Name a Single Jew Transited Through the Reinhardt Camps To The East!

[bombsaway]

Is it necessary for all, even small transports to be documented? We don't know who he was sent to Minsk with, he says 50 people?

I think what you have here is a 'maybe' went through Treblinka

He wasn't a candidate for resettlement as he was clearly a strong and hardy worker

Himmler's note about resettlement of the GG makes clear this was for non-working Jews.

Oh now all deportations to the East don't have to be documented. Interesting.

Even if it was mostly Jews unable to work that were deported, it doesn't follow all of them were. Plenty of Jews able to work were exterminated according to orthodoxy. They may also have needed labor in Minsk for whatever reason.

Appealing to possibility won't get you far here. Sure, it's possible, but do you have any evidence to make it probable?

But you're no better, since you have no evidence he was on the September transport, or the mysterious transport he was on went to minsk with t2 stopover

[fireofice]

But you're no better, since you have no evidence he was on the September transport, or the mysterious transport he was on went to minsk with t2 stopover

The evidence is that that's the last known transport, so that's probably what he was on.

However, even though I am convinced that this counts as a transit through Treblinka, the fact that we have a maybe (your words) takes the wind out of your argument. The original claim is that we can't name anyone. If we have a plausible case for one, even if we can't demonstrate it as more probable than not to your satisfaction, still destroys your argument.

[bombsaway]

But you're no better, since you have no evidence he was on the September transport, or the mysterious transport he was on went to minsk with t2 stopover

The evidence is that that's the last known transport, so that's probably what he was on.

However, even though I am convinced that this counts as a transit through Treblinka, the fact that we have a maybe (your words) takes the wind out of your argument. The original claim is that we can't name anyone. If we have a plausible case for one, even if we can't demonstrate it as more probable than not to your satisfaction, still destroys your argument.

The evidence is not that it is the last, it's just the last known major transport. Distinction there. There's no evidence he was on a major transport. He also mentioned stopovers in other camps but there's nothing about Treblinka.

[fireofice]

The evidence is not that it is the last, it's just the last known major transport. Distinction there. There's no evidence he was on a major transport. He also mentioned stopovers in other camps but there's nothing about Treblinka.

It's the last known transport period. So yes, the evidence is that he says he was deported from the Warsaw Ghetto around September because that's the last known transport, big or small. Memories which are subject to mistakes, things like that after 50 years is not very good evidence. Unless you find record of another transport, that's where we're at. And he doesn't have to mention Treblinka. We can make inferences.

It's funny how any absurdity in testimony can be brushed over as a minor mistake (even when it's anything but minor) but an actual minor mistake that actually can be easily explained like this is not something you can contemplate.

[Nessie]

It's funny how any absurdity in testimony can be brushed over as a minor mistake (even when it's anything but minor) but an actual minor mistake that actually can be easily explained like this is not something you can contemplate.

It is not funny, that so-called revisionists make no effort to learn about witnesses and witness evidence. That error on their part, leads them to make multiple mistakes, when understanding and interpreting what witnesses stated. You do not even get the basics, as to what is likely a mistake in recall, description, or estimation, or how to differentiate between hearsay and eyewitnesses.

[bombsaway]

The evidence is not that it is the last, it's just the last known major transport. Distinction there. There's no evidence he was on a major transport. He also mentioned stopovers in other camps but there's nothing about Treblinka.

It's the last known transport period. So yes, the evidence is that he says he was deported from the Warsaw Ghetto around September because that's the last known transport, big or small. Memories which are subject to mistakes, things like that after 50 years is not very good evidence. Unless you find record of another transport, that's where we're at. And he doesn't have to mention Treblinka. We can make inferences.

It's funny how any absurdity in testimony can be brushed over as a minor mistake (even when it's anything but minor) but an actual minor mistake that actually can be easily explained like this is not something you can contemplate.

Within orthodoxy I don't know if anyone would say for sure that no Jews passed through these camps and ended up in Russia. We know that people went through these camps and were requisitioned for labor in Poland. It's possible a few were diverted to labor in Russia. If true, this would hardly contradict the main narrative.

The point of the challenge is actually to show the dearth of evidence for the revisionist side. You have 1.5 million Jews that were supposedly transported through these camps and into Russia, and the best evidence you an "inference".

[fireofice]

Within orthodoxy I don't know if anyone would say for sure that no Jews passed through these camps and ended up in Russia. We know that people went through these camps and were requisitioned for labor in Poland. It's possible a few were diverted to labor in Russia. If true, this would hardly contradict the main narrative.

The point of the challenge is actually to show the dearth of evidence for the revisionist side. You have 1.5 million Jews that were supposedly transported through these camps and into Russia, and the best evidence you an "inference".

