"56 Olympic Swimming Pools" and Treblinka (Nessie's logic)

[Nessie]

You have... refus[ed] to answer my questions.

Let's see the list of questions that you have asked me that I have dodged.

I have not kept a list of the questions you have failed to answer. I can start one now.

1 - What volume of disturbed ground do you accept is at TII?
2 - What does that disturbed ground (assuming you do not claim there is no disturbed ground) contain?

Show your evidence with your answers.

[Nessie]

.

The chutzpah. I find it is things like this that red pills a normie the most on the Holocaust; actually seeing the claims and evidence for what they are. I bet most normies just sort of assume there were big piles of gassed bodies that were all counted and tallied to 6,000,000 after the war. This might sound silly to us, but this is how people think, especially uninformed people.

To be shown this as the evidence for the most documented and evil crime in all of history, is so bewildering and unsatisfactory, it would leave the person completely baffled as to where the rest of it is. Nessie would want to be careful with his slop about 56 swimming pools to normies on Twitter, lest some normie actually go looking for 56 swimming pools filled with bodies

I think that the vast majority of people would understand what is meant by the ground, where the main mass graves at TII are located, is equivalent to 56 Olympic sized swimming pools.

[Keen]

....

If you agree to my easy to comply with requests about politeness, mis-gendering and answering my questions, and I will answer those questions. (They have already been answered, to others).

Look at Roberta run! (As it delusionally say's it's not running!)



Just like it ran away from Mr. Gerdes!

Everyone can see it is you who runs from the form of debate that everyone else here manages. You are too scared to debate me, in the way everyone else does.

https://codohforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=14176#p14176

[Keen]

You have... refus[ed] to answer my questions.

Let's see the list of questions that you have asked me prior to today that I have dodged.

[Keen]

You have... refus[ed] to answer my questions.

Let's see the list of questions that you have asked me that I have dodged.

I have not kept a list of the questions you have failed to answer. I can start one now.

1 - What volume of disturbed ground do you accept is at TII?







2 - What does that disturbed ground (assuming you do not claim there is no disturbed ground) contain?







Show your evidence with your answers.

Is it - True. - or - False. - that; Non-nefarious diggings for such things as garbage pits, cellars, wells, latrines, septic pits, etc. - were dug at Treblinka II - ??

Is it - True. - or - False. - that; Archaeologists can easily distinguish a garbage pit from a mass grave?



How many actual mass graves did CSC actually prove actually exist within the boundary of the Treblinka II camp?

Of the 15 alleged Treblinka II graves / cremation pits in question - the one that you can conclusively prove currently contains the most human remains is number: _?_.

[Nessie]

Let's see the list of questions that you have asked me that I have dodged.

I have not kept a list of the questions you have failed to answer. I can start one now.

1 - What volume of disturbed ground do you accept is at TII?



2 - What does that disturbed ground (assuming you do not claim there is no disturbed ground) contain?



Show your evidence with your answers.

Is it - True. - or - False. - that; Non-nefarious diggings for such things as garbage pits, cellars, wells, latrines, septic pits, etc. - were dug at Treblinka II - ??

True

Is it - True. - or - False. - that; Archaeologists can easily distinguish a garbage pit from a mass grave?

True, assuming they excavate. Non-invasive surveys are less definitive.

How many actual mass graves did CSC actually prove actually exist within the boundary of the Treblinka II camp?

There are 11 that are in the areas of the camp where witnesses described mass graves being located.

Of the 15 alleged Treblinka II graves / cremation pits in question - the one that you can conclusively prove currently contains the most human remains is number: _?_.

I don't know, but it stands to reason it will be which ever is the largest.

1 - Where do you get the 15 graves/cremation pits from?
2 - Rather than post a photo, please state what you say is the volume of disturbed ground at TII?
3 - Rather than post a photo, please state what is buried in the disturbed ground?

[Keen]

You have... refus[ed] to answer my questions.

Let's see the list of questions that you have asked me prior to today that I have dodged.

[Keen]

Is it - True. - or - False. - that; Non-nefarious diggings for such things as garbage pits, cellars, wells, latrines, septic pits, etc. - were dug at Treblinka II - ??

True

Is it - True. - or - False. - that; Archaeologists can easily distinguish a garbage pit from a mass grave?

