The Pyres of Dresden

[Stubble]

For those unfamiliar, Dresden was mercilessly bombed during a festival. This saturation bombing of a civilian target was a joint allied effort.

The fires that resulted were so thorough that they scavenged the oxygen from the city and suffocated those who had gone underground thinking they had found shelter.

Their suffocated bodies were dragged into the square and burned on pyres.

This was a hygienic measure to desiccate the remains before burial as they had begun to rot.

Here are some images of the pyres;







You can see that wood is minimal. Destruction via cremation is also less than total.

Some claim this was done using only 'liquid fuels'. For a myriad of reasons, supposing that these bodies were cremated using gasoline alone is frankly ridiculous. One very clear and unignorable fact is, uhm, the, wood, in the pictures...I would also assume there is some coke or coal between the bodies looking at the color still image and the heat pattern indicated by it. Note that the pyre glows like a stoked ember.

Such a patent fact doesn't get in the way of some claiming 'it was a pure liquid job' and turning to statements made in the 50's and 60's and saying, see, this proves it.

Look, I don't care how many people saw Martha riding her broomstick through the air, that never happened, much like claims of bodies being 'completely cremated with liquid fuel'.

Some reading;

https://holocausthistorychannel.wordpre ... pton-farm/

[TlsMS93]

It is indeed possible to cremate these bodies with only "flammable liquid." Whether it is efficient or whether other materials were available determines the plausibility of using this method in Dresden rather than in the Reinhardt camps.

Since the city was devastated by incendiary bombs, little biomass would have been available. An industrial city would have had some benzene reservoir, as sanitation was urgent.

Now, what are the details of this open-air burning? Is a pyre of bodies built, rinsed, and set on fire, then simply added more benzene through a hose? This would have taken a long time to reduce to ash.

It's difficult to imagine this scenario in rural Poland, where there was timber in the regions, but the logistical problem is present. Exterminationists hope that all of this is just our delusional inability to believe in this process; they prefer this to having to maintain that a small fraction of it occurred and the rest went to occupied regions in the USSR.

[Stubble]

Have you ever, poured gas on a fire?

Don't.



Can it be done? I mean, to a degree, sometimes, in a controlled way.

Can it be done, with a fire hose?

That's, ill advisable.

You don't add more, and it is a flash and short burn. When it is smoking, that isn't a good time to add more, because vapor explosions are a thing.



Me, being the redneck that I am, I've probably made every mistake you can with fire. From my experience, you want to use used motor oil or diesel to start a fire, it is significantly less volatile. Also, if you add liquid fuel to a fire, do it with a cup that has a larger top than bottom, so, if it explodes in your hand, it goes out the top, and, generally away from you.

If the top is smaller, you, can have expansion issues. I know personally someone who was doing the 'glass bottle flame experiment' as a demonstration at a university that has nerve damage and had to get 70 stitches when the vessel exploded.

A PSA for your consideration;

https://www.chathamcountync.gov/governm ... ine-safety

[Callafangers]

One very clear and unignorable fact is, uhm, the, wood, in the pictures...I would also assume there is some coke or coal between the bodies looking at the color still image and the heat pattern indicated by it. Note that the pyre glows like a stoked ember.

They are also still wearing thick winter clothes which, if indeed soaked in gasoline, could add a few more megajoules (MJ) to the exchange. It also looks like the wood at the bottom is setup so that more would could be added-in as the fire progresses. Overall, if we assume complete-to-ash cremation, we know this was almost certainly the case, since no amount of missing/contrary testimony can explain away the need for meeting endothermic demand (i.e. enough fuel to input the needed ~200-300 MJ (since Dresden Germans were mostly non-emaciated) into each corpse, accounting for massive heat losses in an outdoor cremation environment and imperfect airflow).

[Stubble]

I don't think they were completely cremated though Fangers, this was a sanitary measure. Simple desiccation was the goal, if we're being honest.

There are exactly 0 pictures of any German mass cremation pyre 'burned to ash'...

