Forensic Chemistry

[Nessie]

1) JC Pressac, Technique and Operation of the Gas Chamber, Part 2, Chapter 8, page 429

"The first line indicates that in the basement of Krematorium II, "Raum I, Leichenkeller / Room I, corpse cellar" was fitted with:
· “16 Lamp o. Kug, u. Tel. Feuchtsicher / 16 lamps other than globes, waterproof” and
· “5 Zapfhühne / 5 taps”.
The second line shows that “Raum 2 / room 2”, idem. [Leichenkeller] was fitted with:
· “10 Lamp o. Kug. u. Tel. Feuchtsicher / 10 lamps other than globes. waterproof”
· “3 Zapfhühne / 3 taps”,
· “4 Drahtnetzeinschiebvorrichtung / 4 wire mesh introduction devices” and
· “4 Holzblenden / 4 wooden covers.”"

Krema II had the devices in "room 2".

2) Shaul Chazan:

[Greif] Did the grid column through which the gas was dropped reach all the way down to the floor?

[Chazan] Nearly to the floor. One had left a space which made it possible to clean there. One poured water out and brushed up the remaining pebbles.”

G. Greif, Wir weinten tränenlos… Augenzeugenberichte der jüdischen “Sonderkommandos” in Auschwitz, Böhlau Verlag, Cologne/Weimar/Vienna 1985, p. 237.

Filip Muller

When some room had been made behind the
door, the corpses were hosed down. This served to neutralize any gas
crystals still lying about, but mainly it was intended to clean the dead
bodies.

Muller - Auschwitz Inferno, p 117

You need to show which gas chamber they were referring to. Kremas I, IV, V and the farm house/bunker gas chambers have no record of mesh columns.

[HansHill]

1) JC Pressac, Technique and Operation of the Gas Chamber, Part 2, Chapter 8, page 429

"The first line indicates that in the basement of Krematorium II, "Raum I, Leichenkeller / Room I, corpse cellar" was fitted with:
· “16 Lamp o. Kug, u. Tel. Feuchtsicher / 16 lamps other than globes, waterproof” and
· “5 Zapfhühne / 5 taps”.
The second line shows that “Raum 2 / room 2”, idem. [Leichenkeller] was fitted with:
· “10 Lamp o. Kug. u. Tel. Feuchtsicher / 10 lamps other than globes. waterproof”
· “3 Zapfhühne / 3 taps”,
· “4 Drahtnetzeinschiebvorrichtung / 4 wire mesh introduction devices” and
· “4 Holzblenden / 4 wooden covers.”"

Krema II had the devices in "room 2".

Correct.

2) Shaul Chazan:

[Greif] Did the grid column through which the gas was dropped reach all the way down to the floor?

[Chazan] Nearly to the floor. One had left a space which made it possible to clean there. One poured water out and brushed up the remaining pebbles.”

G. Greif, Wir weinten tränenlos… Augenzeugenberichte der jüdischen “Sonderkommandos” in Auschwitz, Böhlau Verlag, Cologne/Weimar/Vienna 1985, p. 237.

Filip Muller

When some room had been made behind the
door, the corpses were hosed down. This served to neutralize any gas
crystals still lying about, but mainly it was intended to clean the dead
bodies.

Muller - Auschwitz Inferno, p 117

You need to show which gas chamber they were referring to. Kremas I, IV, V and the farm house/bunker gas chambers have no record of mesh columns.

Chazan mentions "columns" which could not be Krema I, IV or V.

Muller is also definitely not talking about Krema I, or IV or V because in the sentence immediately prior he mentions taking the lift to go upstairs. Neither Krema I, IV or V had lifts

[Nessie]

...

"The first line indicates that in the basement of Krematorium II, "Raum I, Leichenkeller / Room I, corpse cellar" was fitted with:
· “16 Lamp o. Kug, u. Tel. Feuchtsicher / 16 lamps other than globes, waterproof” and
· “5 Zapfhühne / 5 taps”.
The second line shows that “Raum 2 / room 2”, idem. [Leichenkeller] was fitted with:
· “10 Lamp o. Kug. u. Tel. Feuchtsicher / 10 lamps other than globes. waterproof”
· “3 Zapfhühne / 3 taps”,
· “4 Drahtnetzeinschiebvorrichtung / 4 wire mesh introduction devices” and
· “4 Holzblenden / 4 wooden covers.”"

