Treblinka Work Camp Delousing Chamber

[PrudentRegret]

I've not drawn any inferences from why these camps were called SS-Sonderkommandos, there were after all a variety of other SS-Sonderkommandos with defined purposes that did not involve killing, but the vagueness in the surviving records about these four is quite remarkable.

The term "Sonderkommando" typically refers to a personnel unit, not a camp designation. Having a special command unit stationed at a particular area allows for some overlap in how these are described but does not overrule the necessity for a distinct designation for the location itself.

As PR has shown, the name "Arbeitslager Treblinka" goes back to 1941 and was used consistently in documents. The idea that Eberl was using a 'code name' that exactly matched the name of an existing camp next door makes no sense and would have done more to cause confusion than to obscure any particular camp function. There is no hint of this reference being a 'coded' one; only your assumptions when backed against a wall, it seems. The budgetary documents from the SSPF Warsaw pertain to the expansion of "Arbeitslager Treblinka" in both 1942 and 1943, aligning with Eberl's communications about construction at the same camp.

You provide some evidence of two distinct staffs, but this does not address [as PR has shown] the most straightforward reading of the direct, contemporary evidence: that is, Eberl referring to the camp collectively (TI and TII, together) as "Arbeitslager Treblinka". This does not remotely align with the notion of it as a separate entity and jurisdiction. Even if "SS-Sonderkommando Treblinka" refers to an area and not only a unit (note: when used in this way, "command" (kommando) is defined as "the personnel, area, or organization under a commander"), all we have confirmed is there is a specially-designated area within Arbeitslager Treblinka.

What you are forced to claim, Nick, is that this "special" command was there exclusively to kill everyone, despite copious evidence now conflicting with this interpretation and, at the very least, better aligning with a non-genocidal (revisionist) interpretation as to the use of the T-II area.

Altogether, this further limits you exclusively to this notoriously-problematic pool of 'eyewitnesses' (scroll to 30%):

https://holocaustencyclopedia.com/instr ... linka/889/

And remember, those are just the 'best' witnesses. Even more absurd ones came later. Can you name any other historical narrative so heavily-reliant on such a problematic pool (i.e. proportion of inconsistencies and falsehoods) of eyewitnesses?

SanityCheck is reduced to claiming that the dreaded SS-Sonderkommando tasked with the most diabolical crime in human history also moonlit as gravel merchants, even though they were supposed to be TOTALLY SEPARATE entities he says, they only did this because they were bored with no Jews to kill.

They were TOTALLY SEPARATE CAMPS, except they were referred to by the EXACT SAME NAME under construction of the EXACT SAME jurisdiction, were involved in each other's activities with the gravel operation and guarding transports, were off the exact same small spur...

SS-Arbeitslager Treblinka was an AR camp in the vein of SS-Arbeitslager Trawniki, SS-Arbeitslager Poniatowa, etc. all those camps had the exact same setup of both forced labor working for private enterprises as well as the salvaging and sorting of personal property in Jewish camps for OperationReinhardt.

What's funny is SanityCheck admits that "T-II" was constructed under ZBL Warsaw but then he acts like it's impossible that references and budget for the expansion of Arbeitslager Treblinka refers to the exact same project named by Eberl in his communications with that exact same name.

[SanityCheck]

I've not drawn any inferences from why these camps were called SS-Sonderkommandos, there were after all a variety of other SS-Sonderkommandos with defined purposes that did not involve killing, but the vagueness in the surviving records about these four is quite remarkable.

The term "Sonderkommando" typically refers to a personnel unit, not a camp designation. Having a special command unit stationed at a particular area allows for some overlap in how these are described but does not overrule the necessity for a distinct designation for the location itself.

As PR has shown, the name "Arbeitslager Treblinka" goes back to 1941 and was used consistently in documents. The idea that Eberl was using a 'code name' that exactly matched the name of an existing camp next door makes no sense and would have done more to cause confusion than to obscure any particular camp function. There is no hint of this reference being a 'coded' one; only your assumptions when backed against a wall, it seems. The budgetary documents from the SSPF Warsaw pertain to the expansion of "Arbeitslager Treblinka" in both 1942 and 1943, aligning with Eberl's communications about construction at the same camp.

