Gilles Karmasyn critique of Rudolf

For more adversarial interactions
M
Monsieur Sceptique
Posts: 14
Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2024 9:12 am

Re: Gilles Karmasyn critique of Rudolf

Post by Monsieur Sceptique »

V. A major scientific negligence by Germar Rudolf: the importance of temperature
Are we at the end of our troubles? Have we seen all of Rudolf’s falsifications regarding the release from the HCN? The answer is negative. There remains the most enormous, the most «beautiful» of Germar Rudolf’s scientific frauds: the temperature.

Rudolf’s release kinetics (that is, the evaporation of HCN) are valid, he says, for temperatures above 20 degrees. Besides, not only is chemical kinetics very strongly influenced by temperature, which can be seen dramatically on the second Irmscher diagram that we reproduced above—Rudolf takes absolutely no account of it, as we have seen (an absolute scientific aberration) — but the boiling temperature of HCN is 26 oC. This means that from 26oC, the HCN behaves like boiling water and evaporates at very high speed, much higher than at lower temperatures, where this speed already seems extraordinarily fast. (contrary to what Rudolf tries to make people believe through falsifications).

It is here that the context of our study of the evaporation of hydrocyanic acid must be recalled: the mass murder by gassing human beings.

For a time, preheating had been planned for certain gas chambers. This can obviously only be explained by the desire to reach or even exceed the boiling temperature of hydrocyanic acid. However, this preheating was not implemented, because if hundreds of naked human beings, whose bodies are at least above 30 oC and the exhaled air at 37 oC, are forced to accumulate in a room where they will end up being crushed against each other by butts, the temperature increases rapidly, widely above 26 oC. Moreover, there are explicit testimonies stating that after having made the Jews enter the gas chamber, one waited, before pouring Zyklon B, for the temperature to be sufficiently high!

This means that in gas chambers, the cyanhydric acid of Zyklon B was exposed to temperatures significantly higher than its boiling point, and therefore evaporated extremely quickly, even faster than what Peters described, as boiling water! This is obviously passed over in silence, 'forgotten' by Germar Rudolf and makes all his quibbles about the evaporation rates of HCN ridiculous. No scientist worthy of the name would dare to neglect the question of temperature in a study relating to an evaporation problem! It would be like spending hours on the evaporation of water at 70oC to understand what happens when we heat it to 120oC! It is good because he is perfectly aware of it—he is not stupid — that Germar Rudolf commits this massive avoidance of the question of temperature. Germar Rudolf is simply, scientifically speaking, a lier.

However, do we really have any precise data on the rate of evaporation of the hydrocyanic acid from Zyklon B? It is clearly not on the side of the negationists that we need to look for them, as we will understand. Historians, they did their work...

Herbert Rauscher was a chemist at Heli, one of the companies specializing in the distribution of Zyklon B during the war. He gave a deposition after the war, in the context of the trial concerning the company Degesch, as a witness for the defence. He was a specialist in HCN and Zyklon B: he therefore mastered his subject. It is therefore not surprising that he provides precise figures for the evaporation rates of the HCN of Zyklon B at 20 degrees (so the speeds in real conditions, in gas chambers, are much faster). Herbert Rauscher provides a particularly interesting figure: at 20 C, 28% of the HCN is released in 5 minutes13. Herbert Rauscher provides information of extreme importance: the figures he puts forward are the result of measurements made during experiments; it is indeed a question here of the reality measured in the laboratory of the rate of evaporation of hydrocyanic acid from Zyklon B14, which explains the precision of the figure he provides.

One can then, obviously, calculate the coefficient k of the exponential evaporation law that we have already seen, the very hypothesis of Rudolf (k = 0.028533501). One can thus trace the curve and calculate the quantities released at 10 minutes, 30 minutes and 2 hours, respectively: 48%, 86%, 100%. You have read well. 48% in 10 minutes, five times more than the figure of 10% proposed without justification by Rudolf, and 86% in 30 minutes, quite the "largest part" of Peters. Once again, these are figures for 20 oC, below the boiling temperature. In a gas chamber, at temperatures above 2C, or very probably even higher than the boiling temperature, the release of hydrocyanic acid must have been lightning-fast, which is obviously confirmed by testimonies.