True, assuming they excavate. Non-invasive surveys are less definitive.

How many actual mass graves did CSC actually prove actually exist within the boundary of the Treblinka II camp?

An acceptable answer will be one of the following:

0., 1., 2., 3., 4., 5., 6., 7., 8., 9., 10., 11., 12., 13., 14. or 15.

There are 11 that are in the areas of the camp where witnesses described mass graves being located.

Of the 15 alleged Treblinka II graves / cremation pits in question - the one that you can conclusively prove currently contains the most human remains is number: _?_.

An acceptable answer will be one of the following:

CSC G50 = The H.A.H.C. "huge mass grave" #1/77

CSC G54 = The H.A.H.C. "huge mass grave" #2/78

CSC G53 = The H.A.H.C. "huge mass grave" #3/79

CSC G52 = The H.A.H.C. "huge mass grave" #4/80

CSC G51 = The H.A.H.C. "huge mass grave" #5/81

CSC F1 = The H.A.H.C. "huge mass grave" #6/82

CSC G44 = The H.A.H.C. "huge mass grave" #7/83

CSC G1 = The H.A.H.C. "huge mass grave" #8/84

CSC G4 = The H.A.H.C. "huge mass grave" #9/85

CSC G38 = The H.A.H.C. "huge mass grave" #10/86

CSC F16 = The H.A.H.C. "huge mass grave" #11/87

CSC F9 = The H.A.H.C. "huge mass grave" #12/88

CSC G29 = The H.A.H.C. "huge mass grave" #13/89

CSC G32 = The H.A.H.C. "huge mass grave" #14/90

CSC G36 = The H.A.H.C. "huge mass grave" #15/91

I don't know, but it stands to reason it will be which ever is the largest.

Answer the questions as they are asked.

[Archie]

You fail to recognise hyperbole from the witnesses, so of course you did not recognise it from me. That identifiable human remains were being recovered at TII in 1959, so that they had to construct a huge memorial to cover the remains up, is circumstantial evidence of mass burials. Look at the size of the memorials at Sobibor and Majdanek, where remains were gathered and interred. Belzec was left open, but has had to be covered over like TII, because of scattered remains.

You cannot round the sheer size of the sites and the scale of archaeological finds. You deceive yourself, pretending there is not much to see and little evidence to prove mass graves.

So when you've said repeatedly that there abundant physical proof that millions were killed at these camps, you were engaged in "hyperbole"? And we should be content with "circumstantial evidence of mass burials"? What does that even mean?

The Majdanek example severely undermines you because we see there that the Communists (the Russians and the Poles) claimed over a million killed and claimed huge amounts of ash and remains. The real death toll was well below 100,000, i.e., they were lying. Yet you want us to take it on faith that these same exact people have reliably reported "2 hectares of human remains" at Treblinka.

[Callafangers]

This is not an argument. Your "2 hectares" claim or any claim to even hundreds -- let alone thousands or hundreds of thousands -- of corpses/Jews specifically (not just 'disturbances') comes entirely from Judge L and his clique.

What about the evidence from the initial Soviet investigation, the grave robbing, when the memorial was built and later reports of cremains being found on the surface of the ground? Why are you missing all of that evidence out? Stop cherry picking.

There is a reason you keep referring to "evidence" that you do not quantify. It's because the "evidence" you are citing amounts to a quantity of zero actual corpses.

This is a question, not an argument, and yes -- you are doing all of this.

I am not using the evidence from Lukaszkiewicz alone, to determine the death toll. That comes from Nazi documents and witness estimations.

If this is your evidence for what is actually underground at Treblinka, whereas Lukaszkiewicz reports "innumerable" craters and holes filled with non-corpses, then you are in deeper trouble than you realize.

Are you really conceding that out of "innumerable" diggings between Lukaszkiewicz, Sturdy-Colls, and others, the total number of corpses actually disinterred or specifically measured in any way has been countable in the dozens or hundreds at most?

Are there no other archaeological surveys which contribute to a larger tally? Nothing at all?

I have physical evidence from the camp site surveys, from what the grave robbers disturbed and from the building of the memorial, to corroborate the eyewitnesses. Then there is the circumstantial evidence of mass arrivals, with no corresponding mass departures.

