Hungarian extermination at Auschwitz Birkenau and Refractory Brick Deterioration

[Fred Ziffel]

From the middle of May 1944 to August 1944 it is said that some 434K to 437K Hungarians were brought to Auschwitz Birkenau to be gassed and burned in the 4 crematoria (46 retorts) and cremated outside in burn pits nearby Crematorium V.

Carlo Mattogno has covered this event extensively in his book ‘Open-Air Incineration’. This presentation is from a different perspective that should be mentioned and adds more fuel to the fire (pun intended) that the alleged event really did not happen. Mr. Mattogno presented convincing arguments to the nonsense of the official narrative. However, he made no mention to the deterioration of the refractory in his arguments in regard to the Hungarian alleged gas’n burn event at Auschwitz in spring/summer1944.

I will not discuss the outside burning of bodies in this posting.

This posting concerns the deteriorating effect on the refractory (Fire) brick lifespan wear and tear of the 46 retorts and flue systems at Auschwitz Birkenau by cremating so many bodies in such a short time period.
Gusen Toph ovens (2 retorts)

See the attachment concerning the replacement of the oven’s refractory change out. It shows that all the refractory needed to be changed out after about 1,450 cremation processes in each retort. Since both Gusen and Birkenau used Toph model ovens, it makes a good comparison.

Things to consider:

--Until mid-May 1944 the Birkenau ovens have already been in daily service for about a year

--Since the ovens were put into service, there is no documented replacement of any of the 46 ovens refractory

--No documented refractory brick replacement after August 1944

--I increase the number of processes to 2,000 before necessary replacement regardless of the Gusen Toph oven performance in 1941. I added an extra 500+ processes per retort.

Calculation attachments Danuta Czech

I have two attachments that details the variables and calculations based on the Hungarian extermination event.
One example I take, is the data of what Holocaust Historian Danuta Czech’s claim that 8,000 Hungarians were cremated in the 46 Birkenau retorts per day. (Mattogno, Open-Air Incinerations, P. 32).

8,000 / 46 retorts = 173.9 bodies per retort, per 24-hour day. Then 2,000 processes / 173 bodies = 11.5 days. Thus, the refractory due to high temperature related deterioration would have to be changed out about every 11.5 days if Danuta Czech’s claim is accurate.

I listed other daily capacity claims in the attachment. However, the take-away here is the refractory bricks in these 1940s era oven and flue system refractory could would not be able to cope with the wear and tear of cremating so many bodies is such a short time.

[borjastick]

Please understand that your calculations are fundamentally incorrect. By that I mean that in Auschwitz time there are anything between 32 and 217 hours in a day. Thus the practical processing of bodies through each oven was variable depending on the time of the month, the number of train loads coming in (including those trains that went elsewhere as they were all included in the number of dead Hungarians) and the exaggeration factor which is essential to the holocaust story.

When you add in peripheral claims such as one body can be burned in 12 minutes and fifteen bodies could be stuffed inside one oven and they would burn even quicker, then you can do a calculation and arrive at a respectable estimate of between 400,000 and 1.6m Hungarians transported into Auschwitz, gassed and cremated all before afternoon tea on July 12th 1944.

It's very simple when you think about it, fantasize and lie.

Oh and one last thing is to realise that about 200,000 Hungarian jews appeared back in Hungary alive and well after the war as shown in the work of The Dissolution of European Jewry.

[Nazgul]

You do realize that there were 300 camps in Austria for Hungarian jews until 45. Peter Lantos and his family experienced that reality.

[Fred Ziffel]

Please understand that your calculations are fundamentally incorrect. By that I mean that in Auschwitz time there are anything between 32 and 217 hours in a day. Thus the practical processing of bodies through each oven was variable depending on the time of the month, the number of train loads coming in (including those trains that went elsewhere as they were all included in the number of dead Hungarians) and the exaggeration factor which is essential to the holocaust story.

When you add in peripheral claims such as one body can be burned in 12 minutes and fifteen bodies could be stuffed inside one oven and they would burn even quicker, then you can do a calculation and arrive at a respectable estimate of between 400,000 and 1.6m Hungarians transported into Auschwitz, gassed and cremated all before afternoon tea on July 12th 1944.

It's very simple when you think about it, fantasize and lie.

Oh and one last thing is to realise that about 200,000 Hungarian jews appeared back in Hungary alive and well after the war as shown in the work of The Dissolution of European Jewry.