We are decidedly very far from Rudolf’s flights of fancy. It is then interesting here to compare two of the main curves corresponding to the figures proposed by Rudolf (50% in 30 minutes and 10% in 10 minutes) with the curve corresponding to a data finally real:
(graph)
In summary, it is a festival: Germar Rudolf relies on a vague letter, which he does not quote, to arbitrarily choose a point and then deduce a curve of which he does not justify the shape, advances figures that contradict this curve (10% in 10 minutes, 50% in 30 minutes) and in contradiction between them, not hesitating to falsify a document from 1933 (Peters) to justify one of these figures, abandoning this first falsification to resort to it (by making self-revisionism according to the successive versions of his report) to a second document that he nevertheless, scientifically has no right to invoke, to justify this same figure, while systematically neglecting the most important factor: temperature. All this to outrageously minimize the evaporation rate of hydrocyanic acid in contradiction with the documents issued by experts. Enough to fire any student in any subject from any university! Rudolf is not a scientist, he is a clown.

It’s not over.
VI. Germar Rudolf fools and accomplices of a fake
Let us remember that Germar Rudolf claimed (p. 59) to have two sources. We have seen what the letter of the Detia Freyberg was and «incidentally», how Rudolf treated contemporary documents and science itself. We will now see what the situation is with the second source. Let’s fully quote here what Germar Rudolf writes:

'The information from the second source [168], which comes from the US-Army Chemical Corps, is reproduced in Graph 12. Unfortunately, the source says nothing about the nature of the medium nor about how the product was spread/stacked. At an ambient temperature of about 26 oC, which is the boiling point of hydrocyanic acid, it takes about 9 hours, according to this source, for 80-90% of the hydrocyanic acid to be evaporated» (p. 59)
And here is the «graph 12» of which it accompanies this text, «from the US-Army Chemical Corps»:
(several graph)

Let us now cite the note [168] providing the reference of this graph 'emanating from the US-Army Chemical Corps':

'[168] S. Pinter, Mauthausen-Bericht, © 3/US-Army Chemical Corps, 5.8. '48.' (p. 114)
A first remark about this source: it is strange that a report emanating from the American army is entitled «Bericht» («rapport» in German, and not «report» in English). Stranger is the total absence of archival origin, dimension or precision that would allow us to trace this source. Between an unquoted (and lost) letter and an unverifiable report, Rudolf decidedly takes care of the reliability of his sources...

But before returning to this source, let’s examine the quantitative data. Remember that the reality of the evaporation rate of hydrocyanic acid at 20 C is 28% in 5 minutes, 86% in 30 minutes, 98% in one hour, quantities consistent with the Peters document from 1933 falsified by Rudolf. Here, at 25 C, in 30 minutes, only 6% of HCN would have evaporated! Germar Rudolf produces a diagram that shows figures at least 8 times lower than the reality. Even close to the boiling temperature, the figures provided divide reality at 20 C by 3. It’s all nonsense.

It is obvious that Germar Rudolf drinks whey to exhibit such incredibly slow evaporation rates. So incredibly slow that they are obviously incompatible with the letter from the Detia Freyberg or with the documents Peters and Irmscher, even in their fraudulent presentations by Rudolf! So incredibly slow that Germar Rudolf absolutely does not exploit these curves. He shows them, he is happy, but he does nothing about it and goes his way, the path of inconsistencies and falsifications that we described above, but in which this source does not participate.

Rudolf’s perceptible discomfort in the face of these exaggerations will prove to be more than justified. The name of the alleged author of the report in question would be "S. Pinter". One must be familiar with negationist speeches to recognize a minor negationist, the German-American Stephen F. Pinter. He counts a lot in the eyes of the deniers because this character is said to have participated between 1946 and 1948 as a jurist allied with various procedures against the Germans, notably at Dachau, and that in 1959 he wrote a letter to a local American newspaper, affirming that there had been no gas chambers at Dachau, where he had been stationed.

