Jankiel Wiernik

[Stubble]

The first footnote is also important.

1 AAN, 1325/202/II-29, p. 72. This document was translated from Polish. Reprinted in: Kraj, No. 9/10, September 28, 1943, pp. 30–31. Świadkowie zbrodni. Kraj. Agencja Informacyjna (The Country. News Agency) was the press service of the Government Delegation, which appeared once or twice a week from July 1943 onwards with a circulation of 750 copies under the editorship of Kirył Sosnowski (1910–1966).

...
Also Verfolgung und Ermordung quotes its version from a standalone source with numerous handwritten corrections, which tells us this was another draft. If we had a scan of that we could compare the typewriting and handwriting with other documents.

I overlooked this before since Wetzelrad found the Kraj version.

The AAN version is listed online, but not digitized.

"Reports on the situation of Jews in ghettos and camps outside Warsaw." [Meldunki o sytuacji Żydów w gettach i obozach poza Warszawą.]

Archiwum Akt Nowych (AAN) 2/1325/0/2/202/II/29

I don't know how important it is. It's 82 pages, so the full document scan might cost around $23 from the archive. Getting a copy of the single page is around 28 US cents.

I don't understand how to buy this, what is the process? I'd like to help facilitate this, but, I don't know how.

[pilgrimofdark]

I don't understand how to buy this, what is the process? I'd like to help facilitate this, but, I don't know how.

This is the process I went through to get the residence ban.

First, you need an account and to be logged in.
[edit: forgot that it can take a while for the registration to go through on that site.]

Then on the page for the file you are looking at, there will be a " Ask about scans" button, as well as others like adding to your favorites.

You can request either part of the file or the whole file.

Then days later, someone emails you to tell you how much it will cost. The file I got was 2 Polish złoty per page ($0.27 USD today).

Then you tell them "Yes, go ahead."

Then you wait. I think it was like 3-4 weeks before I heard back.

They email and say your scans are ready and give you the bank info to send a wire.

You do that, and then wait another few business days.

Then, finally, someone emails you the link to download the scans in a ZIP file. The link is valid for 7 days.

The one I got ended up being $8.50 or so. But the minimum I could wire was $10, so I had to send a little extra.

I'm waiting to hear back on a couple other (small) files.

[Stubble]

If I have success navigating the ring of fire, I will update the thread, in the mean time, if someone else navigates the ring of fire they will find no objections from me. Step one 'set up an account'. I will try to navigate step one...

Also, thanks for explaining how to do this pilgrimofdark, I apologize that I will be a bit tardy to the party, but, if no one does it first, I will get there.

[pilgrimofdark]

If I have success navigating the ring of fire, I will update the thread, in the mean time, if someone else navigates the ring of fire they will find no objections from me. Step one 'set up an account'. I will try to navigate step one...

There are a ton of interesting records in those archives, all from Poland. They have a lot of records in German, as well as Polish.

There's no rush to get that particular one. Hopefully someone will mention if they start the process. With the long turnaround times, there's a risk of overlap.

I'm not sure what the best process is to get archival documents and share them. I've extracted text and translated a few documents from sources that are digitized, but I didn't want to spam them onto the forum. Some are too long for that anyway.

[Stubble]

I know another user and he is waiting for his registration to go through over there. I think he is going to snag it. I'm going to owe him a bottle of Scotch though.

That resource is outstanding, no doubt about that, but, my Polish is shit.

Archie, if you see this, do you think that CODOH.com would be interested in hosting some of these files if we shared them with the parent site via email or a cloud service? Maybe we could host the file to a google drive and share it with an admin over there and they could pull it and host it or something like that? That way the source documents are archived and accessible?

Another option would be for one of us to set up an archive, and hold their hat out asking others to help with hosting costs and upkeep. There is a lot that goes in to such an endeavor though, and a background in IT would be beneficial, with a focus on security.

[pilgrimofdark]

In A Year in Treblinka, Wiernik says he was picked up in the Warsaw Ghetto on August 23, 1942, by German "squad leaders" and Ukrainian "militiamen."

This can not possibly be true in any way.