I get abused by people who hate it, that I easily catch them out, making mistakes and picking holes in their logically flawed arguments. I also get censored, with posts being removed from threads. That tells me I have won the debate.

Nessie, this is "cringe". You are not a victim and you are neither heroic nor a "winner" LOL. To the mainstream, they likely find you weird for spending so much time with "deniers". And for us, you are a punching bag. That's your life.

Witnesses making claims of 5 billion corpses coupled with actual diggings/findings of just ~100 corpses does not mean there are 5 billion corpses underground. Wouldn't you agree?

Here again is the only relevant quote from Judge L about the "excavations" in question. We'll let the readers decide whether or not multiple craters are being excavated, here:

The largest of the craters produced by explosions (numerous fragments attest to the fact that these explosions were set off by bombs), which is at maximum 6 meters deep and has a diameter of about 25 meters – its walls give recognizable evidence of the presence of a large quantity of ashes as well as human remains – was further excavated in order to discover the depth of the pit in this part of the camp. Numerous human remains were found by these excavations, partially still in a state of decomposition.[208] The soil consists of ashes interspersed with sand, is of a dark gray color and granulous in form. During the excavations, the soil gave off an intense odor of burning and decay. At a depth of 7.5 meters the bottom was reached, which consisted of layers of unmixed sand. At this point the digging was stopped here.

For the record:

• The text refers specifically to "the largest of the craters" as a singular entity that "was further excavated", indicating that only one primary crater is being discussed.
• Plural terms like "these excavations" and "during the excavations" describe multiple digging activities, but these are contextualized within the singular crater (e.g., to probe its depth and walls).
• No explicit mention or description of excavating other craters; the narrative centers solely on this one (noted as the largest among implied multiples), stopping at its 7.5-meter bottom.

No reasonable person can see this any other way. It just isn't there.

He talks about different excavations, on different days, some of which result in the finding of buried property and no buried remains. The day they excavate in the 2 hectare area, he talks about craters and excavations, both plural, so more than one crater is dug into. He concentrates on the largest. [...]

...the use of plural makes sense, when there were multiple craters and excavations. You are trying to avoid admitting that the craters exposing ground that had been covered over, is evidence of the scale of the area where the Nazis had the mass graves.

Nessie, break down what specific words or phrases could be interpreted to imply he is referring to multiple craters regarding the excavations which produced corpse material of any kind.

I did exactly that, above (showing the opposite), so you need to attempt the same. Be serious for once.

The "2 hectares" fantasy is dead, Nessie. The only reference to this "2 hectares" area is Judge L mentioning that this is the surface area across which ash/remains/sand was scattered due to the bomb that exploded a massive crater which had corpses in it -- the sole location where corpses were found at all.

For that to be the case, the Nazis would have buried all the dead in one grave, that somehow, the Soviets found, and blew up, leaving scattered remains on the surface around that grave, on ground that had never been dug into. Where is your evidence of that? How does that fit with all the eyewitnesses who describe multiple graves and the geophysics that located 5 pits?

The bottom-line is that the largest explosion evident on-site per Judge Lukaszkiewicz is also the only place where it's documented that corpses were identified in significant numbers underground -- period. It is documented that an explosion happened in this exact location, and the reported blast radius is what we would expect from an explosion of this size (25m x 6m blast ejecting material over a surface area of about 2 hectares). Meanwhile, there is zero mention of corpses being underground anywhere else at all, while Judge L makes clear that underneath this largest crater was the especially-interesting findings of a mass grave layered with sand (and soil).

Again, if you are going to disagree with the explicit phrasing about corpse excavations only occurring at this single site, you need to show exactly what statements could even possibly be interpreted this way by any reasonable person.

Otherwise, it's more hot air.

The evidence of the 2 hectare area comes from

- the 1944 aerial photo
- eyewitness maps showing the area of multiple graves
- eyewitness descriptions of the main grave area
- Lukaszkiewicz's finds
- the 2011 geophysical survey

There we go, at least we now have a breakdown of your delusion. Thank you.

