Criticism of Jews as a Collective (Not Just as Individuals) is Ethical and Warranted

[Nazgul]

Are Jews a strong collective (unity/cohesion)? Indisputably, yes, demonstrable by the size/number and strength of their organizations. Has it been reasonably demonstrated that these collective ambitions are quite concerning and problematic for the national interest(s)? Yes, absolutely, demonstrable by the patterns of shared and common initiatives among these organizations.

Been There always referred to them as International Jews. Yes they could be a true light as many are highly intelligent like Einstein. It seems the nefarious ones who hold the $ have used it to hold the power for their own ends.
After acquiring so much power, Jews could have acted as a true "light among nations"... but instead have used that power for their own purposes? I am of the opinion that the ancient Jews were the Habiru mentioned in ancient Egyptian texts. These were not the Ashkenazi which dominate Europe today, from Khazaria.

[Wahrheitssucher]

Q. Are Jews a strong collective (unity/cohesion)?
A. Indisputably, yes, demonstrable by the size/number and strength of their organizations.

Q. Has it been reasonably demonstrated that these collective ambitions are quite concerning and problematic for the national interest(s)?
A. Yes, absolutely, demonstrable by the patterns of shared and common initiatives among these organizations.

Been There always referred to them as International Jews.

Some collectives of jews operate internationally. Some do not.

Jews who operate together across all nations and across all intellectual, societal boundaries have fairly and accurately been referred to as ‘international jewry’.

That doesn’t refer to each and every single person who self-identifies as being ‘jewish’. It refers (obviously) to a collective consisting only of jews that operates internationally.

Churchill used the term in an article he wrote in February 1920.

International Jews
In violent opposition to all this sphere of Jewish effort rise the schemes of the International Jews. The adherents of this sinister confederacy are mostly men reared up among the unhappy populations of countries where Jews are persecuted on account of their race.
Most, if not all, of them have forsaken the faith of their forefathers, and divorced from their minds all spiritual hopes of the next world. This movement among the Jew's is not new. From the days of Spartacus-Weishaupt to those of Karl Marx, and down to Trotsky (Russia), Bela Kun (Hungary), Rosa Luxembourg (Germany), and Emma Goldman (United States), this world-wide conspiracy for the overthrow of civilisation and for the reconstitution of society on the basis of arrested development, of envious malevolence, and impossible equality, has been steadily growing.
It played, as a modern writer Mrs. Webster has so ably shown, a definitely recognisable part in the tragedy of the French Revolution. It has been the mainspring of every subversive movement during the Nineteenth Century; and now at last this band of extraordinary personalities from the underworld of the great cities of Europe and America have gripped the Russian people by the hair of their heads and have become practically the undisputed masters of that enormous empire.
https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Zionism_ ... Bolshevism

The ‘Council of World Jewry’ can be called a collective of ‘international jewry’.
Here is their mission statement:

The Council for World Jewry has worked to combat white supremacy and domestic terrorism, adopting a more holistic approach and highlighting the international nature of these threats.
https://worldjewry.org/priorities/

The World Jewish Congress (WJC) is another international federation of Jewish communities and organisations. It was founded in Geneva, Switzerland, in August 1936. The infamous rabble-rouser and first jewish promoter of what is now reverently referred to as ‘THE Holocaust’ Samuel Untermeyer was a one its most well-known representatives.

Question:
Is it permissible and even ethically warranted to criticise these Jewish collectives if and when they are perceived as acting together for evil ends?

That is the question posed in this topic-thread.

I think the answer is rather obvious to any decent, morally upright, intelligent person. It is ‘yes, of course!’

That people who self-identify as jewish think such a view is ‘bad’ and falsely call it ‘anti-semitism’ is a sign of the moral decadence that jews have been conditioned with since ‘the holocaust’ became their quasi-religious belief-system.

[Nazgul]

That people who self-identify as jewish think such a view is ‘bad’ and falsely call it ‘anti-semitism’ is a sign of the moral decadence that jews have been conditioned with since ‘the holocaust’ became their quasi-religious belief-system.

Assumptions about people you know nothing about. You seem to write with many assumptions, no foundation or facts to support the belief system you operate in. Jews do not self identify, like most others there is a family history. I know some aboriginals of the antipodes that identify as Jewish, but they are not; not to me to break their bubble of illusion or delusion.

As Judaism was the foundation of christianity and Islam how is that a quasi religion? The Torah is a smaller, foundational part of the Old Testament, consisting of its first five books (Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy). Interesting but to me irrelevant in the context of an atheistic world view.
I agree with you, the horrors of jewish suffering and loss during that period is a holocaust; it does not need gaskammer or Einsatzgruppe shootings; the separation of families, the loss of homes, no hope is a holocaust. It bought the diaspora together, now concentrated mainly in the US and Israel.

