempt to establish legal exculpation [or incrimination], not to document historical truth. By their very nature, criminal trials can act as strong impediments to the attainment of historical truth, when by excluding or altering historical facts a defendant can demonstrate innocence or a prosecutor guilt."

The trials in West Germany were not adversarial, they were inquisitorial. The accused had the opportunity to blow the hoax and reveal evidence as to what did take place inside those camps. It would have been a huge propaganda coup, for West Germans to reveal a Soviet hoax and produce evidence of millions of Jews surviving having been to the so-called death camps.

All the so-called revisionists here do, is allege mass lying. They cannot produce evidence to prove the lie. That is what those accused of mass gassings would need, to prove there were no such gassings. Evidence. Those Nazis knew there was no such evidence, hence they used other defences.

[Nessie]

Stubble only touches on the scale of the conspiracy alleged by Holocaust denier/revisionists;

viewtopic.php?p=24539#p24539

Joe, it is about how the table got set, not who ate the meal. The various pieces were not put on the table by jews alone, just look at Buchenwald or listen to the descriptions of Belsen. There were literal armies of propagandists and it was the Soviet that 'made it stick'. You can argue that the Poles involved weren't Soviets, then, the judge that did a lot of the streamlining comes into play.

Regardless, it was a group effort, and the jew didn't act alone. You can argue others were forced i guess, but, Noone forced the US to make the claims at Dachau, or the Soviet to make the claims at Majdanek. It was expedient and useful for them, and, it helped form a Casus Belli after Potsdam.

Adolf Hitler was right about the motivations for the Western Allies, ultimately, they couldn't just go tell their people that we had annihilated Germany because they were setting a 'bad example' though.

How has it been expedient and useful for every European country to admit to having citizens and governments that variously cooperated with the Nazis in enforcing the Nuremberg Race Laws, identifying, arresting, transporting and even killing Jews?

Where is the advantage to the Dutch, in their admission to having cooperated so extensively, they had one of the highest death rates for their Jewish citizens?

It was a major propaganda coup for the Poles, to get the Soviets to admit to the Katyn Massacre, and it would have been the same to get them to admit to faking the AR camps as death camps.

How is there any advantage to Latvia and Lithuania, in their acceptance that citizens joined with the EG shooting Jews? Hardly any Jews live in those countries now, and anti-Semitism is still strong, so why have they not blown the hoax?

It was expedient and useful for the West and Soviets to rehabilitate Germany, now split and on the front line of the Cold War, rather than have to deal with the fall out over the Holocaust. Rehabilitation would have been so much easier, if the mass murders were revealed as hoaxes, by the other side.

Why, after all that, do Denmark and Finland get exemptions and are able to evidence the mass survival of the vast majority of their Jewish citizens, as they stood up to the Nazis? Why would other countries not want that?

[Stubble]

They lost, you dumb fuck, and they capitulated. Under the Soviet, it was a good way to get elected, and under denazification, it was a good way to show 'purity' basically 'I'm not nazi, nazi = bad'.

How are you this deaf, and blind? Oh how i wish you were also a mute.

[Nessie]

They lost, you dumb fuck, and they capitulated. Under the Soviet, it was a good way to get elected, and under denazification, it was a good way to show 'purity' basically 'I'm not nazi, nazi = bad'.

How are you this deaf, and blind? Oh how i wish you were also a mute.

France did not lose. The French see themselves as an Allie that was finally victorious. The Soviets had no influence over them. So, why has every French government admitted to their role and the collaboration of many French people, in the Holocaust?

[Stubble]

They lost twice. Once to the Germans, once to the allies...

[Nessie]

They lost twice. Once to the Germans, once to the allies...

You have failed to provide any evidence that the French hoaxed their role in the Holocaust.

[Stubble]

You have failed to evidence that there were 56 full Olympic Swimming pools at Treblinka. You still say it though. Jackass.