• The 1944 aerial photo shows nothing of corpses or mass grave operations
• The eyewitness maps are just as compatible with claims by embittered Jews and other conflicted interests and are disproportionate (insufficient) as evidence for the allegations
• Lukaszkiewicz's finds do not mention corpses anywhere other than underneath a single crater which blew up across a surface area of two hectares. The language used is unmistakable as such.
• The 2011 survey did not report corpses but 'disturbances' for which it is already well-documented by Lukaszkiewicz and his team that these were "innumerable" and not filled with corpses (instead had rags, kitchenware, clothing, coins, furniture, and various junk property)

Nazi documents record the arrival of c850,000 at the camp, with evidence only a few thousand left after worker selections. Eyewitnesses, made up from local Poles, Nazi camp staff and Jewish prisoners, all describe mass arrivals and none describe any departures. Estimations of how many died at the camp, run into over a million. You cherry pick and ignore that evidence. You then pretend that I only have evidence of limited disturbed ground and buried remains. Your entire, unevidenced argument, is based on a self-deception.

No one in their right mind is going to think that some documentation hinting at arrivals of Jews to these camps necessarily means hundreds of thousands of them are buried underground in places where they were never found despite "innumerable" diggings.

You cannot explain how it's possible that your 800,000 Jews are actually underground there, and we have a clear pattern of dishonest witnesses telling inconsistent or fabricated stories, yet you remain steadfast in your belief that somehow, someway the corpses are indeed there.

So, where exactly are they, Nessie? And how many in each specific location? Most importantly, what specific evidence do you have for each of these locations and quantities?


You have to account for ten times the number of people in this entire crowd:

[Nessie]

Is it - True. - or - False. - that; Non-nefarious diggings for such things as garbage pits, cellars, wells, latrines, septic pits, etc. - were dug at Treblinka II - ??

True

Is it - True. - or - False. - that; Archaeologists can easily distinguish a garbage pit from a mass grave?

True, assuming they excavate. Non-invasive surveys are less definitive.

How many actual mass graves did CSC actually prove actually exist within the boundary of the Treblinka II camp?

An acceptable answer will be one of the following:

0., 1., 2., 3., 4., 5., 6., 7., 8., 9., 10., 11., 12., 13., 14. or 15.

There are 11 that are in the areas of the camp where witnesses described mass graves being located.

Of the 15 alleged Treblinka II graves / cremation pits in question - the one that you can conclusively prove currently contains the most human remains is number: _?_.

An acceptable answer will be one of the following:

CSC G50 = The H.A.H.C. "huge mass grave" #1/77

CSC G54 = The H.A.H.C. "huge mass grave" #2/78

CSC G53 = The H.A.H.C. "huge mass grave" #3/79

CSC G52 = The H.A.H.C. "huge mass grave" #4/80

CSC G51 = The H.A.H.C. "huge mass grave" #5/81

CSC F1 = The H.A.H.C. "huge mass grave" #6/82

CSC G44 = The H.A.H.C. "huge mass grave" #7/83

CSC G1 = The H.A.H.C. "huge mass grave" #8/84

CSC G4 = The H.A.H.C. "huge mass grave" #9/85

CSC G38 = The H.A.H.C. "huge mass grave" #10/86

CSC F16 = The H.A.H.C. "huge mass grave" #11/87

CSC F9 = The H.A.H.C. "huge mass grave" #12/88

CSC G29 = The H.A.H.C. "huge mass grave" #13/89

CSC G32 = The H.A.H.C. "huge mass grave" #14/90

CSC G36 = The H.A.H.C. "huge mass grave" #15/91

I don't know, but it stands to reason it will be which ever is the largest.

Answer the questions as they are asked.

You have altered the questions from before, but my answers remain the same.

1 - Rather than post a photo, please state what you say is the volume of disturbed ground at TII?
2 - Rather than post a photo, please state what is buried in the disturbed ground?

[Nessie]

You fail to recognise hyperbole from the witnesses, so of course you did not recognise it from me. That identifiable human remains were being recovered at TII in 1959, so that they had to construct a huge memorial to cover the remains up, is circumstantial evidence of mass burials. Look at the size of the memorials at Sobibor and Majdanek, where remains were gathered and interred. Belzec was left open, but has had to be covered over like TII, because of scattered remains.

You cannot round the sheer size of the sites and the scale of archaeological finds. You deceive yourself, pretending there is not much to see and little evidence to prove mass graves.