The Russians suffered the most, but they had a common sense of purpose even if it was Marxism. The Jews had no state, so had to have a common purpose to create a state; this common purpose is the holocaust. Being interned, segragated, forced labour is enough; that is genocide and in my opinion "the Holocaust".

There is no need of the 5 -6 million crap to make a holocaust. Some wealthy people are exploiting the misery of others for their own nefarious gains, not individual Jewish people. If there are Jewish collectives, they are a threat to the security of a nation and should be investigated by the Intelligence Services of that country. It may be time for others to "walk away from Omelas".

[Nessie]

as the Nuremberg Laws proved, they knew that Jews did not act collectively, as there were "good" Jews, half Jews, lapsed Jews, people who could be considered German. If the Nazis knew that Jews were not an actual collective, then it is wrong to treat Jews as a collective.

The Reichstag was burned 27 February 1933 4 weeks after Hitler was declared Chancellor, alleged communists were arrested, a month later the follow occurred.
The paper below was published in March 1933

The Nuremberg laws were enacted 15 September 1935, a few years later.

The newspaper headline is an anti-Semitic trope. Jews of the world did not unite to declare war on Germany. The German and Austrian Jews would never support a war and many US Jews, who would have been of Germanic descent, would not necessarily support a war.

It is not clear why you posted that newspaper, as a reply to my comments about the Nuremberg Laws. Maybe it was because you did not get my point about the Laws proving that even the Nazis did not see the Jews as a collective.

[Nazgul]

The newspaper headline is an anti-Semitic trope. Jews of the world did not unite to declare war on Germany. The German and Austrian Jews would never support a war and many US Jews, who would have been of Germanic descent, would not necessarily support a war.

It is not clear why you posted that newspaper, as a reply to my comments about the Nuremberg Laws. Maybe it was because you did not get my point about the Laws proving that even the Nazis did not see the Jews as a collective.

The article was written by the Jewish Zionist Untermeyer, the leader of the AJC. It cannot be a trope in this historical context. This is how the Germans saw it, the Jews were aligning themselves with the Russian Communist threat. This was not a mere emotion but a real security threat. Like it or not the Germans saw themselves as the protectors of Europe considering the threat of communism of the time.

The Nuremberg laws came years later. If it were not for the Germans of the time, you would be drinking vodka instead of Highland whisky and calling everyone Tovaritch. The German people, the Nazis are the fall guys.

[Nessie]

as the Nuremberg Laws proved, they knew that Jews did not act collectively, as there were "good" Jews, half Jews, lapsed Jews, people who could be considered German. If the Nazis knew that Jews were not an actual collective, then it is wrong to treat Jews as a collective.

The Reichstag was burned 27 February 1933 4 weeks after Hitler was declared Chancellor, alleged communists were arrested, a month later the follow occurred.
The paper below was published in March 1933
[...]
The Nuremberg laws were enacted 15 September 1935, a few years later.

Nessie is clinging to a false dichotomy, here: "well, they're clearly not a collective since Jews are also individuals!"

I and others have made clear multiple times that Jews, like everyone else, are capable of being both a collective and individuals. It is not "one or the other".

Which means that it is wrong to attribute anything to Jews as a collective, so criticism of them is not warranted or ethical.

But the question is/are:

- whether there is a considerable degree of collective unity and ambitions
- whether these ambitions are good for national (non-Jewish) interests

Are Jews a strong collective (unity/cohesion)? Indisputably, yes, demonstrable by the size/number and strength of their organizations. Has it been reasonably demonstrated that these collective ambitions are quite concerning and problematic for the national interest(s)? Yes, absolutely, demonstrable by the patterns of shared and common initiatives among these organizations.

I do not believe that anything approaching an academic, fair, research study has gone into determining that Jews are a strong collective, compared to other collectives. I believe that there has been a similar form of study to that which concluded 6 million was a predetermined figure for the WWII death toll. If the only figure searched for, is 6 million, then that is the only figure that will be found, creating a false impression of how common and significant its use was. In the same way, if the only search is for Jews acting as a collective, then that is all that will be found. Confirmation bias is strong when conspiracists look for evidence.

After acquiring so much power, Jews could have acted as a true "light among nations"... but how instead have they used that power?


bb.jpg

Again, I do not believe that there has been a genuine study into how Jews act in national, as opposed to Jewish interests. Do British Jews really act in favour of their religion, over their nationality? What evidence is there, of that happening?

[Nessie]

Question:
Is it permissible and even ethically warranted to criticise these Jewish collectives if and when they are perceived as acting together for evil ends?