By Pinter’s own admission, he approached his missions in Europe with the aim of acquiring the most accused Germans. His statements about Dachau, contrary to physical reality, documentation and witness testimony,16 obviously demonstrate that he was either an execrable observer or a purely dishonest character, that his pro-German bias led him to lie. This is not surprising: Franz Sephan Pinter, born in Austria in 1888, is very probably the author, under the name of Hester Warwick, of a very long letter (as long as an article) denying the Holocaust, published in German in the Nazi magazine Der Weg in 195417 in Argentina, where many Nazi executives were present at the time. This letter deployed untruths that have become classic in the negationist arsenal. Der Weg was also used as a 'source' by the negationist Paul Rassinier.


The pedigree of the alleged perpetrator, the absence of any archival information on the provenance of this «Mauthausen Bericht» would be enough to cast doubt on its reliability. It gets a bit more intense when we learn that the information about Stephen F. Pinter having been at the head of a commission allied to Mauthausen comes from Emil Lachout, an old neo-Nazi and negationist who made fake ones, by incidentally lying about his biography, at the end of the 1980s in Germany. Now, what would we learn in 2004, at the deepest depths of a confidential negationist publication? Germar Rudolf held his graph «emanating from the US-Army Chemical Corps» of... Emil Lachout! The nail in the coffin of this hoax was provided by Stephen F. Pinter in person and in advance, since 1974. He then confided to a correspondent: «I had nothing to do with Mauthausen»! Is it useful to add that there is obviously no trace of an allied commission on Mathausen in 1948? Yes. In fine, it is even obvious that Stephen F. Pinter is not the author of any «Mauthausen Bericht». It was anyway a very bad choice from Emil Lachout...

the fact that Rudolf did not reveal from the start the origin of his diagram proves both his dishonesty and the fact that he did not completely believe in its authenticity, while being unable to resist the urge to present, even if it means not really exploiting them, «data» also in accordance (although particularly outrageous) with the direction of its own falsifications.

Rudolf seems to have understood quite early the really too doubtful character of his diagram: it indeed disappears very quickly from the successive editions of the «Rudolf Report». This "disappearance" was obviously not the subject of any comment from Rudolf, whose revelation he received from Lachout comes more than 12 years after its first publication. A rather comical manifestation of Germar Rudolf’s panicked yet discreet retropedalism is to be found in the web/pdf edition of one of his countless publications, here a collection from 1993, written under pseudonym and pompously entitled «Lessons on contemporary history». In the third lesson, a "causerie" on the "physico-chemical" aspects of Auschwitz, Rudolf deploys his usual falsifications. The paper version reproduced the Pinter-Lachout diagram (without saying its origin). The web/pdf version has replaced the diagram with the following comment: "Da die Daten dieser Grafik unfundiert und irreführend sind, wird sie hier nicht dargestellt», namely 'Given the misleading and groundless nature of the data in this graph, it is not reproduced'. Re-ouch. Should we stick the knife in the wound by mentioning that Rudolf repeats his lie about Gerhard Peters there?

Beyond the fraudulent nature of this diagram, one can however notice that it proposes evaporation curve shapes quite coherent with an exponential law, which we think is a reasonable hypothesis. Above all, beyond the delirious durations it offers, there is an interesting piece of information that we already know: the influence of temperature on the evaporation rate. It is particularly noted that above 25 oC (above the boiling temperature?) the evaporation speed is twice as fast as the speed at 25 oC! This is obviously in line with what we were saying above. Besides, this evidence cannot have escaped Germar Rudolf who made the choice to ignore it completely because that, as we pointed out, renders inadmissible all his «reasonings», which silence the temperature factor.

It’s time to wonder what part of truth there could be in these diagrams. Emil Lachout is known to have probably been in possession of authentic documents. But those he made public were altered in order to corroborate the negationist discourse. Could it be that he started from real data to make a diagram visibly «slow»? Germar Rudolf provides us, probably unintentionally, with a lead. In the letter of 2004 by Germar Rudolf, quoted above, excerpt from a confidential negationist publication, he wrote: «Probably by mistake [sic], the evaporation times presented in the diagram are ten times longer than reality». If this is the essence of Rudolf’s thought, what did he say in later versions of his report and exploit the diagram rid of this error? Here is why: (graph)