On August 19, the Germans left the ghetto to conduct deportations in the Warsaw District (outside of the ghetto). They did not return to the Warsaw Ghetto until August 25.

There were no blockades and deportations on August 19-21. On August 22-24, they were conducted by the Jewish Order Police inside the ghetto, who were reported to be rounding up mostly women and children.

Wiernik didn't see the German Kurt Franz or his German dog Bary in the ghetto, because the Germans weren't there at all.

There might even be enough information to map out which date the 23 Wolynska street address was blockaded.

(most of this information comes from the book The Warsaw Ghetto: A Guide to the Perished City, Chapter 5.1, "The Great Deportation Aktion, 21 July—24 September 1942.")

[Stubble]

You talking about Franz and the dog tickled something and so I hit the wiki for giggles. There I ran across something that I seem to remember reading, but, I can't remember if it was in Wiernik or Krzepicki. I will quote it here and see if it rings any bells for anyone;

Spoiler

Oscar Strawczinski wrote:

He rode through the camp with great pleasure and self-confidence. Barry, his big, curly-haired dog would lazily drag along behind...."Lalke" would never leave the place without leaving some memento for somebody. There was always some reason to be found. And even if there were no reason—it made no difference. He was an expert at whipping, twenty-five or fifty lashes. He did it with pleasure, without hurrying. He had his own technique for raising the whip and striking it down. To practice boxing, he would use the heads of Jews, and naturally there was no scarcity of those around. He would grab his victim's lapel and strike with the other hand. The victim would have to hold his head straight so that Franz could aim well. And indeed he did this expertly. The sight of a Jew's head after a "training session" of this sort is not difficult to imagine. Once Lalka was strolling along the platform with a double-barrelled shotgun in his hand and Barry in his wake. He discovered a Jew in front of him, a neighbour of mine from Czestochowa, by the name of Steiner. Without a second thought, he aimed the gun at the man's buttocks and fired. Steiner fell amidst cries of pain. Lalka laughed. He approached him, commanded him to get up, pull down his pants, and then glanced at the wound. The Jew was beside himself with pain. His buttocks were oozing blood from the gashes caused by the lead bullets. But Lalka was not satisfied. He waved his hand and said, "Damn it, the balls haven't been harmed!" He continued his stroll to look for a new victim.[8]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurt_Franz

This is damn near verbatim from somebody, and, I don't think I've read Strawczinski. I'm going to guess Krzepicki, but, I'm having trouble finding it. Ultimately, cross comparing the 'scripts' people 'testified' to may be fruitful. I could just be misremembering though, maybe I have read Strawczinski and simply don't recall.

/shrug

Maybe my head is just getting cooked... It's Krzepicki, I read almost the exact same story in the 1970's English translation.

I decided to take a long break from 'T' series yesterday. I'll come back to it. It takes a toll on me for some reason.

[pilgrimofdark]

You talking about Franz and the dog tickled something and so I hit the wiki for giggles. There I ran across something that I seem to remember reading, but, I can't remember if it was in Wiernik or Krzepicki. I will quote it here and see if it rings any bells for anyone;

Spoiler

Oscar Strawczinski wrote:

He rode through the camp with great pleasure and self-confidence. Barry, his big, curly-haired dog would lazily drag along behind...."Lalke" would never leave the place without leaving some memento for somebody. There was always some reason to be found. And even if there were no reason—it made no difference. He was an expert at whipping, twenty-five or fifty lashes. He did it with pleasure, without hurrying. He had his own technique for raising the whip and striking it down. To practice boxing, he would use the heads of Jews, and naturally there was no scarcity of those around. He would grab his victim's lapel and strike with the other hand. The victim would have to hold his head straight so that Franz could aim well. And indeed he did this expertly. The sight of a Jew's head after a "training session" of this sort is not difficult to imagine. Once Lalka was strolling along the platform with a double-barrelled shotgun in his hand and Barry in his wake. He discovered a Jew in front of him, a neighbour of mine from Czestochowa, by the name of Steiner. Without a second thought, he aimed the gun at the man's buttocks and fired. Steiner fell amidst cries of pain. Lalka laughed. He approached him, commanded him to get up, pull down his pants, and then glanced at the wound. The Jew was beside himself with pain. His buttocks were oozing blood from the gashes caused by the lead bullets. But Lalka was not satisfied. He waved his hand and said, "Damn it, the balls haven't been harmed!" He continued his stroll to look for a new victim.[8]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurt_Franz

