Kula vs Tauber on "Kula columns"

[bombsaway]

Can you remind me what the questions were (pertaining to the topic of this thread) that you felt like we were dodging? Maybe start with the most important one.

The last thing I asked about was how do you explain the discrepancy between the groups of witnesses - the eyewitnesses almost all report columns, those who aren't clear eyewitnesses or are getting it second hand - don't and furthermore blatantly contradict the narrative with statements like the gas came out of showerheads.

Just like I explained how the column *could have* plausibly worked, you're going to have to do that with the conspiracy you believe in . You avoid this subject like the plague. Always have, always will I say.

Here's the problem I have with this,

"the eyewitnesses almost all report columns,"

This is a claim. As a lawyer would say, you are "assuming facts not in evidence." Where did you even try to establish this?

"those who aren't clear eyewitnesses or are getting it second hand - don't and furthermore blatantly contradict the narrative"

Or this?

It seems you want to steer the discussion away from the specifics (e.g., Kula) in favor of wild goose chases. I think you do this because you know you will lose on the specifics and want to pivot to vague propositions. To open the door for perpetual talmudry.

Creating a comprehensive/definitive database of Kula column testimonies and comparing this to all the testimonies more broadly is not the sort of project someone is going to take on just for sake of a forum reply. Germar's summary in the encyclopedia is probably the best thing that's been published (and the HH volumes on the Sonderkommandos are the best thing on that topic more generally). You are being unreasonable in demanding this in a thread which is specifically dedicated to discussing "Kula vs Tauber." Especially when you have made zero effort to contribute to such a project yourself. If you want to make that argument, you should try to put in the work. Or at least get it started.

My impression is that Sonderkommando testimonies generally contain more interior details than random stories, but you would expect that under both the Holocaust and Holohoax scenarios.

Ok I'll be more concrete. Why don't any sonderkommando testimonies or perpetrator confessions describe wildly implausible and contradictory methods, like gas coming out of shower heads? Why is it only the ones based on hearsay, or where it's not clear they were eyewitnesses? This isn't a minor detail. If it was all nonsense you would expect parity here.

[Stubble]

To be very clear, the people who gave testimony can't even agree if the columns were square, or round. What material they were made from. Their function.

Hell, one of the 'perpetrators' says it was just a screen in the ceiling they poured the zyklon onto. Being honest, out of all the various testimony, I find this one the most reasonable. The contrivance is super simple and would work reasonably well.

[bombsaway]

what perpetrator said that?

who said they were round?

Be concrete, post testimony.

[HansHill]

Why are we out here lying?

Jeanette Kaufmann worked at Birkenau specifically in dismantling the Crematoria.

She claims the gas chamber was disguised as a bathroom and the gas was jury rigged to enter via shower heads:

The last mentioned room had a very big door like that of a bank safe. The bathroom was actually fitted out with shower sprays, but they were connected to gas pipes instead of water pipes. Our colleagues forming part of the permanent staff of the building explained some of the routine de-tails of the working to us. The 'Bathroom' was designed to cope with 2,000 people in 15 minutes.

https://holocausthandbooks.com/wp-conte ... tmotam.pdf

Where are these gas pipes, Bombsaway? Is she referring to your Schroedinger Column? Is whe wrong? Unreliable? Or her testimony is a little incomplete and we can harmonise it together with Chazan, Tauber, Mueller and Kula if we pretend hard enough!

[Stubble]

Let's play, I can't read the chart on the entry in the Holocaust Encyclopedia...shall we?
The chart
https://holocaustencyclopedia.com/techn ... n-devices/
Entry for Kurt Marcus
https://holocaustencyclopedia.com/witne ... rcus-kurt/

(He appears to be a victim, not a perpetrator, my bad. For some reason I thought this was a 'perpetrator' confession...)

Zyklon was introduced by sprinkling it through a hole onto a net hanging beneath the ceiling.

I read net as 'net/mesh/screen'.

Muller, round, sheet metal.
Nyiszli, round, pipes.
Obrycki, gas grenade/cartridge
Piazza, cylinders 'ejected' into the room, that sometimes failed to break on impact.
Tabeau, bombs installed in the ventilation system.
Weiss, forced air fans in pillars.

I wouldn't call this 'harmony'.

Of note, the guy Hoess put in charge of the gassing operation at the Kremas at Birkenau (alleged by Hoess, Muller etc), was unaware of the layout of the Kremas, and, when offered more time in prison, instead of the rope, was unable to confirm allied propaganda about the process, because he didn't know.

Otto Moll
https://holocaustencyclopedia.com/witne ... -otto/693/

When asked about the operations at the so-called Birkenau bunkers, he insisted that he did not know what the interrogator was talking about. Moll did not even change his mind when the interrogator pointed out to him that he was already a dead man, and that they would let him live only as long as he was willing to talk and confess.

[bombsaway]

Why are we out here lying?

Jeanette Kaufmann worked at Birkenau specifically in dismantling the Crematoria.

