Why do the reality deniers run from this simple question? [non-nefarious diggings]

[Keen]

You have an odd definition of glossing over, as you post examples of where grave robbing and excavations such as latrines are discussed by those who have physically examined the site.

Nessie has now made four posts in this thread without answering the simple question in the OP:

A - Is it - True. - or - False. - that; Non-nefarious diggings for such things as garbage pits, cellars, wells, latrines, septic pits, etc. - were dug at Belzec, Chelmno, Ponary, Sobibor and Treblinka II - ??

Look at the lying coward run from the simple question!

The only way the lying coward can defend his lies, is to not defend them!

How hilarious is it to watch the lying coward run from a question that asks:

"Why do the reality deniers run from this simple question?"



What are you waiting for Nessie?

What are you so afraid of?

[Keen]

See below for the sort of thing I am criticizing. Notice that below you assume 100% of the soil disruptions were packed with bodies. See also your "Olympic swimming pools" nonsense in that same thread.

Nessie, bombsaway, and any other lying coward participating in this thread, should be required to answer the question in the OP or be banned from participating in this thread.

[Keen]

Yitzhak Arad on page 380 of his book Belzec, Sobibor, Treblinka. The Operation Reinhard Death Camps:

Scenes of this kind ["robery digging" at Treblinka II] also took place in the fields of Belzec and Sobibor. The search for treasures continued. The area was dug up again and again, and each section of the land was checked thoroughly by local people and people from afar who tried their luck. These acts ceased only when the Polish government decided to turn the camp areas into national memorial sites.

[bombsaway]

Yitzhak Arad on page 380 of his book Belzec, Sobibor, Treblinka. The Operation Reinhard Death Camps:

Scenes of this kind ["robery digging" at Treblinka II] also took place in the fields of Belzec and Sobibor. The search for treasures continued. The area was dug up again and again, and each section of the land was checked thoroughly by local people and people from afar who tried their luck. These acts ceased only when the Polish government decided to turn the camp areas into national memorial sites.

One might wonder why these digs continued year after year by "local people and people from afar". In the revisionist view, this must be because the locals promulgated the false story. For those that say T2 wasn't the destination, they were lying about that, because that location would have been known to people in a small town. Most revisionists consider T2 the destination, so they should also be concerned by the knowledge that while internal runnings of the camp were known only through rumor, the fact that Jews coming in and out would have been know. The locals would have aware of trains and Jews coming out of the camp, if there's no Jews coming out, or very few, but an enormous amount coming in, that's a death camp given the small size of the area.

[Callafangers]

Yitzhak Arad on page 380 of his book Belzec, Sobibor, Treblinka. The Operation Reinhard Death Camps:

Scenes of this kind ["robery digging" at Treblinka II] also took place in the fields of Belzec and Sobibor. The search for treasures continued. The area was dug up again and again, and each section of the land was checked thoroughly by local people and people from afar who tried their luck. These acts ceased only when the Polish government decided to turn the camp areas into national memorial sites.

One might wonder why these digs continued year after year by "local people and people from afar". In the revisionist view, this must be because the locals promulgated the false story. For those that say T2 wasn't the destination, they were lying about that, because that location would have been known to people in a small town. Most revisionists consider T2 the destination, so they should also be concerned by the knowledge that while internal runnings of the camp were known only through rumor, the fact that Jews coming in and out would have been know. The locals would have aware of trains and Jews coming out of the camp, if there's no Jews coming out, or very few, but an enormous amount coming in, that's a death camp given the small size of the area.

The narrative was already being promulgated, nobody questions that. But there is also some evidence that people were in fact buried at these locations. Keen looks at it more critically but many of us here accept there are likely some thousands of presumed corpses (often cremated) buried at some of these locations, suggesting that locals and others could expect to find something there. But when inventing a 'Holocaust', it is natural to claim a place of actual cremations or burials as a place where infinity cremations or burials occurred. Unfortunately for your side of things, there are enough liars (e.g. Gerstein) who make it more than reasonable to question the stories about the scale and nature of operations there.

Altogether, this puts grave robbing related disturbances more firmly favorable to the revisionist position because your already flailing lack of quantity (even if accepting most 'disturbed areas' as actual grave sites) is further diluted and diminished by the fact of frequent pillaging/mixing of the earth there (indicating 'disturbed areas' as not indicative of actual grave volume, just areas where visitors dug).

