Why do the reality deniers run from this simple question? [non-nefarious diggings]

[bombsaway]

They claim there was more than enough space to accommodate the number of people they claim were buried there.

The question is, did the Nazis dig only as much as they thought would fit, or did they not care and dig beyond what they needed? They allegedly built oversized gas chambers, meaning they weren't particularly concerned with dimensioning things. In other words, even if the true size of this disturbed soil is proven or we calculate with maximum efficiency how many bodies could fit per cubic meter, the question is irrelevant compared to the challenges of destroying bodies, which were beyond their capabilities.

What made it beyond their capabilities?

[TlsMS93]

What made it beyond their capabilities?

The combustion material, which even the witnesses disagree. This is just one of the cascading problems of this whole process, but then you'll say I'm getting off topic, so let's leave it at that for another time, shall we?

[bombsaway]

What made it beyond their capabilities?

The combustion material, which even the witnesses disagree. This is just one of the cascading problems of this whole process, but then you'll say I'm getting off topic, so let's leave it at that for another time, shall we?

It is off topic for this topic, but more meaningful is the fact this has been addressed before.

[Stubble]

You're still trying to have it both ways Bombsaway...

Either the fuel requirement was minimal and the bodies were merely desiccated, or the fuel requirement was legendary and the remains were completely obliterated. Each hypothesis is mutually exclusive.

You lean on a minimum fuel requirement, then pivot to complete obliteration, and say the fuel requirement is settled. It isn't, any more than the grave space problem.

With the grave space problem, you unironically lean on Kola and simultaneously say there is no shortage of grave space, as you treat the bodies as a fluid and cut the death toll by 1/3 and say 'see, it fits'.

To do this, you have to ignore ANY non nefarious hole in the ground and assume 100% of holes in any camp along the Bug River are 'huge mass graves'.

We get it, you don't have an argument. Kindly stop pretending that you do.

[bombsaway]

You're still trying to have it both ways Bombsaway...

Either the fuel requirement was minimal and the bodies were merely desiccated, or the fuel requirement was legendary and the remains were completely obliterated. Each hypothesis is mutually exclusive.

You lean on a minimum fuel requirement, then pivot to complete obliteration, and say the fuel requirement is settled. It isn't, any more than the grave space problem.

With the grave space problem, you unironically lean on Kola and simultaneously say there is no shortage of grave space, as you treat the bodies as a fluid and cut the death toll by 1/3 and say 'see, it fits'.

To do this, you have to ignore ANY non nefarious hole in the ground and assume 100% of holes in any camp along the Bug River are 'huge mass graves'.

We get it, you don't have an argument. Kindly stop pretending that you do.

I mean you may think I have no argument, there we disagree. You have slipped further and further into the hole of self delusion furthered by the echo chamber here, but whatever that's your prerogative.

None of your points make much sense to me, eg the assertion that I lean on a tiny fuel requirement? Not so, fuel requirement was considerable, but assuming it was all liquid fuels not beyond the capability of NS Germany.

There are unknowns here, just like there are for your assertion about maintenance of resettled Jews in these territories. They must have been fed, secured, supplied as well (cascading problems for you, not addressed at all). The issue of supplying the ghettos was a huge one for NS Germany in Poland at least and v important in the decision to empty them.

[Stubble]

Bombsaway, how many holes at Belzec, for example, are 'non nefarious'? Sticking to the op.

The slop about infinite liquid fuel I won't even bother getting in to because it is so patently absurd.

Food for thought, while you keep saying 'I have nothing' I continue to compile records and to winnow them. I have different things. I'm not ready to publish, but, you are being extremely dismissive saying I have nothing, where I indeed have something, which isn't nothing.

[bombsaway]

Bombsaway, how many holes at Belzec, for example, are 'non nefarious'? Sticking to the op.

The slop about infinite liquid fuel I won't even bother getting in to because it is so patently absurd.

Food for thought, while you keep saying 'I have nothing' I continue to compile records and to winnow them. I have different things. I'm not ready to publish, but, you are being extremely dismissive saying I have nothing, where I indeed have something, which isn't nothing.

The few things you have presented here as evidence have been total nothingburgers so pardon me for the presumption. Until you show something that presumption will not change, I have zero trust re your judgement.