You provide some evidence of two distinct staffs, but this does not address [as PR has shown] the most straightforward reading of the direct, contemporary evidence: that is, Eberl referring to the camp collectively (TI and TII, together) as "Arbeitslager Treblinka". This does not remotely align with the notion of it as a separate entity and jurisdiction. Even if "SS-Sonderkommando Treblinka" refers to an area and not only a unit (note: when used in this way, "command" (kommando) is defined as "the personnel, area, or organization under a commander"), all we have confirmed is there is a specially-designated area within Arbeitslager Treblinka.

What you are forced to claim, Nick, is that this "special" command was there exclusively to kill everyone, despite copious evidence now conflicting with this interpretation and, at the very least, better aligning with a non-genocidal (revisionist) interpretation as to the use of the T-II area.

Altogether, this further limits you exclusively to this notoriously-problematic pool of 'eyewitnesses' (scroll to 30%):

https://holocaustencyclopedia.com/instr ... linka/889/

And remember, those are just the 'best' witnesses. Even more absurd ones came later. Can you name any other historical narrative so heavily-reliant on such a problematic pool (i.e. proportion of inconsistencies and falsehoods) of eyewitnesses?

So are you and PrudentRegret now arguing that Hauptsturmfuehrer Theodor van Eupen, the documented commandant of SS-Arbeitslager Treblinka, was in charge of the other Treblinka camp on the other side of the rail line?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodor_van_Eupen

There were two commandants, two guard companies, with separate personnel, operating in two separate camps physically separated by a rail line. One was generally referred to as SS-Arbeitslager Treblinka, the other as SS-Sonderkommando Treblinka.

Quit making yourselves look like cranks by arguing from anomalies.

[Nessie]

...You provide some evidence of two distinct staffs...

The main difference, to me, is that TI was used as a prison for local Polish, non-Jewish people, to serve sentences, from which they were released and whilst at the camp, they worked at the quarry. The result is no dispute at all about activities inside the camp. TII had no local, non-Jewish prisoners, no releases, and the claim it was used only to sort property is both not supported and contradicted by evidence from multiple sources.

There are arguments as to why both camps would support a delousing chamber and there is also no evidence either of them was the location of the chamber. So this just because a talking point, of little evidential value, that revisionists think they can make into something. They do that, a lot, because of their lack of actual, direct evidence, to support their competing theories.

[SanityCheck]

SanityCheck is reduced to claiming that the dreaded SS-Sonderkommando tasked with the most diabolical crime in human history also moonlit as gravel merchants, even though they were supposed to be TOTALLY SEPARATE entities he says, they only did this because they were bored with no Jews to kill.

They were TOTALLY SEPARATE CAMPS, except they were referred to by the EXACT SAME NAME under construction of the EXACT SAME jurisdiction, were involved in each other's activities with the gravel operation and guarding transports, were off the exact same small spur...

SS-Arbeitslager Treblinka was an AR camp in the vein of SS-Arbeitslager Trawniki, SS-Arbeitslager Poniatowa, etc. all those camps had the exact same setup of both forced labor working for private enterprises as well as the salvaging and sorting of personal property in Jewish camps for OperationReinhardt.

What's funny is SanityCheck admits that "T-II" was constructed under ZBL Warsaw but then he acts like it's impossible that references and budget for the expansion of Arbeitslager Treblinka refers to the exact same project named by Eberl in his communications with that exact same name.

You're really no better at this than you were in February 2020 when you first started this blether.

I didn't 'admit' that the Treblinka extermination camp was constructed under ZBL Warschau. I pointed to testimonies identifying Richard Thomalla as supervising the construction of both Sobibor and Treblinka, and to denials by veterans of ZBL Warschau that they had anything to do with the construction of the Treblinka extermination camp. The most they conceded was helping sort out contacts with firms in Warsaw itself, there are other testimonies from the Treblinka II side about going into Warsaw to pick up materials, in addition to the German and Polish witnesses describing the construction process in Treblinka II (like Puchala).

Eberl's letter, to reiterate, is a one-off predating the beginning of operations of SS-Sonderkommando Treblinka. He himself clarified to his wife that mail needed to go to him c/o SS-Sonderkommando Treblinka shortly after the camp began operating (July 22) which is also after the documented train schedule for Warsaw-Treblinka transports kicked in, and all the other evidence showing transports not going to the previously existing Treblinka I labour camp, or to the wholly imaginary and entirely undocumented Malkinia transit camp of your recent fantasies.