Well the challenge has been to find one. If now you are going to shift the goal post to "well actually it should be more" this is a separate claim that I'm not really addressing here.

You think the sun will rise every morning because it has happened in the past. But that's just "inference". You think you have science to know how the world works, but science is just "inference" based on past observation. That's really the best you got? Sad!

[bombsaway]

Within orthodoxy I don't know if anyone would say for sure that no Jews passed through these camps and ended up in Russia. We know that people went through these camps and were requisitioned for labor in Poland. It's possible a few were diverted to labor in Russia. If true, this would hardly contradict the main narrative.

The point of the challenge is actually to show the dearth of evidence for the revisionist side. You have 1.5 million Jews that were supposedly transported through these camps and into Russia, and the best evidence you an "inference".

Well the challenge has been to find one. If now you are going to shift the goal post to "well actually it should be more" this is a separate claim that I'm not really addressing here.

You think the sun will rise every morning because it has happened in the past. But that's just "inference". You think you have science to know how the world works, but science is just "inference" based on past observation. That's really the best you got? Sad!

Are you saying you have as much certainty this guy stopped at Treblinka as the sun will rise? I don't think a historian would say a guy stopped somewhere without direct evidence of this existing. There are gaps in the record, which an honest historian will know cast doubt on any firm conclusions about things.

[Hektor]

Jack Spiegel
....

By October 1942 the great evacuation of the Warsaw Ghetto had ceased. However, the last Jewish transport from Warsaw in 1942 departed on 21 September (carrying 2,196 Jews). According to mainstream historians these Jews were gassed at Treblinka. Could it be that Jack Spiegel was part of the 21 September 1942 convoy but erroneously remembered the departure as having taken place in October? It seems very unlikely, on the other hand, that Spiegel would have erroneously recalled a May or July transport as having taken place in October.

https://codoh.com/library/document/evid ... st-part-3/

The actual interview can be found here:

https://collections.ushmm.org/search/catalog/irn504781

The relevant part starts at 37:45, and you can confirm that the description is indeed accurate.

Now yes, he doesn't technically say he went through one of the Reinhard camps, but it's completely reasonable to think he did get transited through Treblinka to Minsk. That is the default assumption unless it can be shown otherwise. Given the surrounding evidence and timing of a train sent from the Warsaw Ghetto to Treblinka (he likely confused September and October), the burden of proof is now on the orthodoxy to prove he didn't go through it.

If people were transferred via train from West to East through e.g. Treblinka... Do you think they'd recall being in Treblinka decades later? Would they even be bothering telling that anyone, assuming that they started a new life somewhere else?

[Nessie]

...
If people were transferred via train from West to East through e.g. Treblinka... Do you think they'd recall being in Treblinka decades later? Would they even be bothering telling that anyone, assuming that they started a new life somewhere else?

People stuck on transports, with the Nazis not supplying them with information about where they were going, who, going by witness statements, could have been in a camp for a short time, and were in multiple camps, are not going to be reliable, when they recall what camps they were at, decades later.

There are no documents, which would be a more reliable source of evidence, that record transports via TII.

[Keen]

Jack Spiegel
....

By October 1942 the great evacuation of the Warsaw Ghetto had ceased. However, the last Jewish transport from Warsaw in 1942 departed on 21 September (carrying 2,196 Jews). According to mainstream historians these Jews were gassed at Treblinka. Could it be that Jack Spiegel was part of the 21 September 1942 convoy but erroneously remembered the departure as having taken place in October? It seems very unlikely, on the other hand, that Spiegel would have erroneously recalled a May or July transport as having taken place in October.

https://codoh.com/library/document/evid ... st-part-3/

The actual interview can be found here:

https://collections.ushmm.org/search/catalog/irn504781

The relevant part starts at 37:45, and you can confirm that the description is indeed accurate.

Now yes, he doesn't technically say he went through one of the Reinhard camps, but it's completely reasonable to think he did get transited through Treblinka to Minsk. That is the default assumption unless it can be shown otherwise. Given the surrounding evidence and timing of a train sent from the Warsaw Ghetto to Treblinka (he likely confused September and October), the burden of proof is now on the orthodoxy to prove he didn't go through it.

If people were transferred via train from West to East through e.g. Treblinka... Do you think they'd recall being in Treblinka decades later? Would they even be bothering telling that anyone, assuming that they started a new life somewhere else?

Of course the could, and would. We know that is a fact because they did:

[Nessie]

Witness memory, of what camps they were transited through, or spent little time in, will be poor. Camp records of prisoners and transports is a better level of evidence.

[Keen]

Witness memory, of what camps they were transited through, or spent little time in, will be poor. Camp records of prisoners and transports is a better level of evidence.

Look at Roberto pretend that there is no elephant in his basement!