She claims the gas chamber was disguised as a bathroom and the gas was jury rigged to enter via shower heads:

The last mentioned room had a very big door like that of a bank safe. The bathroom was actually fitted out with shower sprays, but they were connected to gas pipes instead of water pipes. Our colleagues forming part of the permanent staff of the building explained some of the routine de-tails of the working to us. The 'Bathroom' was designed to cope with 2,000 people in 15 minutes.

https://holocausthandbooks.com/wp-conte ... tmotam.pdf

Where are these gas pipes, Bombsaway? Is she referring to your Schroedinger Column? Is whe wrong? Unreliable? Or her testimony is a little incomplete and we can harmonise it together with Chazan, Tauber, Mueller and Kula if we pretend hard enough!

Your star witness worked at the Crematoria after the columns had already been removed.

The Auskleideraum and the ‘bath room’ were underground and had to be reached by steps leading downwards. In the so-called ‘bath room’ there were gas pipes disposed in the walls. We uncovered these pipes when we demolished the walls. I cannot say how the gas pipes were connected with the other appliances in the room, but I assume that the gas was penetrating into the room through the objects which looked like showers and possible also through boxes with little holes in them which looked like electric fuse boxes.

She clearly was just guessing. This is not a statement of someone who was an eyewitness to the gassing procedures or intact gas chambers.

[bombsaway]

Let's play, I can't read the chart on the entry in the Holocaust Encyclopedia...shall we?
The chart
https://holocaustencyclopedia.com/techn ... n-devices/
Entry for Kurt Marcus
https://holocaustencyclopedia.com/witne ... rcus-kurt/

(He appears to be a victim, not a perpetrator, my bad. For some reason I thought this was a 'perpetrator' confession...)

Zyklon was introduced by sprinkling it through a hole onto a net hanging beneath the ceiling.

I read net as 'net/mesh/screen'.

Muller, round, sheet metal.
Nyiszli, round, pipes.
Obrycki, gas grenade/cartridge
Piazza, cylinders 'ejected' into the room, that sometimes failed to break on impact.
Tabeau, bombs installed in the ventilation system.
Weiss, forced air fans in pillars.

I wouldn't call this 'harmony'.

Of note, the guy Hoess put in charge of the gassing operation at the Kremas at Birkenau (alleged by Hoess, Muller etc), was unaware of the layout of the Kremas, and, when offered more time in prison, instead of the rope, was unable to confirm allied propaganda about the process, because he didn't know.

Otto Moll
https://holocaustencyclopedia.com/witne ... -otto/693/

When asked about the operations at the so-called Birkenau bunkers, he insisted that he did not know what the interrogator was talking about. Moll did not even change his mind when the interrogator pointed out to him that he was already a dead man, and that they would let him live only as long as he was willing to talk and confess.

Nothing suggests Marcus was an eyewitness, so he is another example of the discrepancy I've pointed out.

Where does Mueller call the columns round?

You have to give me testimony, I'm not just going to believe what you say.

[Stubble]

However, not all the pillars served this purpose: for there were others, too. The Zyclon B gas crystals were inserted through openings into hollow pillars made of sheet metal. They were perforated at regular intervals and inside them a spiral ran from top to bottom in order to ensure as even a distribution of the granular crystals as possible.

Eyewitness Auschwitz p60

You just going to walk right past the rest of it? You already dismissed one guy out of hand, I don't know, just because or whatever.

I suppose now you are going to claim a spiral is fucking square and sheet metal is mesh.

Or maybe you'll just dismiss Muller, out of hand, because you don't like his testimony so it's hearsay...

What a fucking joke.

Can't harmonize it? Pitch it. Can't pitch it? Molested it into fitting and play fucking dumb about it. None of that working? Call me a crazy person and change the subject to how 'it's not fair' because nobody can tell you where the jews that aren't in the ground where they are supposed to be went.

[bombsaway]

"inside them a spiral ran" this is not saying the column is round.

Your outrage is noted though.

[HansHill]

Claim: nobody who worked at the Krema claims gas came from shower heads because thats too crazy

Rebuttal: yes they did, here’s one - she described the gas pipes being connected to the shower heads

Counter: nooooooo, she didnt SEE a mass gassing

Pssst, Bombsaway



Nobody saw a mass gassing.


Take the L.

[HansHill]

He’s got a point Bombsaway. You’re the one who’s so certain you “know where they are”. Rather than derail this thread about theoretical murder weapons with your pedantic filibustering why dont you revisit a Reinhardt thread and show Herr Stubble “where they are”?

Should be a piece of babka for you.

[bombsaway]

Claim: nobody who worked at the Krema claims gas came from shower heads because thats too crazy

Rebuttal: yes they did, here’s one - she described the gas pipes being connected to the shower heads

Counter: nooooooo, she didnt SEE a mass gassing

She guessed as she was demolishing

"I cannot say how the gas pipes were connected with the other appliances in the room, but I assume that the gas was penetrating into the room through the objects which looked like showers and possible also through boxes with little holes in them which looked like electric fuse boxes."

This is not the same as an SK or confessed perpetrator who saw the intact gas chambers or was present before or after gassings. You can't find someone like this eh