That is the question posed in this topic-thread.

I think the answer is rather obvious to any decent, morally upright, intelligent person. It is ‘yes, of course!’

Agreed. It is acceptable to criticise collectives such as the WJC. It is wrong to hold all Jews collectively, for the actions of the WJC.

[Nazgul]

Again, I do not believe that there has been a genuine study into how Jews act in national, as opposed to Jewish interests. Do British Jews really act in favour of their religion, over their nationality? What evidence is there, of that happening?

You fail to understand what a Jew is. A jew is a combination of culture and religion, including ethnicity. I am a national socialist Jew, knowing my family heritage. its actually German, Scottish.
To me a holocaust would be losing an identity, which is what millions suffered during WWII. It is losing an identity which became the hallmark of Israel. Identities become strong after being forged in fire as every INFJ Σ knows. Killing the soul is not equivalent to killing the body, it is more cruel. The Jews who survived the psychological torture became resiliant, hence the state of Israel.

[Eye of Zyclone]

Jews can't be criticized as a collective. They can only be pitied (and rewarded for it with statehood in the homeland of Palestinians) as a collective. Too bad the Palestinians can visibly be punished as a collective for the [alleged] actions of some Hamas resistance fighters during a counter strike on Jewish occupiers 2 years ago. The privilege of chosenness, I guess...

[Eye of Zyclone]

But, as the Nuremberg Laws proved, they knew that Jews did not act collectively, as there were "good" Jews, half Jews, lapsed Jews, people who could be considered German. If the Nazis knew that Jews were not an actual collective, then it is wrong to treat Jews as a collective.

The Nuremberg Laws didn't intend to distinguish between bad jews and good jews. The Nuremberg Laws intended to define who was a jew and who wasn't a jew, just like Israel's Law of Return and its amendments did. A state can't legislate on something before saying what that thing is. Especially true for laws on races when some race-mixing took place in the past. In such cases, a line must necessarily be drawn somewhere, or else those laws can't be enforced.

[Eye of Zyclone]

A favourite of so-called revisionists, is the alleged collective Jewish boycott of Germany in the 1930s

So jews can't be regarded as an aggressive collective when some Zionist agitators led an international boycott of the 3rd Reich in the name of jews, but they must be regarded as an aggressed collective threatened by dangerous antisemites to be silenced & neutralized at all costs when some pro-Palestinian activists (like those of the BDS movement) tried to start an international boycott of the state of Israel. Heads, I win. Tails, you lose. What's the Hebrew word for "blatant double standards" ? Yehudi ???

[HansHill]

+1 Zyclone

I tried making similar points way back on page 1 of this thread but these morons never listen.

[Callafangers]

Which means that it is wrong to attribute anything to Jews as a collective, so criticism of them is not warranted or ethical.

By your logic, there would be no reason for any law enforcement to discriminate against members of the Mexican drug cartel, not even for drug-related investigations.

I do not believe that anything approaching an academic, fair, research study has gone into determining that Jews are a strong collective, compared to other collectives.

The widespread existence of Jewish federations, alone (with larger, consolidating organizations), is conclusive evidence of this (unless you care to list which other religious ethnicities have a comparable system). Remember, we are not talking about religious institutions like churches/synagogues. The Jewish federations serve an entirely different purpose, explicitly dedicated to empowerment of the Jewish collective and its effective organizing:

The Jewish Federations of North America, formerly the United Jewish Communities, is an American Jewish umbrella organization for the Jewish Federations system, representing over 350 independent Jewish communities across North America that raise and distribute over $2 billion annually, including through planned giving and endowment programs, to support social welfare, social services and educational needs. Jewish Federations also provides fundraising, organization assistance, training, and overall leadership to the Jewish Federations and communities throughout the United States and Canada.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Fe ... th_America

The Jewish Federations of North America (JFNA) represents 146 Jewish Federations and over 300 Network communities, which raise and distribute more than $3 billion annually...
We build flourishing Jewish communities that are healthy, safe, caring, welcoming and inclusive, educated and engaged, active in civil society, and connected to Israel and global Jewry.
[...]
We are the glue that bonds Jewish people and communities, globally connecting individuals and groups to each other, Israel, and over 70 countries worldwide.

https://www.jewishfederations.org/
https://www.jewishfederations.org/our-w ... ommunities

It isn't just North America, it's global:

The Zionist Federation UK, also known as the British Zionist Federation or simply the Zionist Federation (ZF), is an affiliate of the World Zionist Organisation and represents more than 15 organisations and over 30,000 affiliated members. Established in 1899...
https://www.zionist-federation.uk/about

The Board of Deputies of British Jews is the voice of the British Jewish Community, the first port of call for the Government, the media and others seeking to understand Jewish community interests and concerns.