We have done what Rudolf recommends: divide the durations by ten. We can then make two observations. Finally, there is a curve that corroborates Rudolf’s famous statement, '50 % in 30 minutes': it is the evaporation curve at 25 C (note that this still does not corroborate, of course, '10 % in 10 minutes'). It is nevertheless curious that Rudolf did not wish to use such data. Or not. Because the second observation, spectacular, is the evaporation rate above 25C: very fast. 20% in 5 minutes, 40% in ten minutes, 94% in 30 minutes («the largest part»...). Rudolf cannot afford to publicize such a possibility, stressing the importance of the temperature that he must absolutely overlook to promote his falsified assessment of 10% in 10 minutes. Note that reality (the 1922 patent, Peters & Rauscher) indicates faster evaporation rates than this corrected version of the Rudolf-Lachout-Pinter graph. Last thought experiment as anecdotal as it is edifying (and honestly far-fetched): if we apply to the real data available at 20oC (28% in 5 minutes, 48% in 10 minutes) the observed ratio (on the Lachout-Pinter curve corrected by Rudolf) double for temperatures above the boiling temperature, we obtain... 56% in 5 minutes and 96% in 10 minutes...

It is clear that in reality this diagram is unusable. But Rudolf, while knowing its origin and doubtful character, began by using it and when he gives up, he still thinks that it corresponds to a reality (it is enough to divide the durations by ten), but as in this case, the corrected diagram provides a curve quite contrary to the falsified figures he advances, Rudolf hides the object of the package and falsifies other sources. After having been fooled and complicit by a counterfeiter, Rudolf falls back into the most anti-scientific bad faith. All this is simply risible
The next part is the conclusion but it's don't bring anything about the debate so i will not translate it
M
Monsieur Sceptique
Posts: 14
Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2024 9:12 am

Re: Gilles Karmasyn critique of Rudolf

Post by Monsieur Sceptique »

HansHill wrote: Sun Nov 16, 2025 1:49 pm
Monsieur Sceptique wrote: Sun Nov 16, 2025 12:37 pm Sorry to ask you that you was the guys who debated with, and i will translate it but it's will be a little bit long and i can't continue today to translate it
That's fine MS, thank you for this attempt at translating, i wasn't expecting this of you so it is appreciated. I will collate these together into a word doc and review it as the translations appear.
The total translation is finish you can see there
User avatar
HansHill
Posts: 1207
Joined: Sun Oct 06, 2024 3:06 pm
Location: Arlen, TX

Re: Gilles Karmasyn critique of Rudolf

Post by HansHill »

Monsieur Sceptique wrote: Sun Nov 16, 2025 11:52 am Contrary to what he himself and the sycophant Holocaust deniers claim, Germar Rudolf does not do true science and uses the usual negationist processes, lies and various falsifications, and this from his first publications.
Thanks for the translation MS, i have collated everything and I will spend a bit of time to read through it, and if there's anything of note i feel I can satisfactorily respond with, then I will. I did just want to highlight something to the forum, though, and it's from the very first paragraph of MS's translation. While I have to take MS at his word that he is neutural in this endeavour, I was struck by the sentence above. The original as per Gilles Karmasyn in French is as follows:
Germar Rudolf ne fait pas de véritable science et use des procédés négationnistes habituels, mensonges et falsifications diverses.
Which as per two different translation methods produce:
Contrary to what he and the Holocaust denialists claim, Germar Rudolf does not do any real science and uses the usual negationist procedures, lies and various falsifications.

Google
Contrary to what he himself and the denialist supporters claim, Germar Rudolf does not do real science and uses the usual denialist methods.

Chat GPT
I am interested to see where the use of the superlative "sycophantic" comes from, as it is not immediately obvious where this originated? Am i correct in saying this is absent from the original, and therefore was editorialized by you? Are you calling Germar Rudolf a sycophant, or just his supporters? Does that include us? How are we to interpret this approach through the lens of neutrality? I don't want to get too bogged down in things like this, but the forum should be made aware when something like this becomes apparent.
p
pilgrimofdark
Posts: 168
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2025 7:46 pm

Re: Gilles Karmasyn critique of Rudolf

Post by pilgrimofdark »

It's in the original link:
Contrairement à ce que lui-même et les thuriféraires négationnistes affirment, Germar Rudolf ne fait pas de véritable science et use des procédés négationnistes habituels, mensonges et falsifications diverses, et ce dès ses premières publications.

https://phdn.org/negation/rudolf/rudolf ... tions.html
thuriféraire {m/f} - flatterer - incense-bearer - sycophant

https://en.bab.la/dictionary/french-eng ... C3%A9raire

I read it as Karmasyn calling Germar's supporters as sycophants.
User avatar
HansHill
Posts: 1207
Joined: Sun Oct 06, 2024 3:06 pm
Location: Arlen, TX

Re: Gilles Karmasyn critique of Rudolf

Post by HansHill »

Ad hominems aside, I actually don't have much else to add other than what Wetzelrad and CF have already contributed, that covers most of it, at least from my perspective, although I will add a couple of minor points to drive the thread forward.