[Nessie]

Callafangers is unable to evidence a claim;

viewtopic.php?p=18407#p18407

Regarding the "quiet part out loud" others have noted:

Archie wrote:
[Pressac] notes that the dates of death and cremation on the urns often indicate a lag of four or five days, during which time the bodies would have been in the morgues.

I am reminded of Nessie's complaints that an affirmed history of "what really happened" at the crematories and morgues of Auschwitz/Birkenau is not often described by revisionists.

Well, Nessie: there ya' go.

The hypothesis is that the Kremas were corpse stores 1943-4, based on a lag between death and cremation on some urns. No evidence has been provided to prove that is what happened.

[Nessie]

You have failed to evidence that there were 56 full Olympic Swimming pools at Treblinka. You still say it though. Jackass.

The evidence comes from the 1945 Polish survey, that recorded part of the camp, that covered 2 hectares, where cremated remains were found at one point to be 7m deep. That gives a potential volume the equivalent to 56 Olympic sized pools, inside which the main mass graves were located. It is the same area that the 2011 geophysical survey found 5 pits in a row. You just pretend that is not evidence.

[Keen]

You have failed to evidence that there were 56 full Olympic Swimming pools at Treblinka. You still say it though. Jackass.

The evidence comes from the 1945 Polish survey, that recorded part of the camp, that covered 2 hectares, where cremated remains were found at one point to be 7m deep. That gives a potential volume the equivalent to 56 Olympic sized pools, inside which the main mass graves were located. It is the same area that the 2011 geophysical survey found 5 pits in a row. You just pretend that is not evidence.

Your so-called "evidence" is nothing but unsubstantiated allegations.

Of the 6.753 million pounds of alleged bone fragments, you are unable to prove the existence of so-much-as one pound.

Of the 29.6 million alleged teeth, you are unable to prove the existence of so-much-as one.

Of the tens of thousands of alleged skeletons, you are unable to prove the existence of so-much as one.

Of the 21 different alleged "huge mass graves" allegedly containing some combination of the human remains mentioned above, you are unable to prove the existence of so-much-as one.

You have nothing but lies.

NOTHING.

You are a mentally ill pathological liar, just like all your fellow cowardly HC cult members.

[Keen]

How are you this deaf, and blind?

Actually it's neither.

It's a mentally ill pathological liar that has no shame, courage, integrity or character.

Just like all its fellow cowardly HC cult members.

Rather than arguing with it, you should simply refer it back to the following each time it posts:

Nesserto:

My standard of proof is the same as historians or the courts use, whereby an event is proven when there is sufficient corroborating verified evidence to prove it.

A mass grave is defined as a grave containing multiple human corpses, or the remains of multiple people.

Nessie, how many actual mass graves did CSC actually prove actually exist within the boundary of the Treblinka II camp?

Nessie's answer:

12 - G32, G29, G1, G44, G4, G38, G36, G50, G51, G52, G53, G54.

Only a determined denier, who has lost grip on reality, will pretend that the corroborating evidence from multiple witnesses who describe mass graves, the aerial photo that shows disturbed ground and rectangular outlines and the site surveys that identified disturbed ground and pits in the areas of the camp that the witnesses said contained the mass graves, is not evidence to prove mass graves.

You doubt and deny the evidence I produce.

I am both a trained historian and police officer.

The Nazis were not trying to magically disappear the corpses and the graves.

ALL the mass graves dug by the Nazis, AND the corpses they cremated, are still at the AR camps.

Mass graves are proven. By all normal standards of evidencing, they are proven.

Proof, from multiple sources of corroborating evidence, has been produced.

You ignore corroboration. You deny the gathered evidence.

Claiming that multiple pits found by geophysics in the same part of the camp that witnesses state the main mass graves were dug, is not corroborating evidence to prove mass graves, is denial of reality.

I can point to them in the ground.

I have never had any issue with accepting the burden of proof.

and ask it the following questions:

5 - In total, how many single, disconnected human teeth have been tangibly discovered within the 21 alleged Treblinka II graves / cremation pits in question: _?_.