So when you've said repeatedly that there abundant physical proof that millions were killed at these camps, you were engaged in "hyperbole"?

No, that was just in reference to how many photos of human remains were in C S-C thesis.

And we should be content with "circumstantial evidence of mass burials"? What does that even mean?

You should not be content with circumstantial evidence. Your fallacy is loaded question.

The Majdanek example severely undermines you because we see there that the Communists (the Russians and the Poles) claimed over a million killed and claimed huge amounts of ash and remains. The real death toll was well below 100,000, i.e., they were lying. Yet you want us to take it on faith that these same exact people have reliably reported "2 hectares of human remains" at Treblinka.

You are not taking the Polish finds on faith. Neither am I. I only accept the 1945 Polish reported findings, because they are....wait for it....corroborated!

Corroboration is very clever and super simple. It means that even an unreliable source, can be used, when that source makes a claim that can be corroborated. It also means that what is thought to be a reliable source, can be found to be wrong, or worse, lying. That is why Hoess, despite all the torture and coercion, is still used by many historians, because his claims are corroborated.

You try to conflate the Poles and Soviets into your conspiracy, because even you could not accept that the Poles fooled the world into believing a fake Holocaust. As soon as the SU collapsed, which in a large part was caused by a successful Polish revolution, Poland instantly switched from Soviet death tolls, to Western ones. They had clearly only used Soviet ones, because they were nominally allies. From the start, the Poles have been proven to be a generally reliable source of information. British Intelligence was initially sceptical of the claims about mass gassing, as expressed by Victor Cavendish-Bentinck, but as more evidence was gathered and the claims were corroborated, the British changed position. Hence, you want to make out the Poles were as bad as the Soviets, when in fact they were far more reliable.

Just to make sure, even though I have posted this a number of times already, the 1945 Polish survey results are corroborated by;

- 100% of the SS camp staff and Jewish prisoners, who located a series of mass graves in a section of the camp
- the 1944 aerial photo, that shows disturbed ground in that same section
- contemporary photos of the ground, showing disturbances and human remains
- photos of the construction of the memorial, with human remains and how the memorial was located
- the 2011 site survey by Staffs University.

[Nessie]

This is not an argument. Your "2 hectares" claim or any claim to even hundreds -- let alone thousands or hundreds of thousands -- of corpses/Jews specifically (not just 'disturbances') comes entirely from Judge L and his clique.

What about the evidence from the initial Soviet investigation, the grave robbing, when the memorial was built and later reports of cremains being found on the surface of the ground? Why are you missing all of that evidence out? Stop cherry picking.

There is a reason you keep referring to "evidence" that you do not quantify. It's because the "evidence" you are citing amounts to a quantity of zero actual corpses.

You are lying when you claim that I fail to quantify the evidence, as I repeatedly refer to exactly what that evidence is.
There were some whole corpses found buried within TII, suspected to be buried SS killed in the rebellion, but the vast majority of human remains are in the form of cremains and individual bones.

This is a question, not an argument, and yes -- you are doing all of this.

I am not using the evidence from Lukaszkiewicz alone, to determine the death toll. That comes from Nazi documents and witness estimations.

If this is your evidence for what is actually underground at Treblinka, whereas Lukaszkiewicz reports "innumerable" craters and holes filled with non-corpses, then you are in deeper trouble than you realize.

Are you really conceding that out of "innumerable" diggings between Lukaszkiewicz, Sturdy-Colls, and others, the total number of corpses actually disinterred or specifically measured in any way has been countable in the dozens or hundreds at most?

Are there no other archaeological surveys which contribute to a larger tally? Nothing at all?

Such was the level of destruction of the buried corpses, by the Nazis, that no body count is possible, nor has it been attempted. Hence, neither Lukaszkiewicz nor C S-C have provided any corpse tally. Instead, what they have established, is the approximate scale of burials, and the size of the area that the Nazis dug up to bury corpses and that they did dig numerous pits.

I have physical evidence from the camp site surveys, from what the grave robbers disturbed and from the building of the memorial, to corroborate the eyewitnesses. Then there is the circumstantial evidence of mass arrivals, with no corresponding mass departures.