Karmasyn, like Dr Green, has neglected two variables in the rate of evaporation in their analysis. These are:

1 - humidity, and
2 - spacing of the pellets

1 - Dr Green touches on this in his postscript to his article Chemistry Is Not The Science. The relevant section, is as follows:
Later in his response Rudolf states:

concentrations of HCN similar to delousing procedures would have been necessary to kill the alleged victims in the time as testified by all "witnesses", basing mainly on the data we can get from capital punishment in the USA

As we explicity [sic] point out that we make exactly such an assumption, we can only conclude that either Rudolf has not read our article, has not understood it, or misrepresents it. Regarding the ability of moisture to slow down the evaporation of HCN, we have not ignored that fact. We acknowledge that it is difficult to quantify, but point out that in actuality, the Zyklon B was heated beyond the temperatures assumed in our work.1 We actually assumed a worst case scenario.
The citation I have marked in red, is to 193 of John Zimmerman's forthcoming book, Holocaust Denial: Demographics, Testimonies and Ideologies, University Press of America, 2000. . There is absolutely no mention anywhere else in the Green article about humidity, and certainly not in the Zimmerman book. Zimmerman's book touches briefly on pre-heating. If Green wants to make a point about pre-heating negates humidity, he has failed as far as the reader can see.

That is Dr Green, and unfortunately, Karmasyn performs even worse (in his original paper) by failing to even address it. To drive this point home, and to avoid any potential rebuttal that this variable is somehow irrelevant for our purposes, the Irmscher study was specifically performed at low relative humidity.

It feels like Karmasyn realized this blunder, and later addressed humidity in his 2020 post script, which MS has not yet translated for us, but Wetzelrad has already exposed neatly.

While on the topic of Karmasyn's postscript, one thing has caught my eye.
In his earlier versions, Rudolf insisted that rather low temperatures should prevail (a factor that, according to him, would favor the formation of Prussian blue). Germar Rudolf obviously becomes—hypocritically—silent when he has to acknowledge a higher temperature and does not draw the conclusion he should from his previous statement, namely that such temperatures should be unfavorable to the formation of Prussian blue… Never does Germar Rudolf mention or justify his flip-flops.
As MS has not (yet?) translated this for us, i used ChatGPT. The above passage seems to be an attempt to perform a gotcha on Germar Rudolf, in that the ambient body heat of the 2,000 people in the room will raise the temperature of the walls & ceiling to the Goldilocks range for PB formation to cease from occurring, and expecting to draw a comment from Rudolf on this.

This is so unbelievably stupid, that it belies Karmasyn's lack of clarity of thought here. The idea that the ambient air temperature, affected by the presence of 2,000 people in a room for 30 minutes, will have any meaningful impact on the temperature of the concrete ceiling and brick walls, is ridiculous.

https://www.concretecentre.com/Performa ... -Mass.aspx

2 - spacing of the pellets

Here Karmasyn laughs and smugly ignores that the spacing of the pellets as being relevant to our simulations, but he doesn't really tell us why, in fact he tells us he doesn't need to explain it, at all.
It no longer seems necessary to provide a detailed demonstration here of the absurdity of these excuses, given that we have already proven that Rudolf never hesitated to lie to twist scientific reality.
Not quite, mr Karmasyn. The spacing and configuration of the pellets were seemingly important enough of a variable to Irmscher to declare the fine spacing in his methodology, but not important enough for Karmasyn to address when applying a practically different arrangement than the Irmscher models.

This is beyond poor, and is in fact utterly disingenuous.