Of Kola's 30 something graves I think all of them contain human remains. https://www.holocausthistoricalsociety. ... tions.html

[Stubble]

You told me the Hungarian cohort was gassed at Auschwitz.

I showed you Hungarian jews shipped into Ostland, Ukraine, Austria and to recovery camps from Auschwitz Birkenau.

Your retort? 'Mainstream historians know about this'. You never adjusted the number of gassed jews however. That number dwindles even when just looking at the mainstream accounting for the cohort...

That's not nothing Bombsaway, that's you being dismissive.

I can't even get 300,000 missing Hungarian jews that ostensibly could have been gassed...

Going back to the thread here, the number of the counting is 33. You say that the 33 'huge mass graves' at Belzec are 'huge mass graves' then...

Ok, where was the latrine?

[TlsMS93]

Why should I give credibility to ground-based research without peer review and with clear limitations?

Would we know much about Ancient Egypt if only what Kola used were allowed?

Even if an amount of ash equivalent to 10,000 bodies were found, this is in no way evidence of mass murder. It could at most be a cover-up of a crime, but to allege genocide, one would have to find the remains of 600,000 people who allegedly died there. It's difficult to argue that 600,000 people would die of disease in such a short space of time.

To say that it's impossible to determine the difference between human and charcoal ash is a straw man's argument; in fact, it's expected that more wood ash exists than body ash.

[HansHill]

They claim there was more than enough space to accommodate the number of people they claim were buried there.

The question is, did the Nazis dig only as much as they thought would fit, or did they not care and dig beyond what they needed? They allegedly built oversized gas chambers, meaning they weren't particularly concerned with dimensioning things. In other words, even if the true size of this disturbed soil is proven or we calculate with maximum efficiency how many bodies could fit per cubic meter, the question is irrelevant compared to the challenges of destroying bodies, which were beyond their capabilities.

This is such a good point, and I see BA has no answer to this.

Its the same backwards rationality as arriving at exactly 300ppm HcN concentration. The concentration was absolutely perfect because it needed to be, just like the size of the disturbed earth.

[bombsaway]

They claim there was more than enough space to accommodate the number of people they claim were buried there.

The question is, did the Nazis dig only as much as they thought would fit, or did they not care and dig beyond what they needed? They allegedly built oversized gas chambers, meaning they weren't particularly concerned with dimensioning things. In other words, even if the true size of this disturbed soil is proven or we calculate with maximum efficiency how many bodies could fit per cubic meter, the question is irrelevant compared to the challenges of destroying bodies, which were beyond their capabilities.

This is such a good point, and I see BA has no answer to this.

Its the same backwards rationality as arriving at exactly 300ppm HcN concentration. The concentration was absolutely perfect because it needed to be, just like the size of the disturbed earth.

I mean this point makes no sense to me, or the obvious was stated above, in bold.

They dug holes, filling with bodies, then stopped when there were no more bodies.

[Stubble]

Bombsaway, you assert that all 33 holes at Belzec are 'huge mass graves', as you previously stated.

Now, this begs the question, where was the latrine?

Did they, just not have a latrine Bombsaway? What did they do, just, hold it for 18 odd months?

[Callafangers]

Did they, just not have a latrine Bombsaway? What did they do, just, hold it for 18 odd months?

Plot twist: their explosive bowel movements were used as additional fuel for the cremations.

Checkmate, deniers.

[bombsaway]

Bombsaway, you assert that all 33 holes at Belzec are 'huge mass graves', as you previously stated.

Now, this begs the question, where was the latrine?

Did they, just not have a latrine Bombsaway? What did they do, just, hold it for 18 odd months?

A grave would be something that contains human remains, so unless Kola found this , not a grave

[Stubble]

Holy shit Bombsaway, you are absolutely missing the point of the thread.

Kola found 33 'huge mass graves' at Belzec and by that I mean, 'ground disturbances'. Go look at it.

The whole point here in this thread is non nefarious holes.

You just brush that off...

You can't just brush that off.

What hole is the latrine, and why is it labeled a 'huge mass grave'.

It's like the problem with 'huge mass grave' 1 & 2 at Sobibor, which are in fact, not huge mass graves...

Even grave 5 at Sobibor is basically just clean fill with a layer of hair and some ashes at the bottom.

You don't have 'huge mass graves', you have ground disturbances that when probed turn up clean fill, not human remains, unless you count a pony tail.