[bombsaway]

Your postulation is that these people were continuously ransacking a site where a few thousand property dispossessed Jews were buried. So much so it was called the Treblinka Gold Rush. I don't know why these people would have kept returning for decades if they weren't finding anything. I don't think they would have.

[Callafangers]

Your postulation is that these people were continuously ransacking a site where a few thousand property dispossessed Jews were buried. So much so it was called the Treblinka Gold Rush. I don't know why these people would have kept returning for decades if they weren't finding anything. I don't think they would have.

Good point. So, are you saying they were finding property (valuables) rather than useless bone meal?

That would align with exactly what Sturdy-Colls found as well.

Thanks for your revisionism, bombsaway.

[bombsaway]

Your postulation is that these people were continuously ransacking a site where a few thousand property dispossessed Jews were buried. So much so it was called the Treblinka Gold Rush. I don't know why these people would have kept returning for decades if they weren't finding anything. I don't think they would have.

Good point. So, are you saying they were finding property (valuables) rather than useless bone meal?

That would align with exactly what Sturdy-Colls found as well.

Thanks for your revisionism, bombsaway.

Why would they dig for bone meal lol?

Yeah precious metals those killed had tried to smuggle through. Makes sense for hundreds of thousands, not thousands.

[Callafangers]

Why would they dig for bone meal lol?

Fuggin' exactly.

Yeah precious metals those killed had tried to smuggle through. Makes sense for hundreds of thousands, not thousands.

Or, these were above-all property-sorting centers, hence the name Reinhardt [with a 't'] and the evidence detailed by PrudentRegret.

[bombsaway]

Why would they dig for bone meal lol?

Fuggin' exactly.

Yeah precious metals those killed had tried to smuggle through. Makes sense for hundreds of thousands, not thousands.

Or, these were above-all property-sorting centers, hence the name Reinhardt [with a 't'] and the evidence detailed by PrudentRegret.

So people were digging for decades, finding absolutely nothing? Gotcha. I think this was jewelry and things the Jews swallowed or hid on their bodies in some other way.

[Callafangers]

Yeah precious metals those killed had tried to smuggle through. Makes sense for hundreds of thousands, not thousands.

Or, these were above-all property-sorting centers, hence the name Reinhardt [with a 't'] and the evidence detailed by PrudentRegret.

So people were digging for decades, finding absolutely nothing? Gotcha. I think this was jewelry and things the Jews swallowed or hid on their bodies in some other way.

bombsaway, this appears to be a major sticking point for you, so I am honored to assist you in this 'breakthrough' that might finally win you over for revisionism...

The logic is: Germans were confiscating lots of property that needed sorting and management, so this was sent (with or without accompanying Jews) to these Reinhardt camps. That's why we see so much discarded/buried property there (much of which might not have met the criteria to keep and be restored or sent into Germany, but could still be considered of value to some). That's why Sturdy-Colls finds it. And that's why people were digging for decades.

If they were just finding smelly corpses or cremains, they would likely not have continued digging. If they were finding lots of property instead, they would have kept digging. Finding lots of property also supports questions of grave volume favorable to revisionism.

Welcome to 'Holocaust Denial', bombsaway. We are glad to have you. You'll do great.

[bombsaway]

Or, these were above-all property-sorting centers, hence the name Reinhardt [with a 't'] and the evidence detailed by PrudentRegret.

So people were digging for decades, finding absolutely nothing? Gotcha. I think this was jewelry and things the Jews swallowed or hid on their bodies in some other way.

bombsaway, this appears to be a major sticking point for you, so I am honored to assist you in this 'breakthrough' that might finally win you over for revisionism...

The logic is: Germans were confiscating lots of property that needed sorting and management, so this was sent (with or without accompanying Jews) to these Reinhardt camps. That's why we see so much discarded/buried property there (much of which might not have met the criteria to keep and be restored or sent into Germany, but could still be considered of value to some). That's why Sturdy-Colls finds it. And that's why people were digging for decades.

If they were just finding smelly corpses or cremains, they would likely not have continued digging. If they were finding lots of property instead, they would have kept digging. Finding lots of property also supports questions of grave volume favorable to revisionism.

Welcome to 'Holocaust Denial', bombsaway. We are glad to have you. You'll do great.

Your position is not supported by the body of evidence, mine is.