This posting has nothing to do with claimed throughput of the ovens, but the affects of so many cremation processes would have on the refractory lining inside the ovens

[Nessie]

From the Topf & Sons engineers;

https://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=61650

"The inner brick lining of the crematory chimneys in Auschwitz already started crumbling after half a year due to the colossal strain to which these crematoria were subject at the concentration camp."

[Stubble]

Please understand that your calculations are fundamentally incorrect. By that I mean that in Auschwitz time there are anything between 32 and 217 hours in a day. Thus the practical processing of bodies through each oven was variable depending on the time of the month, the number of train loads coming in (including those trains that went elsewhere as they were all included in the number of dead Hungarians) and the exaggeration factor which is essential to the holocaust story.

When you add in peripheral claims such as one body can be burned in 12 minutes and fifteen bodies could be stuffed inside one oven and they would burn even quicker, then you can do a calculation and arrive at a respectable estimate of between 400,000 and 1.6m Hungarians transported into Auschwitz, gassed and cremated all before afternoon tea on July 12th 1944.

It's very simple when you think about it, fantasize and lie.

Oh and one last thing is to realise that about 200,000 Hungarian jews appeared back in Hungary alive and well after the war as shown in the work of The Dissolution of European Jewry.

Exterminationists claim about 30% of the Hungarian jews went out the chimney as smoke never to be seen or heard from again.

60% were put to work.

I find the claim that 30% were exterminated dubious when you have Hungarian jews, unable to work, in isolation in the medical wing for months, and when you have records reflecting transport of Hungarian jews to recovery camps.

Another point of interest I've recently come across is the 1,600 Hungarian jews released from Bergen Belsen and transported to Palestine. Someone named Saly Mayer procured their release from Belsen then they were transported by ship to Palestine. You can find information regarding this in memoranda from the 'refugees' file.

[Fred Ziffel]

Here is someone in the know about the cremation and refractory bricks and deterioration of.
Some of the old timers here no doubt have seen this video with Ivan Lagace of Cananda.
Link:

Run time is 4 mins but there is a longer interview with him

attached
Lagace credentials
witness testimonial from crem 1
The dates when the ovens went into service at crem 1. as at Birkenau, same Topf ovens are used

[Fred Ziffel]

Burn in the rain, May I mention the weather?
One other issue that is not taken into consideration much is if the Germans were indeed conducting burn pit operations outside, what affect will rain or even thunderstorms would have on the burn?

I know it does not rain everyday in southern Poland, but it does rain. What kind of mess would the Germans have on their hands. Potentially water, half burnt wet wood, half burnt bodies? Or they build the burn, and then it begins to rain? All the wood is wet, the bodies are wet, water at the bottom of all that mass of wood and human carcasses that are also 60 to 70% water? Wait till it all dries out and try again? Was everyday a good day for a burn?

If 434K to 437K went up in smoke in the said 6 weeks, absolutely no interruption can happen.
The attachment is the average precipitation for Krakow Poland. The Hungarian burn was said to have begun May 17, 1944 and lasted till August of that year. Now look at the average precipitation for Krakow. Was the weather a concern? From May to August, we are looking at a potential of 38 days of rain and over 1/4 of the time period of the alleged outside burn event
I will give a total of 110 days for the operation: 38 rain days / 110 days = 34.5% of the time period it could be rain?

[TlsMS93]

Burn in the rain, May I mention the weather?
One other issue that is not taken into consideration much is if the Germans were indeed conducting burn pit operations outside, what affect will rain or even thunderstorms would have on the burn?

I know it does not rain everyday in southern Poland, but it does rain. What kind of mess would the Germans have on their hands. Potentially water, half burnt wet wood, half burnt bodies? Or they build the burn, and then it begins to rain? All the wood is wet, the bodies are wet, water at the bottom of all that mass of wood and human carcasses that are also 60 to 70% water? Wait till it all dries out and try again? Was everyday a good day for a burn?

If 434K to 437K went up in smoke in the said 6 weeks, absolutely no interruption can happen.
The attachment is the average precipitation for Krakow Poland. The Hungarian burn was said to have begun May 17, 1944 and lasted till August of that year. Now look at the average precipitation for Krakow. Was the weather a concern? From May to August, we are looking at a potential of 38 days of rain and over 1/4 of the time period of the alleged outside burn event
I will give a total of 110 days for the operation: 38 rain days / 110 days = 34.5% of the time period it could be rain?