**Edit

I also find it humourous and annoying that neither Dr Green nor Karmasyn bothered to address humidity in their original works, both opting to briefly touch on it within post scripts. There is nothing wrong with this necessarily, and a work can, and should be updated across time should new arguments come into focus. However this is exactly what Karmasyn attacks Rudolf over, for updating his works across the timespan of three decades. Bizarre.

**Edit x 2

Expanding on the implied temperature as limiting factor for PB formation argument from Karmasyn, he seems to be deviating from Green on this point, who firmly plants his flag in the pH and exposure time as limiting factor camp. This implies Karmasyn is open to the idea of PB forming at slightly lower temperatures under the pH levels and exposure time conditions described.

Another blunder!
Last edited by HansHill on Sun Nov 23, 2025 7:54 pm, edited 3 times in total.
User avatar
HansHill
Posts: 1207
Joined: Sun Oct 06, 2024 3:06 pm
Location: Arlen, TX

Re: Gilles Karmasyn critique of Rudolf

Post by HansHill »

pilgrimofdark wrote: Sun Nov 23, 2025 5:13 pm It's in the original link:
Contrairement à ce que lui-même et les thuriféraires négationnistes affirment, Germar Rudolf ne fait pas de véritable science et use des procédés négationnistes habituels, mensonges et falsifications diverses, et ce dès ses premières publications.

https://phdn.org/negation/rudolf/rudolf ... tions.html
thuriféraire {m/f} - flatterer - incense-bearer - sycophant

https://en.bab.la/dictionary/french-eng ... C3%A9raire

I read it as Karmasyn calling Germar's supporters as sycophants.
Thanks Pilgrim, i see that now. Interesting I have tried yet another LLM to translate it, and it still will not give me that more hostile translation. From Perplexity:
Contrary to what he himself and negationist supporters claim, Germar Rudolf does not engage in genuine science and uses the usual negationist methods—lies and various falsifications—from his very first publications. A profile and complete biography can be found in [this section](https://phdn.org/negation/rudolf/index.html).
M
Monsieur Sceptique
Posts: 14
Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2024 9:12 am

Re: Gilles Karmasyn critique of Rudolf

Post by Monsieur Sceptique »

HansHill wrote: Sun Nov 23, 2025 1:27 pm
Monsieur Sceptique wrote: Sun Nov 16, 2025 11:52 am Contrary to what he himself and the sycophant Holocaust deniers claim, Germar Rudolf does not do true science and uses the usual negationist processes, lies and various falsifications, and this from his first publications.
Thanks for the translation MS, i have collated everything and I will spend a bit of time to read through it, and if there's anything of note i feel I can satisfactorily respond with, then I will. I did just want to highlight something to the forum, though, and it's from the very first paragraph of MS's translation. While I have to take MS at his word that he is neutural in this endeavour, I was struck by the sentence above. The original as per Gilles Karmasyn in French is as follows:
Germar Rudolf ne fait pas de véritable science et use des procédés négationnistes habituels, mensonges et falsifications diverses.
Which as per two different translation methods produce:
Contrary to what he and the Holocaust denialists claim, Germar Rudolf does not do any real science and uses the usual negationist procedures, lies and various falsifications.

Google
Contrary to what he himself and the denialist supporters claim, Germar Rudolf does not do real science and uses the usual denialist methods.

Chat GPT
I am interested to see where the use of the superlative "sycophantic" comes from, as it is not immediately obvious where this originated? Am i correct in saying this is absent from the original, and therefore was editorialized by you? Are you calling Germar Rudolf a sycophant, or just his supporters? Does that include us? How are we to interpret this approach through the lens of neutrality? I don't want to get too bogged down in things like this, but the forum should be made aware when something like this becomes apparent.
The word thuriféraire have multiple synonym in french (Flatteur, Laudateur, Encenseur, Flagorneur, Se pavaner(Walk with vanity), i could translate it as follow in english = flatterer, sycophant or eulogist. In the context of the sentence, Thuriféraire was very pejorative and flatterer was not enough strong so i choose sycophant. But you can use supporter or apologist(but in the context of sentence, it's will be more to support blindly like a sect), it's perhaps a error of my translation but i attempt to translate it correctly. It's not my word but Gilles Word. if i use the sentence in Deepl by example "ce monsieur agit comme un thuriféraire" it's will give me in english "this gentleman acts like a sycophant"
M
Monsieur Sceptique
Posts: 14
Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2024 9:12 am