Maetzig's letter is also so far a one-off, from a whole year later, when there were few transports arriving at SS-Sonderkommando Treblinka. There is no sustained paper trail showing that SS-Sonderkommando Treblinka or its admin NCO Maetzig had a sustained relationship with DESt who oversaw the quarry mined on the other side of the rail line by SS-Arbeitslager Treblinka.

'Jurisdiction' is a misnomer when discussing military and paramilitary commands. It was perfectly standard for military and paramilitary units to answer to an operational chain of command, in this case SS-Sonderkommando Treblinka being under Wirth as Inspector of the SS-Sonderkommandos based in Lublin, and to do their business with higher authorities in other territorial areas. Eberl and Stangl reported to Lublin. Eupen did not. Eupen's German staff belonged for pay and admin purposes to SSPF Warschau. Eberl and Stangl's German staff did not.

This applies to long-standing installations and static units, even more so for detachments, such as sending out Hoefle and others from Lublin in the summer of 1942 as the Beauftragte of Einsatz Reinhardt to Warsaw to oversee the 'resettlement' of the Warsaw ghetto. Once in Warsaw, Hoefle's staff cooperated with KdS Warschau (the Security Police) who muscled aside the civilian 'commissar for the Jewish residential district' (Auerswald) and also retained control over the reduced ghetto after the end of the action via the 'Befehlsstelle'. The deportation involved using the manpower of a police battalion stationed in Warsaw (but later sent to the Eastern front after the end of the action), several Schutzmannschaft units, Trawnikis brought in from Lublin, as well as the guard company of SS-Arbeitslager Treblinka. While the civilian administration were unceremoniously ignored, the civilian railways were a necessary partner in organising the deportation of Jews from Warsaw to Treblinka, and from other departure points to Treblinka. Once the Warsaw action was over, Hoefle and his assistants returned to Lublin.

In the please-God-it-should-have never-been-written page of 'revisionist' glory that was your ER/AR fixation, you convinced yourself against all the evidence that all Hoefle did was oversee property plunder, and that masses of clothing and valuables magically travelled through Treblinka to Lublin with no sign of their owners, who appeared to have been as poofed out of existence as humans were in the War of the Worlds film with Tom Cruise.

Coming up on five years ago you were advancing your literal Underpants Gnome theory of Einsatz/Aktion Reinhard/t and studiously ignoring the camps themselves, then you fixated on imaginary narrow-gauge rail tracks near Treblinka, lately on Malkinia... when will you ever realise that Sobibor and Belzec refute your fixation on Malkinia-Treblinka in so many different ways? When will you ever advance an argument that explains all three of the SS-Sonderkommandos under Wirth and Globocnik?

Neither Sobibor nor Belzec show up in the GG Police budget breakdowns, so your latest wheeze of merging the two Treblinka camps into one for fiscal purposes is as dead on arrival as all of your other wheezes.

[Nazgul]

There were two commandants, two guard companies, with separate personnel, operating in two separate camps physically separated by a rail line. One was generally referred to as SS-Arbeitslager Treblinka, the other as SS-Sonderkommando Treblinka.

Quit making yourselves look like cranks by arguing from anomalies.

There were two Judenlagers attached to TI. The current location of TII fits perfectly with the description given by Marion Olszuk, which I am sure you are familiar with. Judenlagers were referred to as Sonderkommando (special command) as at Sobibor.

[SanityCheck]

There were two commandants, two guard companies, with separate personnel, operating in two separate camps physically separated by a rail line. One was generally referred to as SS-Arbeitslager Treblinka, the other as SS-Sonderkommando Treblinka.

Quit making yourselves look like cranks by arguing from anomalies.

There were two Judenlagers attached to TI. The current location of TII fits perfectly with the description given by Marion Olszuk, which I am sure you are familiar with. Judenlagers were referred to as Sonderkommando (special command) as at Sobibor.

Looking into a mirror Exeter prince may be counter productive.

Aaand Marion Olszuk is also another anomaly. You don't convince anyone when bringing up a single witness when there are many dozens reporting the contrary.

[Nazgul]

Aaand Marion Olszuk is also another anomaly. You don't convince anyone when bringing up a single witness when there are many dozens reporting the contrary.