I get abused by people who hate it, that I easily catch them out, making mistakes and picking holes in their logically flawed arguments. I also get censored, with posts being removed from threads. That tells me I have won the debate.

Nessie, this is "cringe". You are not a victim and you are neither heroic nor a "winner" LOL. To the mainstream, they likely find you weird for spending so much time with "deniers". And for us, you are a punching bag. That's your life.

Witnesses making claims of 5 billion corpses coupled with actual diggings/findings of just ~100 corpses does not mean there are 5 billion corpses underground. Wouldn't you agree?

Yes, your analogy is exaggerated so that it would not work. I say that an area of 2 hectares, up to 7m deep, is enough space for a series of graves that contain c850,000 corpses, or likely less, since there was also one, maybe more mass graves in the Lazarette section of the camp.

Here again is the only relevant quote from Judge L about the "excavations" in question. We'll let the readers decide whether or not multiple craters are being excavated, here:


For the record:

• The text refers specifically to "the largest of the craters" as a singular entity that "was further excavated", indicating that only one primary crater is being discussed.
• Plural terms like "these excavations" and "during the excavations" describe multiple digging activities, but these are contextualized within the singular crater (e.g., to probe its depth and walls).
• No explicit mention or description of excavating other craters; the narrative centers solely on this one (noted as the largest among implied multiples), stopping at its 7.5-meter bottom.

No reasonable person can see this any other way. It just isn't there.

He talks about different excavations, on different days, some of which result in the finding of buried property and no buried remains. The day they excavate in the 2 hectare area, he talks about craters and excavations, both plural, so more than one crater is dug into. He concentrates on the largest. [...]

...the use of plural makes sense, when there were multiple craters and excavations. You are trying to avoid admitting that the craters exposing ground that had been covered over, is evidence of the scale of the area where the Nazis had the mass graves.

Nessie, break down what specific words or phrases could be interpreted to imply he is referring to multiple craters regarding the excavations which produced corpse material of any kind.

I did exactly that, above (showing the opposite), so you need to attempt the same. Be serious for once.

The whole quote is;

"3) November 11, 1945
A series of test excavations was performed at the place where the [gas] cham-
bers had to have been located, in order to find their foundation walls if possi-
ble. Pits 10 – 15 meters in length and 1.5 meters deep were dug, uncovering
undisturbed layers of earth.
The largest of the craters produced by explosions – from this emerges numer-
ous pieces of shrapnel –, which is 6 meters deep and has a diameter of about
25 meters, its walls give recognizable evidence of the presence of a large quan-
tity of ashes as well as human remains – was further excavated in order to dis-
cover the depth of the pit in this part of the camp. Numerous human remains
were found by these excavations, still partially in a state of decomposition [w
stanie rozkładu]. The soil consists of ashes interspersed with sand, and is of a
dark-gray color, granular in form. During the excavations, the soil gave off an
intense odor of burning and decay. At a depth of 7.5 meters the bottom was
reached, which consisted of layers of unmixed sand. At this point the digging
was stopped."

Having read that, with everything else from the report, that Mattogno quotes, I would now agree with you, he wrotes about excavating in one crater. However, he goes on to say;

""With the assistance of an expert surveyor and witnesses, I made an exact in-
spection of the terrain. According to the measurements, the area of the camp is
approximately 13.45 hectares and had the shape of an irregular quadrilateral.
No remnants of facilities of the former death camp exist any longer. The only
things that remain of the structures are: a ditch with remains of burned wooden
poles protruding up, which lead into the cellar, wall bricks from the founda-
tions of the camp’s housekeeping building and the site of the well. Here and
there one finds traces of the burned-out wooden poles of the fence and remains
of barbed wire. There are still a few sections of paved walks. Nonetheless,
there are still other traces that hint at the existence and functions of the camp.
In the northwestern section of the area, the surface is covered for about 2 hec-
tares by a mixture of ashes and sand. In this mixture, one finds countless hu-
man bones, often still covered with tissue remains, which are in a condition of
decomposition. During the inspection, which I made with the assistance of an
expert in forensic medicine, it was determined that the ashes are without any
doubt of human origin (remains of cremated human bones). The examination of
human skulls could discover no trace of wounding. At a distance of some 100
m, there is now an unpleasant odor of burning and decay. In the southwestern
direction, a portion of the camp terrain is covered by aluminum – enamel –
glass and porcelain dishes – kitchen utensils – hand luggage – rucksacks –
pieces of clothing, etc. There are innumerable holes and craters on the proper-
ty.”