This is damn near verbatim from somebody, and, I don't think I've read Strawczinski. I'm going to guess Krzepicki, but, I'm having trouble finding it. Ultimately, cross comparing the 'scripts' people 'testified' to may be fruitful. I could just be misremembering though, maybe I have read Strawczinski and simply don't recall.

/shrug

Maybe my head is just getting cooked... It's Krzepicki, I read almost the exact same story in the 1970's English translation.

Franz, boxing, "Lalka," Bary - everything echoes Wiernik, and is embellished further with Strawczinski's own fantasies and garbled memories of what he read in A Year in Treblinka at the 1944 Soviet book club.

Strawczinski was one of the 8(!) witnesses who told the Soviets about the hundreds of American and British citizens who were killed at Treblinka.

He basically knows nothing about anything in 1944.

Regardless, he goes with Wiernik and Auerbach to wherever they went with the Polish investigators in 1945 for their report that concluded "no mass graves" and included a map with no idea which direction North was.

(That quote from Strawczinski isn't from his 1944 Soviet interrogations. Wikipedia references Arad, but not sure what Arad references.)

The 1944 Soviet Treblinka investigation "Wiernik Book Club" strikes again. I might look closer at the Yiddish version of Krzepicki, too, with all of Auerbach's editorial comments that Donat stripped out.

You know, after reading YIT again after reading The Warsaw Ghetto: A Guide to the Perished City, YIT is almost an allegory of the history of the Warsaw ghetto itself. Almost everything has a direct correlation.

[Stubble]

Krzepicki also.

I haven't checked the original to see if it was inserted later, like, after YiT.

I also need to go back over YiT again...

Or, I need to take a break...

[pilgrimofdark]

I also need to go back over YiT again...

I just finished going through the AI translation of YIT and highlighting all of the passages missing from the Donat translation. The first English translation is missing many more.

I put all 3 translations in parallel columns.

Let me know if you want a copy and I'll send a PDF link.

Donat inflates the daily death toll, but also downplays the exaggerated total death toll.

Polish: 20,000 gassed daily
Donat: 30,000

Polish: 3.5 million corpses
Donat: half a million

Some missing passages are very flowery:

I have worked through the winter, seen the suffering and death of millions, and have already lived to see the first warm rays of the sun.

Donat's translation is missing the chapter heading for Chapter IX. He just goes from VIII to X.

[Stubble]

Either Wiernik and Krzepicki had and recorded a chronologically identical experience virtually verbatim on arrival, or my brain is cooked. Paragraph after paragraph is the exact same 'event' but with slightly different wording.

There are some differences in the tellings, like Krzepicki goes with the group that has the colored cloth on them (and we find out these are POW's), but, all in all, the same events all happen in the same order...There may be a flourish or flair in one that isn't in the other, but, broadly they are the same step for step.

What, did they get there on the same fucking day? For fucks sake...

[pilgrimofdark]

Either Wiernik and Krzepicki had and recorded a chronologically identical experience virtually verbatim on arrival, or my brain is cooked. Paragraph after paragraph is the exact same 'event' but with slightly different wording.

There are some differences in the tellings, like Krzepicki goes with the group that has the colored cloth on them (and we find out these are POW's), but, all in all, the same events all happen in the same order...There may be a flourish or flair in one that isn't in the other, but, broadly they are the same step for step.

What, did they get there on the same fucking day? For fucks sake...

Both of them also have "drafts" that are handwritten by numerous people and include references to homicidal chlorine

We might have to check the Yiddish version of Krzepicki against Donat and see if anything is worth pointing out.

If YIT is an allegory of the Warsaw Ghetto, 18 Days in Treblinka might be one, too. But written earlier, so before the failed uprising and the more successful April-May 1943 Uprising.