I do not rely on one witness but many more. I only need to convince myself that the current TII was a Judenlager. You are jude, so am I, yet you appear to have a fake narrative to promulgate to the world, false witnesses, reluctance to consider real facts. I am unsure of your agenda, it appears political in character, not of historical value. Propaganda.
A History dude with a personal agenda to change history, creating a fake one, is not perhaps a career move many would risk. I should imagine the Gestapo was created to deal with people who with snake oil integrity, deliver fake history, due to political motives.
It is the anomalies, such as the town elders of Wólka Okrąglik putting a death camp south of the arbeitslager that is of interest, not the promulgation of some fake narrarive. Relying on fake witnesses, coerced, mistaken, is not in my opinion history but a narrative, a political one in your case. There is not "an anomaly" but hundreds if not thousands, that a true interested historian should investigate. As we are, interested in truth, not fabrication, we follow the investigative path.

[Callafangers]

I do not rely on one witness but many more. I only need to convince myself that the current TII was a Judenlager. You are jude, so am I, yet you appear to have a fake narrative to promulgate to the world, false witnesses, reluctance to consider real facts. I am unsure of your agenda, it appears political in character, not of historical value. Propaganda.

Is Nick Terry actually Jewish? Or is this some kind of metaphor?

[Nazgul]

Is Nick Terry actually Jewish? Or is this some kind of metaphor?

Jude. I will search through the archives again.

[Nessie]

...
I do not rely on one witness but many more....

Why not name and quote them? Do any speak to delousing clothes at either TI or TII?

[curioussoul]

SanityCheck is reduced to claiming that the dreaded SS-Sonderkommando tasked with the most diabolical crime in human history also moonlit as gravel merchants, even though they were supposed to be TOTALLY SEPARATE entities he says, they only did this because they were bored with no Jews to kill.

They were TOTALLY SEPARATE CAMPS, except they were referred to by the EXACT SAME NAME under construction of the EXACT SAME jurisdiction, were involved in each other's activities with the gravel operation and guarding transports, were off the exact same small spur...

SS-Arbeitslager Treblinka was an AR camp in the vein of SS-Arbeitslager Trawniki, SS-Arbeitslager Poniatowa, etc. all those camps had the exact same setup of both forced labor working for private enterprises as well as the salvaging and sorting of personal property in Jewish camps for OperationReinhardt.

What's funny is SanityCheck admits that "T-II" was constructed under ZBL Warsaw but then he acts like it's impossible that references and budget for the expansion of Arbeitslager Treblinka refers to the exact same project named by Eberl in his communications with that exact same name.

You're really no better at this than you were in February 2020 when you first started this blether.

I didn't 'admit' that the Treblinka extermination camp was constructed under ZBL Warschau. I pointed to testimonies identifying Richard Thomalla as supervising the construction of both Sobibor and Treblinka, and to denials by veterans of ZBL Warschau that they had anything to do with the construction of the Treblinka extermination camp. The most they conceded was helping sort out contacts with firms in Warsaw itself, there are other testimonies from the Treblinka II side about going into Warsaw to pick up materials, in addition to the German and Polish witnesses describing the construction process in Treblinka II (like Puchala).

Eberl's letter, to reiterate, is a one-off predating the beginning of operations of SS-Sonderkommando Treblinka. He himself clarified to his wife that mail needed to go to him c/o SS-Sonderkommando Treblinka shortly after the camp began operating (July 22) which is also after the documented train schedule for Warsaw-Treblinka transports kicked in, and all the other evidence showing transports not going to the previously existing Treblinka I labour camp, or to the wholly imaginary and entirely undocumented Malkinia transit camp of your recent fantasies.

Maetzig's letter is also so far a one-off, from a whole year later, when there were few transports arriving at SS-Sonderkommando Treblinka. There is no sustained paper trail showing that SS-Sonderkommando Treblinka or its admin NCO Maetzig had a sustained relationship with DESt who oversaw the quarry mined on the other side of the rail line by SS-Arbeitslager Treblinka.

'Jurisdiction' is a misnomer when discussing military and paramilitary commands. It was perfectly standard for military and paramilitary units to answer to an operational chain of command, in this case SS-Sonderkommando Treblinka being under Wirth as Inspector of the SS-Sonderkommandos based in Lublin, and to do their business with higher authorities in other territorial areas. Eberl and Stangl reported to Lublin. Eupen did not. Eupen's German staff belonged for pay and admin purposes to SSPF Warschau. Eberl and Stangl's German staff did not.