10 - List all of the Treblinka II graves / cremation pits in question that you can conclusively prove actually exist and currently contain at least an iota of human remains: _?_.

15 - List all of the Treblinka II graves / cremation pits in question that you can conclusively prove currently contain the remains of at least 2 human beings: _?_.

20 - List all of the Treblinka II graves / cremation pits in question that you can conclusively prove currently contain the remains of at least 21 human beings: _?_.

25 - Of the 21 alleged Treblinka II graves / cremation pits in question - the one that you can conclusively prove currently contains the most human remains is number: _?_.

as well as these:

#1: When you use the word "corroboration", do you mean "confirm" or "support"?

#2: When you use the word "prove" in alleging that 12 actual "huge mass graves" have actually been proven to actually exist within the boundary of the Treblinka II camp (G32, G29, G1, G44, G4, G38, G36, G50, G51, G52, G53, G54), which of the following standards of proof are you alleging:

Arranged from lowest to highest, the standards of proof in American law follow a rough hierarchy:

Reasonable suspicion: Enough specific facts to justify a brief police stop, but well short of what’s needed for an arrest or a search warrant.

Probable cause: A fair probability that a crime occurred or evidence will be found, sufficient for an arrest or warrant.

Substantial evidence: Enough that a reasonable person could accept it as adequate, used when courts review agency decisions.

Preponderance of the evidence: More likely than not, the default for most civil lawsuits.

Clear and convincing evidence: Highly probable, reserved for civil matters with serious consequences like fraud claims or termination of parental rights.

Beyond a reasonable doubt: Firm conviction of guilt, required for all criminal convictions.

Absolute certainty: A state of knowledge or proof so complete that there is no possibility of doubt or uncertainty

And don't forget to remind the mentally ill POS about this:

Is it - True. - or - False. - that; Non-nefarious diggings for such things as garbage pits, cellars, wells, latrines, septic pits, etc. - were dug at Treblinka II - ??

nesserto's answer: True

and this:

nesserto:

Geophysics scientifically and conclusively proves that there are pits, G32, G29, G1, G44, G4, G38, G36, G50, G51, G52, G53, G54 and that they exist. But it does not prove that those pits contain human remains.

And this:

CSC:

Without intrusive activity it is not possible to conclusively determine the nature of these pits.

and this:

If the mentally ill pathologically lying POS alleges that 12 of the 21 fraudulently alleged "huge mass graves" have been proven to exist within the boundary of the Treblinka II camp, then it is also tacitly admitting that 9 of the 21 have not been proven to exist.

[Nessie]

Callafangers shows he does have at least some understanding that opinion on plausibility has no evidential value;

viewtopic.php?p=24572#p24572

Yes, your usual MO -- mention you find something "implausible" as though your opinion is likely to be shared by most.

He then goes on to suggest all Germans are cowards who would not come forward with evidence to prove the Ar camps were not death camps and millions of Jews were still alive in 1944-5;

These were a defeated, frightened people just wanting to move on with their lives. They said what they needed to appease the bloodthirsty victors and the puppet government installed at war's end. End of story

That does not explain or evidence why the French, Dutch or any other liberated country, admitted that some of its citizens assisted the Nazis with the Holocaust.

[Keen]

Callafangers... goes on to suggest all Germans are cowards who would not come forward with evidence to prove the Ar camps were not death camps and millions of Jews were still alive in 1944-5;

Yet again the mentally ill pathological liar spews its most recent favorite logical fallacy.

Now back to our regularly scheduled program:

Nesserto:

My standard of proof is the same as historians or the courts use, whereby an event is proven when there is sufficient corroborating verified evidence to prove it.

A mass grave is defined as a grave containing multiple human corpses, or the remains of multiple people.

Nessie, how many actual mass graves did CSC actually prove actually exist within the boundary of the Treblinka II camp?

Nessie's answer:

12 - G32, G29, G1, G44, G4, G38, G36, G50, G51, G52, G53, G54.