[Callafangers]

I don't think they were completely cremated though Fangers, this was a sanitary measure. Simple desiccation was the goal, if we're being honest.

There are exactly 0 pictures of any German mass cremation pyre 'burned to ash'...

That makes sense, I'm just going off of what historian Frederick Taylor claims in his work cited in the HC blog. He claims some 6,800 corpses were turned into 8-10 cubic meters of fine ash with nothing but some gallons of gasoline, straw, and a day's work. Your interpretation seems far more likely but if we try to interpret his as truthful, we end up with big problems.

[Callafangers]

You don't add more, and it is a flash and short burn. When it is smoking, that isn't a good time to add more, because vapor explosions are a thing.

This is a hilarious and very relevant experiment. Even if we assume EXTREME dousing/soaking, we end up with the above (and the amount used here isn't even extreme). Just think how much of the heat (MJ) is lost in the explosion rather than being input into the wood it was in or under. It's completely untenable.

[Stubble]

You don't add more, and it is a flash and short burn. When it is smoking, that isn't a good time to add more, because vapor explosions are a thing.

This is a hilarious and very relevant experiment. Even if we assume EXTREME dousing/soaking, we end up with the above (and the amount used here isn't even so extreme). It's completely untenable.

Remarkably, it is a predictable outcome that replicates every time. I might go so far as to say it is a proven law. You drench something in gas and throw a match, it explodes. It is, unavoidable.

[bombsaway]

I can concede a mistake when I make one, this was just a brain fart (which no one called me out about until Stubble said something) that wood was not used. It clearly was used from the pictures

But how much?

this is from HC Blog, quoting historians

The main external combustion agent at Dresden was gasoline, as described by David Irving[176] (emphases added by author):

The Steel girders had been winched out of the ruins of the Renner department store on the Altmarkt and these had been laid across crudely collected piles of sandstone blocks. A gigantic grill over twenty-feet long was being erected. Under the steel girders and bars were poked bundles of wood and straw. On top of the grill were heaped the corpses, four or five hundred at a time, with more straw between each layer. The soldiers trampled up and down on top of this rotting heap, straightening the victims, trying to make room for more, and carefully building the stack. […] Finally gallons of gasoline, sorely needed though it was throughout the whole Reich, were poured over the stacks of victims. A senior officer cleared the Altmarkt square of all unnecessary by-standers, and set a match to the heap.

The procedure was successful in reducing the corpses to ashes, as described by British historian Frederick Taylor (emphases added by author):

Corpses were shipped in and laid out ready for registration and, if possible, identification. Searching for ways of keeping them off the ground – and allowing a draft under the planned funeral pyres – workers found a solution in the wreck of a nearby department store, where massive window shutters had survived the bombing. They carried them from the ruins and set them down on the ground, making, as a contemporary grimly expressed it, "huge grill racks." Large amounts of gasoline were trucked into the sealed city center. Teams poured petrol over the bodies as they lay piled on the shutters. Then the dead were burned at the rate of one pyre per day, with around five hundred corpses per pyre. The task was efficiently done. To reduce that number of human remains to fine ash without access to a purpose-built crematorium is a technically problematic process. It was carried out under the supervision of outside SS experts. They were said to be former staff from the notorious extermination camp at Treblinka. Between February 21 and March 5, when the last pyre was lit, 6,865 bodies were burned on the Altmarkt. Afterward, when the fire cooled down, it was estimated that between eight and ten cubic meters of ash covered the cobbled surface of the medieval square. The SS in charge of the burning had intended to transport the ashes out to the Heath Cemetery in boxes and sacks and bury them containers and all, but municipal parsimony triumphed. In the end the ashes were simply emptied out of their containers and into the prepared pits, thus enabling the valuable sacks and boxes to be reused. [177]

Then there's this primary source , which confirms that the bodies were cremated enough to be called "ash" and boxed or sacked:

The document StAD, Marstall- und Bestattungsamt, Nachtrag I - Schreiben, 4.3.1945, referred to in Matthias Neutzner, Martha Heinrich Acht, pp. 91, 93 and 221, partially quoted in the excerpt from Martha Heinrich Acht transcribed and translated here (emphasis added):
Thousands of corpses still had to be retrieved and buried. A task that the available forces were not up to: thus, after Gauleiter and city administration had agreed, corpses were collected on the sealed-off Altmarkt, registered and finally burned. This happened »in consideration of the quickly progressing decomposition and the existing extraordinary difficulties in retrieving [the corpses] as well as the lack of suitable vehicles for transportation to cemeteries«, was stated in the Order Police's final report. For two weeks the old market place in the city center became a crematorium. On 5 March the corpses collected in the streets had been retrieved, the pyres gone out. »By my estimate, 8 - 10 cubic meters of ash lay on the Altmarkt«, was reported to the city administration the day before. »The Brigadeführer wished that this ash be loaded into recipients (boxes or sacks) and transported to the Heidefriedhof, where it is to be sunk into the earth at the place marked in lead on the map. It is not necessary to leave the boxes or sacks in the soil. You shall thus pour the ash from the transport recipients into the soil, so that the recipients can be reused several times. Transport should start on Tuesday.«

Irving's description implies gasoline was significant here, more so , than wood and straw. I don't see much wood or straw in the photos. I don't see any "cords" or huge piles of wood anywhere around that revisionists would deem necessary. The wood underneath the pyres seems to be planked, etc, meaning it just came from wreckage.

[Stubble]

Bombsaway, the color photograph shows white smoke, that'd be steam, accelerant throws black smoke.

If the primary wasn't wood, how do you go about explaining;

1) white smoke
2) how fuel was added
3) how the pyre did not explode upon ignition

These are important questions.

I'm going through the German military manuals housed at the national archives looking for 'expedient corpse disposal' so I can see if I can get you the SOP and the ratios.

This style of pyre was (according to my research) pioneered during ww1, and so literature should be extant.

Fangers has raised a valid point, the reason for the raised bed may well have been to introduce fresh solid fuel under the remains. That makes solid sense and explains why the gap existed in the first place.

[Wetzelrad]

Irving's description implies gasoline was significant here, more so , than wood and straw.

Huh? The direct quote of Irving that you posted has "bundles" of wood and straw on the bottom with additional straw in the middle. That is substantially more than mere "gallons" of gasoline. The photos confirm this.

Moreover, the gasoline was merely used to start the fire. It wasn't added over time, as it would need to be to contribute meaningfully to cremation.

I don't see much wood or straw in the photos. I don't see any "cords" or huge piles of wood anywhere around that revisionists would deem necessary. The wood underneath the pyres seems to be planked, etc, meaning it just came from wreckage.

I agree that there is not enough wood pictured for cremation, but wood actually does appear in the photos, unlike gasoline. As you point out, this problem was remedied by pulling more scrap wood from the surrounding ruins.

[Nazgul]

Bombsaway, the color photograph shows white smoke, that'd be steam, accelerant throws black smoke.

Nope try alcohol.. aka ethanol, methanol etc. See if you can get black smoke. The only accelerants that have black smoke is those with carbon in their molecules, and burning with insufficient air, leaving the black carbon to go into the atmosphere.

[Wahrheitssucher]

For those unfamiliar, Dresden was mercilessly bombed during a festival. This saturation bombing of a civilian target was a joint allied effort.

The fires that resulted were so thorough that they scavenged the oxygen from the city and suffocated those who had gone underground thinking they had found shelter.

Their suffocated bodies were dragged into the square and burned on pyres.

This was a hygienic measure to desiccate the remains before burial as they had begun to rot.

I can concede a mistake when I make one, this was just a brain fart (which no one called me out about)…

Because we are talking about a mass-murder of the civilian, non-combatant population of almost an entire city it is obvious that traditional burials were not immediately possible amid the rubble. Consequently the German authorities established open-air cremation pyres across the city to prevent the incubation and spread of disease from rotting corpses.
THAT is the reason for these makeshift mass-cremations of bodies doused in petroleum piled on iron grates incinerated by wood, in public squares.
These particular photos show such a pyre at Altmarkt square in the city centre, near the remains of the Frauenkirche church.
According to the official German report Tagesbefehl (Order of the Day) No. 47, issued on March 22, 1945, by Dresden police headquarters 6,865 bodies were cremated there by that date. So we are talking about perhaps seven thousand bodies partially burnt to prevent disease! NOT the holyH’s millions impossibly burnt to fine ash and made to magically disappear!