This applies to long-standing installations and static units, even more so for detachments, such as sending out Hoefle and others from Lublin in the summer of 1942 as the Beauftragte of Einsatz Reinhardt to Warsaw to oversee the 'resettlement' of the Warsaw ghetto. Once in Warsaw, Hoefle's staff cooperated with KdS Warschau (the Security Police) who muscled aside the civilian 'commissar for the Jewish residential district' (Auerswald) and also retained control over the reduced ghetto after the end of the action via the 'Befehlsstelle'. The deportation involved using the manpower of a police battalion stationed in Warsaw (but later sent to the Eastern front after the end of the action), several Schutzmannschaft units, Trawnikis brought in from Lublin, as well as the guard company of SS-Arbeitslager Treblinka. While the civilian administration were unceremoniously ignored, the civilian railways were a necessary partner in organising the deportation of Jews from Warsaw to Treblinka, and from other departure points to Treblinka. Once the Warsaw action was over, Hoefle and his assistants returned to Lublin.

In the please-God-it-should-have never-been-written page of 'revisionist' glory that was your ER/AR fixation, you convinced yourself against all the evidence that all Hoefle did was oversee property plunder, and that masses of clothing and valuables magically travelled through Treblinka to Lublin with no sign of their owners, who appeared to have been as poofed out of existence as humans were in the War of the Worlds film with Tom Cruise.

Coming up on five years ago you were advancing your literal Underpants Gnome theory of Einsatz/Aktion Reinhard/t and studiously ignoring the camps themselves, then you fixated on imaginary narrow-gauge rail tracks near Treblinka, lately on Malkinia... when will you ever realise that Sobibor and Belzec refute your fixation on Malkinia-Treblinka in so many different ways? When will you ever advance an argument that explains all three of the SS-Sonderkommandos under Wirth and Globocnik?

Neither Sobibor nor Belzec show up in the GG Police budget breakdowns, so your latest wheeze of merging the two Treblinka camps into one for fiscal purposes is as dead on arrival as all of your other wheezes.

What's with the ad hominem attacks? I know you people are obsessed with studying, cataloging and deciphering revisionists on a personal level, hence your unceasing attempts at analyzing the "state of revisionism" and current revisionist scholars, etc. It must frustrate you to no end that competent revisionists like Mattogno are essentially non-public figures whom you are practically unable to deconstruct and attack personally (though attempts have been made by yourself and others throughout the years), short of stalking them IRL. Surely you would never stoop that low?

As for your hypothesis that a German camp would be designated as a personnel unit (an "SS-Sonderkommando"), you've yet to demonstrate that these alleged references actually refer to the physical location itself rather than, logically, the SS unit stationed there. Dismissing contradictory evidence as "one-offs" isn't really helping your case either. Several one-offs kind of make them... well, not one-offs. It's perfectly reasonable that the two locations could fall under the umbrella term "Arbeitslager Treblinka" given that labor (arbeit) was carried out at both locations in addition to their close budgetary and geographical relationship. But you've tried to argue the separateness of Treblinka-II by pointing out the references to the "SS-Sonderkommando" at that location in addition to a few other things such as Treblinka-II being completely demolished and leveled, etc. But this is perfectly logical given this location's role within the Aktion Reinhard project, which Treblinka-I was not necessarily a part of. Just as Auschwitz-Birkenau served a limited role within the scope of the AR project, so did Treblinka with its Treblinka-II camp. The Germans were highly secretive of Aktion Reinhard because of the sensitive nature of mass-confiscating private property from forcibly re-located peoples. Arguing that the secrecy alone proves it was an extermination camp is childish. It's telling that Globocnik's secret report to Himmler makes no mention of the AR project's alleged main goal, exterminating Polish Jewry.

It's ironic you would accuse someone of "wholly imaginary and entirely undocumented fantasies" given your track record of endorsing wholly imaginary and undocumented things. Early 1942 transports of Jews from Sosnowiec to Bunker 1 ring any bells?

[PrudentRegret]

I didn't 'admit' that the Treblinka extermination camp was constructed under ZBL Warschau. I pointed to testimonies identifying Richard Thomalla as supervising the construction of both Sobibor and Treblinka, and to denials by veterans of ZBL Warschau that they had anything to do with the construction of the Treblinka extermination camp.

Oh look, there's the walk-back, not surprising. Here is what you said:

Construction tasks to build the two camps seem to have devolved to the Zentralbauleitung Warschau

So said construction tasks to build both camps devolved to ZBL Warsaw, in documents pertaining to budgetary concerns for construction in Warsaw District we see budget for expansion of Arbeitslager Treblinka in 1942 and 1943, and in 1942 we see multiple documents referring to a major construction project in Arbeitslager Treblinka. But you are arguing none of this is related, and you are walking back your acknowledgement that construction tasks fell to ZBL Warsaw. Maybe you should pick a consistent position?