Re: Gilles Karmasyn critique of Rudolf

Post by Monsieur Sceptique »

pilgrimofdark wrote: Sun Nov 23, 2025 5:13 pm It's in the original link:
Contrairement à ce que lui-même et les thuriféraires négationnistes affirment, Germar Rudolf ne fait pas de véritable science et use des procédés négationnistes habituels, mensonges et falsifications diverses, et ce dès ses premières publications.

https://phdn.org/negation/rudolf/rudolf ... tions.html
thuriféraire {m/f} - flatterer - incense-bearer - sycophant

https://en.bab.la/dictionary/french-eng ... C3%A9raire

I read it as Karmasyn calling Germar's supporters as sycophants.
Exactly, the word Thuriféraire is used in this case as a qualifying adjective. Otherwise, he would have used the following phrases: ‘Les négationnistes’ (the deniers) or ‘les supporter du négationnisme’ (the supporters of denialism). But I highly doubt it, given how insulting the article is, that he used it in the sense of supporters. Even in french wikipedia they say when it's used in Figurative way, it's insulting https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thurif%C3 ... igur%C3%A9
p
pilgrimofdark
Posts: 168
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2025 7:46 pm

Re: Gilles Karmasyn critique of Rudolf

Post by pilgrimofdark »

HansHill wrote: Sun Nov 23, 2025 5:40 pm Interesting I have tried yet another LLM to translate it, and it still will not give me that more hostile translation.
Hans, you might have uncovered something new about AI translation. I ran into the same issue using a couple AI translators.

AI may be programmed to "prefer" less-pejorative definitions of words. It softens the language and presents a more "agreeable" translation, even if it's not accurate to the connotation of the phrase the author used.

So we get "negationist supporters" instead of "sycophantic Holocaust deniers."

"Negationist supporters" is almost defensible, although slightly pejorative. "Sycophantic Holocaust deniers" exposes Karmasyn's extreme bias, rendering all of his analysis and conclusions suspect.

Also, thank you to Monsieur Sceptique for the translation.
Last edited by pilgrimofdark on Mon Nov 24, 2025 9:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
M
Monsieur Sceptique
Posts: 14
Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2024 9:12 am

Re: Gilles Karmasyn critique of Rudolf

Post by Monsieur Sceptique »

pilgrimofdark wrote: Mon Nov 24, 2025 3:07 pm
HansHill wrote: Sun Nov 23, 2025 5:40 pm Interesting I have tried yet another LLM to translate it, and it still will not give me that more hostile translation.
Hans, you might have uncovered something new about AI translation. I ran into the same issue using a couple AI translators.

AI may be programmed to "prefer" less-pejorative definitions of words. It softens the language and presents a more "agreeable" translation, even if it's not accurate to the connotation of the phrase the author used.

So we get "negationist supporters" instead of "sycophantic Holocaust deniers."

"Negationist supports" is almost defensible, although slightly pejorative. "Sycophantic Holocaust deniers" exposes Karmasyn's extreme bias, rendering all of his analysis and conclusions suspect.

Also, thank you to Monsieur Sceptique for the translation.
AI developers have developed and implemented moral barriers in their code to prevent AI from doing anything inappropriate. As a result, they avoid offensive language in their code, which is why they avoid responding to things that are considered immoral. If you go against his programme and his morality, he will give you a speech about his morality and the fact that he follows a line of benevolence. In other words, the designers have incorporated their ideological biases into their AI. That's why he avoids using certain words or subject.
User avatar
Archie
Site Admin
Posts: 1223
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2024 6:54 am

Re: Gilles Karmasyn critique of Rudolf

Post by Archie »

As a bit of advice to any Holocaust apologists reading: the over-the-top bluster and overtly hostile language is not the best approach, imo. By the time someone is familiar enough with revisionism to know who Germar Rudolf is and is looking for rebuttals, it's too late for well poisoning to work. That works okay in the mainstream media where you can assume people have not heard any revisionist arguments. But it doesn't work on people who are at least someone informed. It will backfire, more often than not. If I read Germar's coolheaded analysis and then read some hysterical and obviously very emotional response, it's hard to take it seriously.
Incredulity Enthusiast
Post Reply