Later, when more bodies were recovered from the rubble these were moved out of the city centre and buried in mass graves.
Obvious to anyone genuinely interested in what actually occurred (so not dimwits like Bombsaway or the other holyH promoters here) individual burials were not possible due to various factors including no surviving relatives available to identify victims, destroyed infrastructure, frozen ground, and the urgent need to prevent disease outbreaks (e.g., typhus) in a city that still had about a million survivors of the Allied atrocity.

Primary sites of mass graves of recovered corpses:
Heinrichstrasse Cemetery (northwest Dresden): ~7,000–8,000 bodies interred in deep communal pits.
Tolkewitz Cemetery (south Dresden): ~6,000–7,000 bodies.
Nordfriedhof and Loschwitzer Friedhof: ~4,000–5,000 combined.
Ad-hoc pits in city parks, rubble fields, and bomb craters (e.g., Grosser Garten park): ~2,000–3,000.
Total = ~23,000 bodies buried in mass graves.

SUMMARY:
The number of bodies cremated at Dresden to prevent disease is nowhere near the amount that the holyH mass-delusion claims occurred at Treblinka, Chelmno, Auschwitz, etc. So comparing them as if they are equal is both ignorant and unintelligent.
Apologists for the holyH narrative will ignore this obvious and significant difference because they are not interested in looking at the actual facts intelligently, honestly and fairly. They are here to buttress a baloney belief-system. One that has been used to justify a genuine eight-decades long, slow genocide that we all just witnessed as it’s last stages just occurred in Gaza over the last TWO YEARS!

CONCLUSION:
What we are witnessing with Bombsaway is an immoral mindset (perhaps in his case a subliminal one). One that thinks that cruelly mass-murdering non-jews is of minor importance. Only the claimed mass-murder of ‘jews’ deserves our sympathy, respect and memorialisation. No museums worldwide to the genuine holocaust of incinerated victims of Allied mass-murder at Dresden, Cologne, Frankfurt, Hiroshima, Nagazaki, Tokyo, etc. No! Instead immorality and a desire to perpetuate a mass-deception makes a person think that posting misinformation about the cruelly mass-murdered civilians of Dresden is merely a ‘brain fart’.

[Stubble]

Bombsaway, the color photograph shows white smoke, that'd be steam, accelerant throws black smoke.

Nope try alcohol.. aka ethanol, methanol etc. See if you can get black smoke. The only accelerants that have black smoke is those with carbon in their molecules, and burning with insufficient air, leaving the black carbon to go into the atmosphere.

Correct (sort of). You need 3 things for complete combustion, fuel, air and heat.

We are talking about copious amounts of gasoline on a cremation pyre.

We are not talking about everclear in a low ball.

This is an apples/bananas comparison.

On the makeup of ethanol;



Note, the carbon, hence, you can make soot with it. It isn't a car tire or anything, but, it isn't 'carbon free', not that that is a particularly important point.

[bombsaway]

Bombsaway, the color photograph shows white smoke, that'd be steam, accelerant throws black smoke.

If the primary wasn't wood, how do you go about explaining;

1) white smoke
2) how fuel was added
3) how the pyre did not explode upon ignition

These are important questions.

I'm going through the German military manuals housed at the national archives looking for 'expedient corpse disposal' so I can see if I can get you the SOP and the ratios.

This style of pyre was (according to my research) pioneered during ww1, and so literature should be extant.

Fangers has raised a valid point, the reason for the raised bed may well have been to introduce fresh solid fuel under the remains. That makes solid sense and explains why the gap existed in the first place.

1) water vapor https://chatgpt.com/s/t_68f146efb158819 ... a539e9d477

2)

3) see above