Sanity Check relies so heavily on "oh this is a one-off, that's a one-off" when all he's doing is pointing to letterhead and saying that was the name of a location rather than the name of a personnel unit.

Here's another letter from Eberl regarding Arbeitslager Treblinka Fur den Ausbau des Arbeitlsagers Trebliinka. In the other document Mattogno translates this as "Construction of" but wouldn't "Expansion of" be a more likely translation? I'll let someone else weigh in. If "Expansion" is the better translation then that only aligns more closely these documents with the expansion of Arbeitslager Treblinka described in the budget documents.



In any case "one-off", nope that is refuted.

It's clear why SanityCheck has such holdups over admitting "Arbeitslager Treblinka" denoted both the forced labor camp and the Jewish camp that Eberl built. But at Auschwitz, we had Auschwitz I and Auschwitz II, with Auschwitz II pertaining to Operation Reinhardt.

And likewise at Treblinka, "Arbeitslager Treblinka" encompassed both Zwangsarbeitslager Treblinka I and the Jewish camp constructed by Eberl which he denotes directly multiple times as referring to the expansion of Arbeitslager Treblinka.



SanityCheck trying to say the "Maetzig's letter is also so far a one-off, from a whole year later" (as if emphasizing 'whole year' is doing any sort of work here!) is an acknowledgment that it is evidence SS-Sonderkommando Treblinka was involved in the operation of the Zwangsarbeitslager Treblinka I, meaning that term could not refer to a location of a totally different camp than "Arbeitlsager Treblinka."

Eberl's letter, to reiterate, is a one-off predating the beginning of operations of SS-Sonderkommando Treblinka. He himself clarified to his wife that mail needed to go to him c/o SS-Sonderkommando Treblinka shortly after the camp began operating (July 22) which is also after the documented train schedule for Warsaw-Treblinka transports kicked in, and all the other evidence showing transports not going to the previously existing Treblinka I labour camp, or to the wholly imaginary and entirely undocumented Malkinia transit camp of your recent fantasies.

Those transport documents prove the transports actually stopped in Malkinia, unlike your claim that they ultimately stopped at a location that is not documented or referred to in the train schedules.

[PrudentRegret]

I pulled a Bombsaway and asked ChatGPT to parse the statement:

The phrase "Für den Ausbau des Arbeitslagers" translates to "For the expansion of the labor camp" in English. The term "Ausbau" generally refers to expansion, development, or improvement, as opposed to "construction" (which would be "Bau" in German).

Thus, in this context, it most likely refers to the expansion of an already existing labor camp.

So we have multiple documents of Eberl referring to the construction of the Jewish camp as an EXPANSION of Abreitslager Treblinka, and we have budgetary reference to an EXPANSION of Arbeitslager Treblinka which includes sanitary and economic facilities which would have been relevant to Operation Reinhardt.

But whatever I don't speak German so SanityCheck can correct this if he wants!

[SanityCheck]

I do not rely on one witness but many more. I only need to convince myself that the current TII was a Judenlager. You are jude, so am I, yet you appear to have a fake narrative to promulgate to the world, false witnesses, reluctance to consider real facts. I am unsure of your agenda, it appears political in character, not of historical value. Propaganda.

Is Nick Terry actually Jewish? Or is this some kind of metaphor?

No, I'm not Jewish.

[SanityCheck]

What's with the ad hominem attacks?

PrudentRegret has been tinkering away with Einsatz/Aktion Reinhardt and Treblinka for approaching five years, commenting on various forums. He hasn't had nearly as many responses from me over that time as he might have liked, since I've only responded to him sporadically. I waited to weigh in on this thread until some other 'revisionists' started to fall for his evidentiary plate-spinning. Falling for his spiels would be as toxic as embracing Krema Denial, which was a thing about fifteen years back with a couple of members of the original RODOH forum.

It's hardly in my supposed interests to correct delusions circulating among 'revisionists', or pose counters so arguments might be strengthened, but the price in exchange for constructive criticism that saner 'revisionists' might learn from is the right to engage in light mockery of the especially deluded.

