My handle on classical physics is pretty good, and you being dismissive isn't a good look. When we get in to 'the zoo', there things get a little fuzzy, then again, that's where things get a little fuzzy.
I guess I need to go read more Gamow...
Regarding bang bangs, my practical knowledge is sufficient for my needs. I can cook b2 and make a shaped charge out of a bottle of champagne.
Personal insults and slights to the side, shouting at me isn't going to change anything, and insulting me isn't going to impart whatever you are trying to share. In short, have fun arguing with and to yourself I suppose, into the bucket you go.
14f13 misuse of power
Re: 14f13 misuse of power
If I were to guess why no t4 personnel were chosen to perform gassing that had experience with gassing, it would be because THERE WERE NONE.
Re: 14f13 misuse of power
Since we’re diving into 'the zoo' and invoking George Gamow, let's talk about the actual physics of reality versus the administrative fiction you’re defending.
In my work, I look at the Bodhrán Hypothesis: the idea that reality is a self-existent cosmic oscillation (Wave Function 47). In this model, space and time aren't just empty containers; they are emergent rhythms of this oscillation. Mathematics is merely the lens we use to describe these patterns—it doesn’t create them.
When the architects of Action 14f13 looked at a prisoner, they weren't seeing a unique node in that cosmic oscillation. They were attempting to 'delete' what they saw as 'excess ballast' to balance a failing industrial machine.
By calling this 'mercy,' you’re making a catastrophic category error:
The Gamow Rebuttal: Gamow fled a regime that treated humans as disposable variables because he understood that the 'fuzziness' of the quantum zoo is a source of infinite complexity and life, not a justification for industrial-scale culling.
The Industrial Ledger: 14f13 wasn't hospice; it was the administrative code for 'Industrial Insolvency'—14 for the Inspectorate, 'f' for deaths, and 13 for gassing. It was the point where a state decided its spreadsheet was more 'real' than the human lives emerging from the wave function oscillation.
You can hide in your 'bucket' and play with your champagne-bottle shaped charges all you like. But the thermodynamics of a machine that burns its own 'variables' to stay warm is a machine in a state of terminal collapse.
The cosmic wave doesn't care about your 'mercy' marketing brochure. It only cares about the rhythm—and 14f13 was a scream, not a note.
Enjoy the silence.
SPQR Vita hominis iter est, non destinatio..Hüntinger
Re: 14f13 misuse of power
The Industrial Ledger of 14f13.
The administrative reality of the Inspectorate of Concentration Camps (14f) is far more revealing than the 'mercy' labels often retroactively applied to it. When we look at the specific coding—14f1 (natural deaths), 14f2 (suicides/accidental), and 14f13 (gassing of 'unfit' prisoners)—we see a system designed for variable management, not medical care.
By 1943, the program was largely curtailed because the war economy demanded every unit of labour, proving that the 'selection' criteria were always economic and logistical, rather than humanitarian.
If anyone else here has looked into the Arolsen Archives or the Hessian State Archives regarding the specific transport lists for the 14f13 'transfers' to Hartheim or Sonnenstein, I’d be curious to discuss how those logistical 'budget cuts' align with the broader shift in camp management toward the end of the war.
I find the interplay between resource scarcity and systemic culling to be one of the most under-discussed aspects of the wartime industrial machine.
The "Industrial Logistics" Follow-up
"Setting the personal digressions aside, I’m interested in staying focused on the Industrial Ledger of 14f13 and its logistical siblings.
However, the 'mercy' narrative completely collapses when we look at the actual field application. At Sobibor, for instance, Dutch survivors (such as Elie Cohen) testified that the 'decrepit'—those the 'mercy' theorists claim were being 'helped'—were simply loaded onto industrial tipper wagons. They weren't taken to a hospice; they were tipped into pits and shot.
By 1943, the 14f13 program was largely curtailed by Oswald Pohl because the war economy demanded every unit of labour. This proves the selection criteria were always economic and logistical. If it were truly 'mercy for the suffering,' they wouldn't have stopped the 'kindness' just because they needed more hands for the spreadsheet.
I find this interplay between resource scarcity and systemic culling to be the most rigorous way to analyze the period. If anyone else has looked into the Arolsen Archives or the Dutch Red Cross reports regarding the Sobibor 'Sick Transports' (Krankentransport), I’d be curious to discuss how those logistical 'budget cuts' align with the broader shift in camp management."
The administrative reality of the Inspectorate of Concentration Camps (14f) is far more revealing than the 'mercy' labels often retroactively applied to it. When we look at the specific coding—14f1 (natural deaths), 14f2 (suicides/accidental), and 14f13 (gassing of 'unfit' prisoners)—we see a system designed for variable management, not medical care.
By 1943, the program was largely curtailed because the war economy demanded every unit of labour, proving that the 'selection' criteria were always economic and logistical, rather than humanitarian.
If anyone else here has looked into the Arolsen Archives or the Hessian State Archives regarding the specific transport lists for the 14f13 'transfers' to Hartheim or Sonnenstein, I’d be curious to discuss how those logistical 'budget cuts' align with the broader shift in camp management toward the end of the war.
I find the interplay between resource scarcity and systemic culling to be one of the most under-discussed aspects of the wartime industrial machine.
The "Industrial Logistics" Follow-up
"Setting the personal digressions aside, I’m interested in staying focused on the Industrial Ledger of 14f13 and its logistical siblings.
However, the 'mercy' narrative completely collapses when we look at the actual field application. At Sobibor, for instance, Dutch survivors (such as Elie Cohen) testified that the 'decrepit'—those the 'mercy' theorists claim were being 'helped'—were simply loaded onto industrial tipper wagons. They weren't taken to a hospice; they were tipped into pits and shot.