He conducted a visual, walk over survey, that identified numerous holes and craters containing human remains, but he appears to excavted into only one of them. The presence of numerous holes and craters, is corroborated by contemporary photos of the site and we know why they were there, caused by the grave robbing.

The "2 hectares" fantasy is dead, Nessie. The only reference to this "2 hectares" area is Judge L mentioning that this is the surface area across which ash/remains/sand was scattered due to the bomb that exploded a massive crater which had corpses in it -- the sole location where corpses were found at all.

For that to be the case, the Nazis would have buried all the dead in one grave, that somehow, the Soviets found, and blew up, leaving scattered remains on the surface around that grave, on ground that had never been dug into. Where is your evidence of that? How does that fit with all the eyewitnesses who describe multiple graves and the geophysics that located 5 pits?

The bottom-line is that the largest explosion evident on-site per Judge Lukaszkiewicz is also the only place where it's documented that corpses were identified in significant numbers underground -- period. It is documented that an explosion happened in this exact location, and the reported blast radius is what we would expect from an explosion of this size (25m x 6m blast ejecting material over a surface area of about 2 hectares). Meanwhile, there is zero mention of corpses being underground anywhere else at all, while Judge L makes clear that underneath this largest crater was the especially-interesting findings of a mass grave layered with sand (and soil).

Again, if you are going to disagree with the explicit phrasing about corpse excavations only occurring at this single site, you need to show exactly what statements could even possibly be interpreted this way by any reasonable person.

Otherwise, it's more hot air.

Photos of the site, showing its pock marked surface and remains in the craters and holes, plus Lukaszkiewicz's walk over survey, is evidence to prove your theory of one explosion of one grave of buried remains, caused an area of 2 hectares to have remains on the surface, but nothing below, is wrong. Plus there is the evidence from all the eyewitnesses and the geophysical survey, that proves the Nazis did not just dig one grave, that somehow soldiers identified and blew up.

The evidence of the 2 hectare area comes from

- the 1944 aerial photo
- eyewitness maps showing the area of multiple graves
- eyewitness descriptions of the main grave area
- Lukaszkiewicz's finds
- the 2011 geophysical survey

There we go, at least we now have a breakdown of your delusion. Thank you.

• The 1944 aerial photo shows nothing of corpses or mass grave operations

It shows nothing of the corpses, but it shows where the Nazis dug into the ground, disturbing it. The mass grave area shows as planted, consistent with eyewitness claims about planting the area with lupins. There are photos of the lupins in that area, from when the memorial was built, and, as stated by C S-C, the location of the memorial was dictated by where the Nazis had planted lupins.

[*] The eyewitness maps are just as compatible with claims by embittered Jews and other conflicted interests and are disproportionate (insufficient) as evidence for the allegations

The maps, by both Jewish prisoners and SS camp staff, all tally and locate the main mass graves in the same area of the camp.

[*] Lukaszkiewicz's finds do not mention corpses anywhere other than underneath a single crater which blew up across a surface area of two hectares. The language used is unmistakable as such.

What about the numerous craters and holes in that area, that photos show contained human remains and cremains? Your theory, that somehow soldiers located the one grave on the site, to then blow it up, is extraordinary. How did they do that?

[*] The 2011 survey did not report corpses but 'disturbances' for which it is already well-documented by Lukaszkiewicz and his team that these were "innumerable" and not filled with corpses (instead had rags, kitchenware, clothing, coins, furniture, and various junk property)[/list]

The 2011 survey also excavated where Lukaszkiewicz found buried property, and they found even more. They explicity avoided excavating in the area where he reproted finding human remains. Instead, that was subjected to a geophysical survey, which found 5 pits closely arranged next to each other.

That is all evidence to corroborate the Polish finds in 1945.