Krema II had the devices in "room 2".

Correct.

You said "The item Nessie is referring to, is not listed on the inventory sheet for the "gas chamber". Rather it is listed against a different location, with a very different, very innocuous, very mundane purpose (the undressing room)." How do you know room 2 was the undressing room? Room 2 also has the 4 wooden covers, and we see wooden covers on the roof of Krema II in the little train photo. Either way, it is part of the evidence for the Kula columns.

...
You need to show which gas chamber they were referring to. Kremas I, IV, V and the farm house/bunker gas chambers have no record of mesh columns.

Chazan mentions "columns" which could not be Krema I, IV or V.

If he mentions columns, how is he evidence there were no Kula columns?

Muller is also definitely not talking about Krema I, or IV or V because in the sentence immediately prior he mentions taking the lift to go upstairs. Neither Krema I, IV or V had lifts

Mueller worked in various Kremas. How do you know, with his book being published in 1979, that he is not just mis-remembering? How do you know that the devices worked perfectly and that the odd pellet would not fall out?

[HansHill]

Muppet

You said "The item Nessie is referring to, is not listed on the inventory sheet for the "gas chamber". Rather it is listed against a different location, with a very different, very innocuous, very mundane purpose (the undressing room)." How do you know room 2 was the undressing room? Room 2 also has the 4 wooden covers, and we see wooden covers on the roof of Krema II in the little train photo. Either way, it is part of the evidence for the Kula columns.

Pressac's own labels indicate the rooms 1 and 2, moron. Here is the plan (main insert) from Pressac, including his labelling. The room labelled "b" is the undressing room which contains your mesh filters. The room labelled "a", which is perpendicular to "b", is the gas chamber.



room a = morgue 1 = "gas chamber"
room b = morgue 2 = "undressing room"

You have mesh filters in the wrong room. Muppet.

This is not a Kula Column.

If he mentions columns, how is he evidence there were no Kula columns?

Muppet. A Kula Column is designed to keep the pellets i) secure, ii) retained, and iii) retrievable. He is not describing a Kula column, since the pellets pour out the bottom to be swept up. This is procedural evidence against the existence of Kula Columns. Moron.

Mueller worked in various Kremas. How do you know, with his book being published in 1979, that he is not just mis-remembering? How do you know that the devices worked perfectly and that the odd pellet would not fall out?

"please disregard my witness's material mistakes and adhere to interpreting his mistakes the way I need!"

Cope.

[Nessie]

Muppet

You said "The item Nessie is referring to, is not listed on the inventory sheet for the "gas chamber". Rather it is listed against a different location, with a very different, very innocuous, very mundane purpose (the undressing room)." How do you know room 2 was the undressing room? Room 2 also has the 4 wooden covers, and we see wooden covers on the roof of Krema II in the little train photo. Either way, it is part of the evidence for the Kula columns.

Pressac's own labels indicate the rooms 1 and 2, moron. Here is the plan (main insert) from Pressac, including his labelling. The room labelled "b" is the undressing room which contains your mesh filters. The room labelled "a", which is perpendicular to "b", is the gas chamber.



room a = morgue 1 = "gas chamber"
room b = morgue 2 = "undressing room"

You have mesh filters in the wrong room. Muppet.

This is not a Kula Column.

It is not as clear as you suggest that room a, is the gas chamber. There is evidence from witnesses of columns in the gas chamber.

If he mentions columns, how is he evidence there were no Kula columns?

Muppet. A Kula Column is designed to keep the pellets i) secure, ii) retained, and iii) retrievable. He is not describing a Kula column, since the pellets pour out the bottom to be swept up. This is procedural evidence against the existence of Kula Columns. Moron.

He mentions columns, which is evidence of columns. That he also swept up pellets is not evidence against columns. You are so desperate to discount the evidence of columns that you are resorting to abuse!

Mueller worked in various Kremas. How do you know, with his book being published in 1979, that he is not just mis-remembering? How do you know that the devices worked perfectly and that the odd pellet would not fall out?

"please disregard my witness's material mistakes and adhere to interpreting his mistakes the way I need!"

Cope.

No, it is how witnesses are, which you refuse to accept. There has been a lot of study into memory and recall, that you ignore. Those studies prove that all of the eyewitnesses will make mistakes, get mixed up, be poor at making estimations and describing things. Your cope, is to discount all the studies and with no evidence to support you, claim that none of the witnesses can be believed.