Based on the book "Golden Harvest," here are the direct quotes about what was actually dug up at the death camp sites:
Evidence of Valuables/Gold Found:
Page 21-22 (Rachela Auerbach's November 1945 visit):

"They dig, they search, pulling out bones and body parts. Maybe something could still be found," she wrote, "maybe a golden tooth?"

Page 21 (September 1945 visit by Kalembasiak and Ogrodowczyk):

"The entire area was scarred with recently dug pits, several of them meters deep, and human bones were scattered all around... People discovered sifting through the ashes didn't bother to answer when asked what they were doing."
"We were terrified because in a peasant hut some dozen meters from the house where we spent the night, a woman was tortured with live fire to reveal the place where she was hiding gold and valuables."

Page 22 (Dominik Kucharek case):

"Dominik Kucharek, a gleaner from Treblinka who had been served with an indictment for violating foreign-exchange laws—he tried to sell in Warsaw a diamond he found at Treblinka"

Page 24 (Bełżec commission report, October 1945):

"the area of the camp has been dug up by local people looking for gold and precious stones left by murdered Jews"

Page 115-116 provides context for the parish priest's comment:

"when the question primarily requires a filter on 'when' rather than searching by 'what'... the parson from neighboring Jasienica finally said something... on the subject of digging in the cemetery of ashes in neighboring Treblinka: 'These are Jewish graves and golden laces or jewels should not remain in the ground.'"

The Golden Ring Story (Pages 123-124):

"On May 5, 2006, a well-to-do gentlemen showed up in the small museum at the Bełżec extermination camp and handed the staff a golden ring."

"Everybody knew," as he put it, that Bełżec is a "gold mine."

[Callafangers]

And here is an apparent source for your initial quote, there:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... -camp.html

Notice that Auerbach says:

They dig, they search, pulling out bones and body parts. Maybe something could still be found...maybe a golden tooth?

Hmm, that sounds like actual human bones rather than bone fragments, doesn't it? If so, this is totally at odds with the official narrative, and takes your possible death toll down by a factor of 100 or more (given volume constraints). But does "bones and body parts" mean bone fragments, perhaps?

Nope -- doesn't seem like it, since they included a photo as well!

article-1355086-0D178B31000005DC-624_634x434.jpg (116.75 KiB) Viewed 46 times

Thank you for proving that only scattered bones and property were found at Treblinka, bombsaway.

[bombsaway]

And here is an apparent source for your initial quote, there:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... -camp.html

Notice that Auerbach says:

They dig, they search, pulling out bones and body parts. Maybe something could still be found...maybe a golden tooth?

Hmm, that sounds like actual human bones rather than bone fragments, doesn't it? If so, this is totally at odds with the official narrative, and takes your possible death toll down by a factor of 100 or more (given volume constraints). But does "bones and body parts" mean bone fragments, perhaps?

Nope -- doesn't seem like it, since they included a photo as well!


article-1355086-0D178B31000005DC-624_634x434.jpg

Thank you for proving that only scattered bones and property were found at Treblinka, bombsaway.

This would be a strong point for you if intact bones/body parts and ash were mutually exclusive. They're not as per the digs. Read Kola or the ones after the war eg

Along the camp’s northern border, from about the middle until the point where it touches the eastern border, the camp area is churned up and plowed through in a width of about 100 meters. Also a strip along the whole eastern border is dug up and churned up in a width reaching up to the middle of the whole camp area. According to information from the assisting public servants of the citizens’ militia from the militia post in Belzec, the described churning-up of the camp area comes from the neighboring population, which was searching for gold and jewels left behind by the murdered Jews. In the churned-up area there lie huge amounts of scattered human bones, skulls, vertebrae, ribs, shinbones, jawbones, tooth implants made of rubber, hair (mainly female and often braided), furthermore pieces of decomposed human flesh like hands and lower limbs of little children. Furthermore there lie on the whole area described above huge amounts of ashes from the burned victims as well as remains of the burned human bones. From the deeply dug-up holes there comes the smell of decomposing human bodies. All this proves that the camp area along the northern and eastern border is a continuous common grave of the people murdered in the camp.

[Stubble]

Bombsaway, how would Kola have extracted a femur with his apparatus? It would have come up in his bore sample as a fragment, yes?

I don't think you can kick back on Kola here to say that the bones were fragmented, as his apparatus, by nature of operation, would have fragmented bone.