Nazi documents record the arrival of c850,000 at the camp, with evidence only a few thousand left after worker selections. Eyewitnesses, made up from local Poles, Nazi camp staff and Jewish prisoners, all describe mass arrivals and none describe any departures. Estimations of how many died at the camp, run into over a million. You cherry pick and ignore that evidence. You then pretend that I only have evidence of limited disturbed ground and buried remains. Your entire, unevidenced argument, is based on a self-deception.

No one in their right mind is going to think that some documentation hinting at arrivals of Jews to these camps necessarily means hundreds of thousands of them are buried underground in places where they were never found despite "innumerable" diggings.

The documents do not hint, they are explicit about arrivals. A huge area has been identified, that contains buried human remains on the site.

You cannot explain how it's possible that your 800,000 Jews are actually underground there, and we have a clear pattern of dishonest witnesses telling inconsistent or fabricated stories, yet you remain steadfast in your belief that somehow, someway the corpses are indeed there.

I say, due to pressure and decomposition, the naked corpses of c850,000 Jews fitted inside a series of mass graves in an area that is the equivalent to 56 Olympic sized swimming pools.

The witnesses are corroborated and that proves they told the truth about the mass graves. You use a dishonest, unscientific method of assessing the witnesses, designed explicity so that you can dismiss all 100% of them, Nazi and Jew, as lying.

So, where exactly are they, Nessie? And how many in each specific location? Most importantly, what specific evidence do you have for each of these locations and quantities?


You have to account for ten times the number of people in this entire crowd:

The majority of the c850,000 are buried in a series of mass graves, some of which have been located by the 2011 geophysical survey, in the area of the camp that the 1945 survey described as the site of 2 hectares, up to 7m deep, containing cremated human remains. Some are also buried in the Lazarret section of the camp, where the 2011 survey also identified pits.

[Keen]

You have altered the questions from before

That's because you refused to give an honest answer.

I'll alter them again:

Roberto, how many actual mass graves did CSC actually prove actually exist within the boundary of the Treblinka II camp?

An acceptable answer will be one of the following:

0., 1., 2., 3., 4., 5., 6., 7., 8., 9., 10., 11., 12., 13., 14., 15., or More than 15.

Now let's watch Roberto Run!

Of the 15 alleged Treblinka II graves / cremation pits in question - the one that you can conclusively prove currently contains the most human remains is number: _?_.

An acceptable answer will be one of the following:

CSC G50 = The H.A.H.C. "huge mass grave" #1/77

CSC G54 = The H.A.H.C. "huge mass grave" #2/78

CSC G53 = The H.A.H.C. "huge mass grave" #3/79

CSC G52 = The H.A.H.C. "huge mass grave" #4/80

CSC G51 = The H.A.H.C. "huge mass grave" #5/81

CSC F1 = The H.A.H.C. "huge mass grave" #6/82

CSC G44 = The H.A.H.C. "huge mass grave" #7/83

CSC G1 = The H.A.H.C. "huge mass grave" #8/84

CSC G4 = The H.A.H.C. "huge mass grave" #9/85

CSC G38 = The H.A.H.C. "huge mass grave" #10/86

CSC F16 = The H.A.H.C. "huge mass grave" #11/87

CSC F9 = The H.A.H.C. "huge mass grave" #12/88

CSC G29 = The H.A.H.C. "huge mass grave" #13/89

CSC G32 = The H.A.H.C. "huge mass grave" #14/90

CSC G36 = The H.A.H.C. "huge mass grave" #15/91

Roberto:

I don't know

Well, let's help you out then.

Roberto,

List all of the Treblinka II graves / cremation pits in question that you can conclusively prove actually exist and currently contain at least an iota of human remains: _?_.

List all of the Treblinka II graves / cremation pits in question that you can conclusively prove actually exist and currently contain at least one single, disconnected human tooth: _?_.

List all of the Treblinka II graves / cremation pits in question that you can conclusively prove actually exist and currently contain at least one pound of cremated human remains: _?_.

List all of the Treblinka II graves / cremation pits in question that you can conclusively prove currently contain the remains of at least 2 human beings: _?_.

List all of the Treblinka II graves / cremation pits in question that you can conclusively prove currently contain the remains of at least 22 human beings: _?_.

[Keen]

Let's see the list of questions that you have asked me prior to today that I have dodged.

The shameless lying low IQ coward has been caught in yet another one of its myriad lies.