I know you people are obsessed with studying, cataloging and deciphering revisionists on a personal level, hence your unceasing attempts at analyzing the "state of revisionism" and current revisionist scholars, etc. It must frustrate you to no end that competent revisionists like Mattogno are essentially non-public figures whom you are practically unable to deconstruct and attack personally (though attempts have been made by yourself and others throughout the years), short of stalking them IRL. Surely you would never stoop that low?

'Competent revisionists like Mattogno' LOL. Why would I bother to 'stalk' a nearly 74 year old Italian crank? All I need to do is pose Archie's request for a 300 page summary of his arguments and watch the meltdown.

As for your hypothesis that a German camp would be designated as a personnel unit (an "SS-Sonderkommando"), you've yet to demonstrate that these alleged references actually refer to the physical location itself rather than, logically, the SS unit stationed there.

SS-Sonderkommando Treblinka did not move around, it was stationed in 1942-1943 on the other side of the rail line to SS-Arbeitslager Treblinka.

The existence of two camps at Treblinka has been known since 1942 and was reported then, investigated after the war repeatedly, and further researched by the current Treblinka museum, who have employed professional geographers to help map out the sites using the surviving aerial photos and other sources. Those studies are on the website.
https://muzeumtreblinka.eu/en/books-and-publications/

If you're aiming to argue that we need contemporary official German documents to prove the existence of a physical space now regarded as Treblinka extermination camp, then I refer you to the waybills showing the shipping-out of barracks and other materials from SS-Sonderkommando Treblinka, which were certainly not coming from SS-Arbeitslager Treblinka, as this continued to exist until July 1944. There's also now a rather striking report on the apparently accidental killing of Herbert Floss during the transport taking 200 Jews from SS-Sonderkommando Treblinka to Sobibor on 22-23 October 1943 (document 19 here, scan of the German original: https://statearchive.ru/sobibor/01.html)

Should you wish to try on some coulda-woulda-shoulda sophistry, this is why fact-finders don't ignore all other sources to interpret documents on their own, since the contemporary non-German reports, post-liberation investigations and testimonial evidence from both camps are overwhelmingly in agreement on the existence of two separate camps with two different purposes, two staffs and guard forces, two sets of inmates, etc.

Only by ignoring all of this other evidence can PrudentRegret, or you, even begin to entertain this nonsense.

Dismissing contradictory evidence as "one-offs" isn't really helping your case either. Several one-offs kind of make them... well, not one-offs. It's perfectly reasonable that the two locations could fall under the umbrella term "Arbeitslager Treblinka" given that labor (arbeit) was carried out at both locations in addition to their close budgetary and geographical relationship. But you've tried to argue the separateness of Treblinka-II by pointing out the references to the "SS-Sonderkommando" at that location in addition to a few other things such as Treblinka-II being completely demolished and leveled, etc. But this is perfectly logical given this location's role within the Aktion Reinhard project, which Treblinka-I was not necessarily a part of. Just as Auschwitz-Birkenau served a limited role within the scope of the AR project, so did Treblinka with its Treblinka-II camp. The Germans were highly secretive of Aktion Reinhard because of the sensitive nature of mass-confiscating private property from forcibly re-located peoples. Arguing that the secrecy alone proves it was an extermination camp is childish. It's telling that Globocnik's secret report to Himmler makes no mention of the AR project's alleged main goal, exterminating Polish Jewry.

And yet, Globocnik's report mentioned deportations, something that PrudentRegret struggled with back in 2020-2021 when he was advancing his Underpants Gnome theory of Aktion Reinhardt.

There was no budgetary relationship between SS-Arbeitslager Treblinka, the site showing up in GG civilian records, and SS-Sonderkommando Treblinka.

It's ironic you would accuse someone of "wholly imaginary and entirely undocumented fantasies" given your track record of endorsing wholly imaginary and undocumented things. Early 1942 transports of Jews from Sosnowiec to Bunker 1 ring any bells?

To be clear here, I'm using documented in the sense of unsourced, rather than hairsplitting about what counts as a document. Pulling a Mattogno and going around saying anything that isn't recorded in a contemporary official German document is a 'fantasy' is not something that works as a principle in history or indeed fact-finding in general. So when a 'revisionist' asserts something because of a lack of contemporary official German documents, this doesn't mean they get to rely on their make-shit-up fantasies. They still need sources of some kind. No sources, no history. It just makes it piquant when a 'revisionist' cannot even find a document to back up their fantasies.