Hitler DNA testing

[Wetzelrad]

Barnes Review posted a different angle on this story. A Bill Panagopulos, who helped auction off the piece of couch, claimed that it was taken by Colonel Rosengren "a few days after Hitler committed suicide". This contradicts known histories, as U.S. soldiers were not in Berlin until at least two months later.

The presumed argument against this would be that Panagopulos was just an auctioneer trying to sell something and can not be trusted as an authority. The quotation would carry more weight if it came from Rosengren himself. Undeterred, the writer at Barnes Review continues:

Could Rosengren have taken fabric from Hitler’s couch, even at a later date? The answer is once again no.

The Soviets had exclusive access to the bunker until 7 July 1945. By then, they had removed, documented, and later destroyed most items in the bunker.

The bunker was partially demolished by the Soviets before Americans ever saw it.

What did happen to Hitler’s couch?

It was photographed and examined by Soviet troops on 2–3 May 1945.

Russian archival reports describe removing fabrics, blood-stained coverings, and personal effects.

These materials went into Soviet NKVD custody, not American hands.

https://barnesreview.org/latest-hitler- ... -nonsense/

If all those facts are accurate, this makes the origin story unlikely, at the very least.

[fireofice]

More info here. Apparently there will also be an American documentary coming out soon as well.

https://www.gettysburgmuseumofhistory.c ... ent-myths/

[fireofice]

I've recently been in communication with someone who is of the opinion that if someone has Kallmann syndrome, that the symptoms would be obvious and that even "mild" forms of it are still obvious. Now I'm not an expert on this syndrome (in fact I never even heard of it until this news, that's how little of an expert I am) and don't feel like going through through the literature on the details of this syndrome. Here's what I'll say assuming what this person told me is true.

If what this person said to me is true, then it is clear that Hitler did NOT have Kallmann syndrome. This means there are only two options for what happened with the DNA.

1. The DNA results were fake.

2. The PROK2 mutation in question does not demonstrate someone has Kallmann syndrome.

On the second point, I am unsure what the current prevailing scientific opinion is. If the results are genuine and the current scientific opinion is that this mutation necessarily causes Kallmann syndrome (which again I have not looked into) and what this person told me is true, then the current scientific opinion is wrong and we need to update our knowledge on the nature of this gene. That is what science is after all, changing our views when new evidence comes along.

[fireofice]

Relevant Keith Woods thread and article:



https://keithwoods.pub/p/hitler-kallmanns

Seb Jensen also had this to say on the other things said about his DNA:

[Archie]

This is the key part: "Having one copy of PROK2 deletion does NOT cause Kallmann Syndrome and possibly does only in rare cases, yet here she acts as if it's definitive."

If this is correct, this would be a really outrageous error. Did they not look this up? If not, they should be disciplined by the relevant professional body.

[Wetzelrad]

I would like to retract my previous comment where I claimed "experts are not a problem".

By the way, I've now watched the first episode of the show and it's worse than I anticipated. A bunch of random personalities give their opinion on Hitler's personality and personal life. The "experts", including Turi King, stare off into space at holograms of DNA added in post. They act out scripted conversations and pretend to gesture-control the holograms. It's slop.

Turi King does say that the Y chromosome is "an exact match" for the family member sample Jean Paul Mulders previously acquired. But at this point King's credibility is shot so I would not be surprised if this was false.

[Hektor]

Here one will find all of the tropes. I stand corrected on my previous 'at least' remark. Apparently, his grandmother was a whore and he is boiling in a pot of excrement in hell according to some. Not a religious text, but, the claim is out there...

https://theserapeum.com/hitler/



The fellow that wrote this is, something else.

I'm always puzzled by the obsession people have with Hitler (or rather the Mythical figures that was constructed of him). Now I get that he's one of the more interesting historical figures. But really, being obsessed with sexual features is remarkably clear cut certifiable psychological obsession.

And you are spot on that Hitler is a stand-in for Jesus and the Devil at the same time.

[HansHill]

offset by his gigachad genes, as fireofice suggests above. Take your pick.

Mecha Gigachad Turbohitler confirmed.

[Stubble]

Z_kyle has a song for this;

https://odysee.com/@Z_Kyle:2/Z-KYLE-GiG ... m-mix%29:3

Gigachad!

[Wetzelrad]

I've now watched episode 2. They get into Kallman's syndrome. What they say is simply false. As Keith Woods pointed out in the three studies he cited, one monoallelic mutation typically means the person is asymptomatic, therefore they don't have the syndrome. These three studies are clearly contrary to the bombastic claims from Channel 4's experts.

Turi King: I have to say there was a bit of a [gasp] moment. He's got a deletion in a gene known as PROK2. So PROK2 is found on chromosome 3. We've got two chromosome 3s. He has a section on one of his where there's a deletion of a crucial letter, and it's a nonsense deletion. So if you've not got one working, it can have a pretty big impact on your health, and we know that it's strongly associated with something known as Kallman's syndrome.

Simply false, and contrary to the published science. She makes a stronger statement later in the program.

Turi King: He's got one copy of the PROK2 gene that's normal, one copy that's not, but my understanding is that even having just one copy with this mutation you will have some form of Kallman's. Is that correct?

Jorma Toppari: That's correct.

Actually that's incorrect. But here's a video clip of her saying it, for good measure: https://x.com/Wetzelrad/status/2000075380737056808

And again, King is saying things like this while pretending to gesture at special effects of holograms added in post, making it difficult to take any part of the program seriously. Here is a video of some of these scenes, from episodes 1 and 2: https://x.com/Wetzelrad/status/2000075093544980636

The show also makes several claims about Hitler's penis. No serious comment can be made here.

Moving on, at 24:20 they venture to Hartheim Castle. A director on site shows the alleged gas chamber and claims among other things that, "It was disguised as a shower room." Nothing shown evidences this. The camera focuses on a random pipe in the corner as the director claims carbon monoxide was used. Then for two seconds the camera shows an extremely out-of-focus external window in the background of the room, a strange feature for a gas chamber. The director claims "30,000 people were murdered here." I don't know much about Hartheim, but I know the Allies previously claimed from 2 to 4 million were killed there, so consider me a skeptic.

Did Uncle Adolf ever describe 'smelling' anything? Apparently there is an absence of smell with this proposed genetic disorder.

The show tries to evidence this by saying that Hitler did not complain about Dr. Theo Morell's body odor but "everyone in Hitler's inner circle" did. This is supposed to mean that Hitler lacked a sense of smell. An enormous reach.

[Archie]

Thanks the reporting, Wetzelrad. I don't know if I could have stomached it.

This seems like a simple thing to look up. Here's the summary Google gave me when I searched it, for example.

In Kallmann syndrome (KS) associated with the PROK2 gene, having two altered copies (homozygous or compound heterozygous mutations) is generally required to cause the disease, aligning with an autosomal recessive pattern of inheritance. Carrying a single copy (heterozygous mutation) often results in an unaffected individual or variable, less severe symptoms due to incomplete penetrance and oligogenic inheritance.

I have not seen any rebuttals. It is quite amazing that they got this wrong. I get that they want to be sensational, but I don't get why you'd release something that immediately falls apart.

In one of the clips, they were saying the polygenic risk scores for autism, schizophrenia, and bipolar disorder were all top 1%. But it seems unlikely he would have all those mental disorders. I don't think the risk scores are very accurate for conditions like that, i.e., it's only modestly predictive.