[HansHill]

It is not as clear as you suggest that room a, is the gas chamber. There is evidence from witnesses of columns in the gas chamber.

It's only unclear to you, as you continue to cope. Go read Pressac and come back when you understand this document and stop embarrassing yourself. I gave you the chapter reference, and even the page number, you have no excuses to be this uninformed.

He mentions columns, which is evidence of columns. That he also swept up pellets is not evidence against columns. You are so desperate to discount the evidence of columns that you are resorting to abuse!

Sweeping up the pellets is evidence against a retaining & retrieval mechanism, which is what the Kula Column was intended to be. The people who were there describe a process that will not work, face it.

No, it is how witnesses are, which you refuse to accept. There has been a lot of study into memory and recall, that you ignore. Those studies prove that all of the eyewitnesses will make mistakes, get mixed up, be poor at making estimations and describing things. Your cope, is to discount all the studies and with no evidence to support you, claim that none of the witnesses can be believed.

Did you forget that these things don't exist, so you are relying exclusively on descriptions. Descriptions that describe the wrong thing, wrong process, and wrong outcome.

[Nessie]

It is not as clear as you suggest that room a, is the gas chamber. There is evidence from witnesses of columns in the gas chamber.

It's only unclear to you, as you continue to cope. Go read Pressac and come back when you understand this document and stop embarrassing yourself. I gave you the chapter reference, and even the page number, you have no excuses to be this uninformed.

https://phdn.org/archives/holocaust-his ... 0430.shtml

"Thus, Leichenkeller 1 of Krematorium II, named in fact in a letter of 29th January 1943 as “Vergasungskeller / gassing cellar” and fitted with a “Gasdichtetür / gas-tight door” [PMO, BW 30/43, page 34], has 4 wire mesh introduction devices, closed by wooden covers [or flaps]."

The document evidences wire mesh devices were used to introduce Zyklon B to the gas chamber, as described by various eyewitnesses.

He mentions columns, which is evidence of columns. That he also swept up pellets is not evidence against columns. You are so desperate to discount the evidence of columns that you are resorting to abuse!

Sweeping up the pellets is evidence against a retaining & retrieval mechanism, which is what the Kula Column was intended to be. The people who were there describe a process that will not work, face it.

There are various explanations as to why he describes sweeping up pellets, including the column did not always keep the pellets inside it, to he was referring to a gas chamber that did not use the columns.

No, it is how witnesses are, which you refuse to accept. There has been a lot of study into memory and recall, that you ignore. Those studies prove that all of the eyewitnesses will make mistakes, get mixed up, be poor at making estimations and describing things. Your cope, is to discount all the studies and with no evidence to support you, claim that none of the witnesses can be believed.

Did you forget that these things don't exist, so you are relying exclusively on descriptions. Descriptions that describe the wrong thing, wrong process, and wrong outcome.

You seek excuses to dismiss evidence and here, you are scraping the bottom of the barrel. There is documentary and eyewitness corroborating evidence of wire mesh columns used to introduce Zyklon B. They were not used in some of the gas chambers. That the descriptions and simple reference do not align perfectly, is to be expected.

[HansHill]

.

Did you read your own link?

[Nessie]

.

Did you read your own link?

Pressac makes it clear that the mesh introduction device, was in the gas chamber;

""Thus, Leichenkeller 1 of Krematorium II, named in fact in a letter of 29th January 1943 as “Vergasungskeller / gassing cellar” and fitted with a “Gasdichtetür / gas-tight door” [PMO, BW 30/43, page 34], has 4 wire mesh introduction devices, closed by wooden covers [or flaps]."

[HansHill]

Amazing. Nessie - go back one page and read what the document actually says.

I'll wait right here for you to figure it out.

[Nessie]

Amazing. Nessie - go back one page and read what the document actually says.

I'll wait right here for you to figure it out.

Bear in mind that when you posted "JC Pressac, Technique and Operation of the Gas Chamber, Part 2, Chapter 8, page 429" the image below is not readable for me. Here is a link,

https://phdn.org/archives/holocaust-his ... 0429.shtml

Quote where that page proves, "4 wire mesh introduction devices" were in the undressing room of Krema II. Go forward to page 430 and Pressac makes it clear, as I already quoted, that he places them in the gas chamber.