Only a determined denier, who has lost grip on reality, will pretend that the corroborating evidence from multiple witnesses who describe mass graves, the aerial photo that shows disturbed ground and rectangular outlines and the site surveys that identified disturbed ground and pits in the areas of the camp that the witnesses said contained the mass graves, is not evidence to prove mass graves.

You doubt and deny the evidence I produce.

I am both a trained historian and police officer.

The Nazis were not trying to magically disappear the corpses and the graves.

ALL the mass graves dug by the Nazis, AND the corpses they cremated, are still at the AR camps.

Mass graves are proven. By all normal standards of evidencing, they are proven.

Proof, from multiple sources of corroborating evidence, has been produced.

You ignore corroboration. You deny the gathered evidence.

Claiming that multiple pits found by geophysics in the same part of the camp that witnesses state the main mass graves were dug, is not corroborating evidence to prove mass graves, is denial of reality.

I can point to them in the ground.

I have never had any issue with accepting the burden of proof.

and ask it the following questions:

5 - In total, how many single, disconnected human teeth have been tangibly discovered within the 21 alleged Treblinka II graves / cremation pits in question: _?_.

10 - List all of the Treblinka II graves / cremation pits in question that you can conclusively prove actually exist and currently contain at least an iota of human remains: _?_.

15 - List all of the Treblinka II graves / cremation pits in question that you can conclusively prove currently contain the remains of at least 2 human beings: _?_.

20 - List all of the Treblinka II graves / cremation pits in question that you can conclusively prove currently contain the remains of at least 21 human beings: _?_.

25 - Of the 21 alleged Treblinka II graves / cremation pits in question - the one that you can conclusively prove currently contains the most human remains is number: _?_.

as well as these:

#1: When you use the word "corroboration", do you mean "confirm" or "support"?

#2: When you use the word "prove" in alleging that 12 actual "huge mass graves" have actually been proven to actually exist within the boundary of the Treblinka II camp (G32, G29, G1, G44, G4, G38, G36, G50, G51, G52, G53, G54), which of the following standards of proof are you alleging:

Arranged from lowest to highest, the standards of proof in American law follow a rough hierarchy:

Reasonable suspicion: Enough specific facts to justify a brief police stop, but well short of what’s needed for an arrest or a search warrant.

Probable cause: A fair probability that a crime occurred or evidence will be found, sufficient for an arrest or warrant.

Substantial evidence: Enough that a reasonable person could accept it as adequate, used when courts review agency decisions.

Preponderance of the evidence: More likely than not, the default for most civil lawsuits.

Clear and convincing evidence: Highly probable, reserved for civil matters with serious consequences like fraud claims or termination of parental rights.

Beyond a reasonable doubt: Firm conviction of guilt, required for all criminal convictions.

Absolute certainty: A state of knowledge or proof so complete that there is no possibility of doubt or uncertainty

And don't forget to remind the mentally ill POS about this:

Is it - True. - or - False. - that; Non-nefarious diggings for such things as garbage pits, cellars, wells, latrines, septic pits, etc. - were dug at Treblinka II - ??

nesserto's answer: True

and this:

nesserto:

Geophysics scientifically and conclusively proves that there are pits, G32, G29, G1, G44, G4, G38, G36, G50, G51, G52, G53, G54 and that they exist. But it does not prove that those pits contain human remains.

And this:

CSC:

Without intrusive activity it is not possible to conclusively determine the nature of these pits.

and this:

If the mentally ill pathologically lying POS alleges that 12 of the 21 fraudulently alleged "huge mass graves" have been proven to exist within the boundary of the Treblinka II camp, then it is also tacitly admitting that 9 of the 21 have not been proven to exist.

[Keen]

Let's add Mr. Gerdes' "thisisaboutscience" webpage info about which fraudulently alleged "huge mass graves" are which here to make sure everyone is on the same page.