From the perspective of the failing machine, the method (gassing vs. shooting) was irrelevant. The only constant was the removal of the non-productive variable.Sick and disabled prisoners had already been hauled onto tippers and taken on a narrow gauge railway straight into the so-called Lager III. Nobody on the transport knew that this separate section of the camp housed the gas chambers and the execution area. Here the tippers were unloaded and the victims were shot; their bodies were thrown into a huge burial pit. Elie Coehn Testimony
By 1943, the 14f13 program was largely curtailed by Oswald Pohl because the war economy demanded every unit of labour. This proves the selection criteria were always economic and logistical. If it were truly 'mercy for the suffering,' they wouldn't have stopped the 'kindness' just because they needed more hands for the spreadsheet.
I find this interplay between resource scarcity and systemic culling to be the most rigorous way to analyze the period. If anyone else has looked into the Arolsen Archives or the Dutch Red Cross reports regarding the Sobibor 'Sick Transports' (Krankentransport), I’d be curious to discuss how those logistical 'budget cuts' align with the broader shift in camp management."
SPQR Vita hominis iter est, non destinatio..Hüntinger
Re: 14f13 misuse of power
The Industrial Ledger: Observations Over Hearsay
Dutch Survivors
To maintain a rigorous analysis of the Industrial Ledger, we must strip away the postwar rumours and hearsay that survivors often accepted as fact and look strictly at their contemporaneous observations. When we do, the 'mercy' narrative for 14f13 and the 'total extermination' myth both collapse under the weight of logistical data.
It is medically and industrially astounding that hundreds of people arrived at an alleged 'extermination' camp like Sobibor or Majdanek and then simply left on trains to go elsewhere.
The Logistical Exit: Survivors like Wins, Cohen, and the Veterman sisters didn't just 'witness' Sobibor; they were processed through it and sent back out to the Lublin-Flugplatz or the Dorohucza peat camps. If these were 'one-way' death machines, this movement of human variables back into the industrial workforce is a massive logistical anomaly.
The "Tipper" Reality (Observed): Multiple survivors saw the elderly and the 'unfit' being thrown onto tippers and moved via narrow-gauge rail. While rumours suggested gassing, the primary observation remains: the physical dumping of 'broken parts' into a disposal system.
The "Shoe" Harvest (Observed): At the peat camps, the survivors watched as 80 men were stripped of their boots and shoes before being moved. In the ledger, the leather was a recoverable asset; the 'unfit' man was not.
The Empty Barracks (Observed): Jetje Veterman and the Polak sisters arrived at Sobibor and found it hermetically sealed and empty.
The Variable of Utility: Every survivor listed was spared because of a specific functional output: assembling printing presses, sorting clothes, or planting potatoes. They weren't 'saved' by kindness; they were retained assets. This was the norm for most people of this ethnic or religious group.
When the state decided to stop 'fueling' those specific variables (the kJ/kcal deficit), the deletion was often crude, kinetic, and immediate—not the 'industrial' myth often used to sanitize the process.
The primary observations of these survivors show a system that recycled clothes and shoes while shooting the sick in the street to save on transport costs. That is the definition of Industrial Insolvency.
The trains didn't just go in; they came back out. The ledger shows a machine focused on utility, not extermination myths or mercy labels.
Dutch Survivors
To maintain a rigorous analysis of the Industrial Ledger, we must strip away the postwar rumours and hearsay that survivors often accepted as fact and look strictly at their contemporaneous observations. When we do, the 'mercy' narrative for 14f13 and the 'total extermination' myth both collapse under the weight of logistical data.
It is medically and industrially astounding that hundreds of people arrived at an alleged 'extermination' camp like Sobibor or Majdanek and then simply left on trains to go elsewhere.
The Logistical Exit: Survivors like Wins, Cohen, and the Veterman sisters didn't just 'witness' Sobibor; they were processed through it and sent back out to the Lublin-Flugplatz or the Dorohucza peat camps. If these were 'one-way' death machines, this movement of human variables back into the industrial workforce is a massive logistical anomaly.
The "Tipper" Reality (Observed): Multiple survivors saw the elderly and the 'unfit' being thrown onto tippers and moved via narrow-gauge rail. While rumours suggested gassing, the primary observation remains: the physical dumping of 'broken parts' into a disposal system.
The "Shoe" Harvest (Observed): At the peat camps, the survivors watched as 80 men were stripped of their boots and shoes before being moved. In the ledger, the leather was a recoverable asset; the 'unfit' man was not.
The Empty Barracks (Observed): Jetje Veterman and the Polak sisters arrived at Sobibor and found it hermetically sealed and empty.
They didn't see 'mercy' or 'hospice'; they saw the aftermath of a massive administrative deletion. 6,000 variables had been cleared from the spreadsheet in a single day (Aktion Erntefest) to prepare for the Red Army's advance.We didn’t know what Sobibor actually was. You didn’t see any people, the barracks were completely empty, no beds, nothing.’
The Variable of Utility: Every survivor listed was spared because of a specific functional output: assembling printing presses, sorting clothes, or planting potatoes. They weren't 'saved' by kindness; they were retained assets. This was the norm for most people of this ethnic or religious group.
When the state decided to stop 'fueling' those specific variables (the kJ/kcal deficit), the deletion was often crude, kinetic, and immediate—not the 'industrial' myth often used to sanitize the process.
The primary observations of these survivors show a system that recycled clothes and shoes while shooting the sick in the street to save on transport costs. That is the definition of Industrial Insolvency.
The trains didn't just go in; they came back out. The ledger shows a machine focused on utility, not extermination myths or mercy labels.
SPQR Vita hominis iter est, non destinatio..Hüntinger