The Board of Deputies is the only democratically elected, cross-communal, representative body in the Jewish community. It comprises over 300 deputies directly elected by the synagogues and communal organisations they represent, from congregations to youth movements, and social welfare charities to regional councils.
https://bod.org.uk/who-we-are/

Especially troubling is the extensive reach of Chabad networks (extremist ultra-orthodox Judaism):

Chabad now operates in record 86 countries
Total number of Chabad shluchim [married couples assigned by the centralized Chabad system to establish Jewish-Chabad organizations] is 4,325, in about 3,500 Chabad Houses [community organizational centers] and other Jewish institutions.
https://www.israelnationalnews.com/news/202809

It isn't just about how widespread and numerous these organizations are, either. It's about how well-consolidated they are; as in, they are all connected (this is a coalition of the largest Jewish organizations in the USA):

The proven and effective voice of organized American Jewry for more than half a century, the Conference of Presidents of Major American Jewish Organizations works publicly and behind the scenes to advance the interests of the American Jewish community, sustain broad-based support for Israel and addresses the critical concerns facing world Jewry with US and world leaders, key opinion molders and the public.

The Conference of Presidents is the preeminent forum for diverse segments of the Jewish community to come together in mutual respect to deliberate vital national and international issues, set policy and priorities, deliberate proactive strategies and take collective action.

The Conference is at the vanguard of engaging America’s leaders and the public to:

• advance the U.S.-Israel special relationship, bolster Israel’s security and prosperity and promote prospects for true and lasting peace in the Middle East;
• reinforce links between Jews worldwide, aid endangered Jewish communities and fight anti-Semitism;
• combat terrorism at home and abroad, strengthen domestic security and safeguard American Jewish institutions;
• build support at the United Nations and end the anti-Israel bias;
• defend human rights of Jews and others and build ties to Arab and Muslim countries;
• build cooperation and coalitions with diverse ethnic, religious and civic groups and other sectors of American society;
• foster international cooperation and promote U.S. national interests.

https://conferenceofpresidents.org/about/

Alpha Epsilon Pi
American Friends of Likud
American Israel Public Affairs Committee
American Jewish Committee
American Jewish Congress
American Jewish Joint Distribution Committee
American Sephardi Federation
American Zionist Movement
AMIT
Anti-Defamation League
Association of Reform Zionists of America
B’nai B’rith International
BZ Media
Central Conference of American Rabbis
Committee for Accuracy in Middle East Reporting in America
Emunah of America
Friends of Israel Defense Forces
Greater Miami Jewish Federation
Hadassah, Women’s Zionist Organization of America
HIAS – The Jewish Organization for Refugees
Hillel: The Foundation for Jewish Campus Life
Iranian American Jewish Federation
Israeli American Council
JCC Association of North America
Jewish Council for Public Affairs
Jewish Federations of North America
Jewish Institute for National Security of America
Jewish Labor Committee
Jewish National Fund
Jewish United Fund/ Jewish Federation of Metropolitan Chicago
Jewish Women International
MERCAZ USA, The Zionist Organization of the Conservative Movement
NA’AMAT USA
National Council of Jewish Women
National Council of Young Israel
NCSEJ: National Coalition Supporting Eurasian Jewry
New Jewish Narrative
ORT America
Rabbinical Assembly
Rabbinical Council of America
Religious Zionists of America
UJA Federation of New York
Union for Reform Judaism
Union of Orthodox Jewish Congregations of America
United Synagogue of Conservative Judaism
Women of Reform Judaism
Women’s International Zionist Organization
Women’s League for Conservative Judaism
World Zionist Organization
Zionist Organization of America
Cantors Assembly
Development Corporation for Israel / State of Israel Bonds
Maccabi USA

https://conferenceofpresidents.org/memb ... nizations/

Yikes.

Add that to their [dis]proportionate over-representation in key institutions (especially media, which is paramount in any democracy) and the Zionist leanings overwhelmingly common among that representation, and we are already in 100% proof territory.

Cry harder, Nessie.

[HansHill]

Cry harder, Nessie.

Computer, generate a series of CODOH thread replies from philosemites and Holocaust activists. Now fill them with cope, seethe, and cringe. Disengage safety protocols.



Thank you computer.

[Callafangers]

Oops, I didn't even factor in freemasonry. Many Jews are freemasons, too. I wonder what ways such a powerful, overt system of organized Jewry can synergize and compound its influence once working even more behind-the-scenes via freemasonic networks (especially after a century or longer).