Yahweh personally made sure that it did not rain during this period. This is how the Jews solve the problems and gaps in their myths. The more religious ones ask where God was in the Holocaust? And they answer that he was inside the ovens.

[Wetzelrad]

I would like to know where is the establishment's response to this topic? Is there going to be any attempt at a response to this, or is it irrefutable?

Summarizing Mattogno, this is the actual or estimated number of cremations that an oven muffle was able to withstand before the refractory bricks had to be replaced:

• Paris 1889: 2,500 cremations (per muffle)
• Erfurt electric furnace 1935: 1,294 cremations
• Erfurt electric furnace 1939: 2,910 cremations
• Erfurt unspecified furnace: "about 2,000 cremations"
• Gusen 1941: 1,445 cremations
• Auschwitz I: less than 800 cremations
• Bow Valley Crematorium 1985: 1,500-3,000 cremations (Link)
• Ener-Tek II: "many thousands of cremations before repair"

According to the experts, Crematorium II was the site of 400,000 (Pressac) to 500,000 (Van Pelt) cremations. Divided across its 15 muffles, this would mean 26,667 to 33,333 cremations per muffle. Yet the refractory bricks of this and the other three Birkenau crematoria somehow never had to be replaced.

(Cremas II and IV did actually have refractory work done once, shortly after they were put into operation, and done on the chimney and ducts, not on the muffles. Problems with the forced-draft system and with unanticipated thermal expansion caused damage and partial collapse to the refractory bricks. This is what is actually documented, and it is the actual reason for which Prüfer came to Birkenau on this occasion. Prüfer later told his captors that the reason for the trip was because of "colossal strain", as Nessie randomly quoted above, but this is not documented and actually contrary to the documents from that period.)

Replacing the refractory bricks would take the whole crematorium out of commission for a week, minimum, and it would involve considerable labor and material costs. If this had happened at Cremas II-V it should appear in the Topf invoices and correpondence. Why doesn't it?

[TlsMS93]

I would like to know where is the establishment's response to this topic? Is there going to be any attempt at a response to this, or is it irrefutable?

Summarizing Mattogno, this is the actual or estimated number of cremations that an oven muffle was able to withstand before the refractory bricks had to be replaced:

• Paris 1889: 2,500 cremations (per muffle)
• Erfurt electric furnace 1935: 1,294 cremations
• Erfurt electric furnace 1939: 2,910 cremations
• Erfurt unspecified furnace: "about 2,000 cremations"
• Gusen 1941: 1,445 cremations
• Auschwitz I: less than 800 cremations
• Bow Valley Crematorium 1985: 1,500-3,000 cremations (Link)
• Ener-Tek II: "many thousands of cremations before repair"

According to the experts, Crematorium II was the site of 400,000 (Pressac) to 500,000 (Van Pelt) cremations. Divided across its 15 muffles, this would mean 26,667 to 33,333 cremations per muffle. Yet the refractory bricks of this and the other three Birkenau crematoria somehow never had to be replaced.

(Cremas II and IV did actually have refractory work done once, shortly after they were put into operation, and done on the chimney and ducts, not on the muffles. Problems with the forced-draft system and with unanticipated thermal expansion caused damage and partial collapse to the refractory bricks. This is what is actually documented, and it is the actual reason for which Prüfer came to Birkenau on this occasion. Prüfer later told his captors that the reason for the trip was because of "colossal strain", as Nessie randomly quoted above, but this is not documented and actually contrary to the documents from that period.)

Replacing the refractory bricks would take the whole crematorium out of commission for a week, minimum, and it would involve considerable labor and material costs. If this had happened at Cremas II-V it should appear in the Topf invoices and correpondence. Why doesn't it?

Nessie gave a flamboyant answer, as if that would solve anything.

The fact is that even if we allow for a margin of 4,000 cremations per muffle furnace before the refractory brick needs to be repaired, not even 200,000 people could be cremated in Birkenau, less than 1/5 of the alleged number of deaths, of course, disregarding the absurdity of hundreds of thousands being cremated behind Krema V, for which we have almost no evidence, at most the tens of thousands who died in 1942 and had to be cremated due to the inadequacy of Krema I.

[slob]

Delete if not relevent.

150,000 jews returned to Hungary from Russia?
180,000 jews killed at Auschwitz?



50,000 jews returned to Hungary from Russia?
80,000 jews killed at Auschwitz?