Here are 13 of the 15 fraudulently alleged "huge mass graves" of Treblinka II - as alleged by the charlatan Caroline Sturdy Colls (which she labels as "possible grave sites"):

https://postimg.cc/9D0RYk47


And here are 12 of the 15 fraudulently alleged "huge mass graves" of Treblinka II - as alleged by the charlatan Caroline Sturdy Colls (which she labels as "probable burial / cremation pits"):

https://postimg.cc/0zKDfXjr


And here are the 15 fraudulently alleged "huge mass graves" of Treblinka II - as alleged by the charlatan Caroline Sturdy Colls (which she labels in various ways):

https://postimg.cc/hz21wzBG


And here is how Colls' numbers correspond to THE HOLOCAUST ARCHAEOLOGY HOAX CHALLENGE

( http://thisisaboutscience.com/ ) numbering system:

CSC G50 = The H.A.H.C. "huge mass grave" #1/86

CSC G54 = The H.A.H.C. "huge mass grave" #2/87

CSC G53 = The H.A.H.C. "huge mass grave" #3/88

CSC G52 = The H.A.H.C. "huge mass grave" #4/89

CSC G51 = The H.A.H.C. "huge mass grave" #5/90

CSC F1 = The H.A.H.C. "huge mass grave" #6/91

CSC G44 = The H.A.H.C. "huge mass grave" #7/92

CSC G1 = The H.A.H.C. "huge mass grave" #8/93

CSC G4 = The H.A.H.C. "huge mass grave" #9/94

CSC G38 = The H.A.H.C. "huge mass grave" #10/95

CSC F16 = The H.A.H.C. "huge mass grave" #11/96

NOTE: This is a photo of fraudulently alleged "huge mass grave" F16:

https://i.postimg.cc/vT4MG5d5/Treblinka-F16.jpg

CSC F9 = The H.A.H.C. "huge mass grave" #12/97

CSC G29 = The H.A.H.C. "huge mass grave" #13/98

CSC G32 = The H.A.H.C. "huge mass grave" #14/99

CSC G36 = The H.A.H.C. "huge mass grave" #15/100

As well we have the 6 additional fraudulently alleged "eyewitness huge mass graves:"

The Wiernik model (We will call these *1A/*101, *2A/*102, *3A/*103, *4A/*104, *5A/*105, *6A/*106):

https://web.archive.org/web/20110210205 ... age001.jpg

And the Stangl trial map (We will call these *1B/*101, *2B/*102, *3B/*103, *4B/*104, *5B/*105, *6B/*106):

https://muzeumtreblinka.eu/wp-content/u ... apa-22.jpg

(Count the 6 addional fraudulently alleged "huge mass graves" from top left to right.)

*NOTE that this is a photo of one of the 6 fraudulently alleged "eyewitness huge mass graves:"

https://i.postimg.cc/65zjGzLY/Monumentmassgrave-TII.jpg

[Nessie]

Borjastick misrepresents;

viewtopic.php?p=24588#p24588

Let's apply the same 'they must be dead because they weren't here afterwards and we cannot count as many' routine to the great famines of Ireland.

There is no such "routine". The evidence variously from eyewitnesses, documents and physical remains is the main evidence of death in the gas chambers. That they "weren't here afterwards" is circumstantial evidence, which corroborates the eyewitnesses etc evidence of mass murder, as it stands to reason, if people are killed, there will be no evidence of their existence afterwards.

But overall the population dropped by as much as 2-3 million which was a huge percentage of the total. Where did they go or did they all die??? Using the ashkenazi process and method we can quite strogly assert they all died.

That method does not exist, it is a figment of borjastick's imagination. Evidence from eyewitnesses etc corroborates to prove there was a famine in Ireland.

In reality people left for the US, UK, Canada etc. They went where Irish people are now, all over the shop.

That mass movement of Irish people, is also evidenced, by corroborating eyewitnesses and documents. That is what so-called revisionists cannot do for the Jews sent to the AR camps, Chelmno and the A-B Kremas.