[HansHill]

Bear in mind that when you posted "JC Pressac, Technique and Operation of the Gas Chamber, Part 2, Chapter 8, page 429" the image below is not readable for me. Here is a link,

https://phdn.org/archives/holocaust-his ... 0429.shtml

Quote where that page proves, "4 wire mesh introduction devices" were in the undressing room of Krema II. Go forward to page 430 and Pressac makes it clear, as I already quoted, that he places them in the gas chamber.

Emphasis mine. Perfect thank you Nessie, it took you one full day but you finally get it.

Just so everyone is clear: the items that Nessie claims are murder weapons, are itemized in the inventory for the undressing room, not the gas chamber. JC Pressac acknowledges this and creates a contrivance to move them into the "gas chamber" where he needs them to be.

The document is clear, the items were itemized in the undressing room.

When I wrote this yesterday you clearly didn't understand it:

"This means before going anywhere else, our good friend Nessie here is asking us to purposely and dishonestly misinterpret the document as written, and apply an interpretation contrived to suit his own needs. Very dishonest, very manipulative, very pathetic."

I know you didn't, because you then agreed with me that:

Krema II had the devices in "room 2".

Without understanding what you were saying. You then further muddle yourself up by saying you can't access the material i sent you yesterday from Pressac explaining all this, and hence you continued to argue in the dark despite being misinformed about everything you were pratling on about.

[Nessie]

Bear in mind that when you posted "JC Pressac, Technique and Operation of the Gas Chamber, Part 2, Chapter 8, page 429" the image below is not readable for me. Here is a link,

https://phdn.org/archives/holocaust-his ... 0429.shtml

Quote where that page proves, "4 wire mesh introduction devices" were in the undressing room of Krema II. Go forward to page 430 and Pressac makes it clear, as I already quoted, that he places them in the gas chamber.

Emphasis mine. Perfect thank you Nessie, it took you one full day but you finally get it.

Just so everyone is clear: the items that Nessie claims are murder weapons, are itemized in the inventory for the undressing room, not the gas chamber. JC Pressac acknowledges this and creates a contrivance to move them into the "gas chamber" where he needs them to be.

The document is clear, the items were itemized in the undressing room.

When I wrote this yesterday you clearly didn't understand it:

"This means before going anywhere else, our good friend Nessie here is asking us to purposely and dishonestly misinterpret the document as written, and apply an interpretation contrived to suit his own needs. Very dishonest, very manipulative, very pathetic."

I know you didn't, because you then agreed with me that:

Krema II had the devices in "room 2".

Without understanding what you were saying. You then further muddle yourself up by saying you can't access the material i sent you yesterday from Pressac explaining all this, and hence you continued to argue in the dark despite being misinformed about everything you were pratling on about.

Again, please quote where, on page 429, it states that "4 wire mesh introduction devices" were in the undressing room of Krema II. You said "Here is the plan (main insert) from Pressac, including his labelling. The room labelled "b" is the undressing room which contains your mesh filters. The room labelled "a", which is perpendicular to "b", is the gas chamber."

I cannot see your images, so try again with the plan from Pressac, where is it?

[HansHill]

Pressac is clear - the document lists the inventory items for "room 2" - the undressing room. Pressac then compels us to believe the document is wrong and the locations must be switched.

For anybody who's government lets them see images on the internet, I rest my case with these two images

1) the inventory sheet as written in its original, clearly appearing on line 2, room 2 - the undressing room.



2) The contrivances that Pressac makes to move the mesh devices onto a separate line item for "room 1" the gas chamber



Therefore the very document he needs us to accept, is wrong by his own standards, and the mesh devices are itemized in a separate location. I can't make this any simpler for this foolish person. If someone else wishes to explain this again, then please be my guest!

[Nessie]

Pressac is clear - the document lists the inventory items for "room 2" - the undressing room. Pressac then compels us to believe the document is wrong and the locations must be switched.

For anybody who's government lets them see images on the internet, I rest my case with these two images

1) the inventory sheet as written in its original, clearly appearing on line 2, room 2 - the undressing room.



2) The contrivances that Pressac makes to move the mesh devices onto a separate line item for "room 1" the gas chamber



Therefore the very document he needs us to accept, is wrong by his own standards, and the mesh devices are itemized in a separate location. I can't make this any simpler for this foolish person. If someone else wishes to explain this again, then please be my guest!

It is nothing to do with the UK government, why I cannot see imgur images. Please link, or direct me, to the images in Pressac's book;

https://phdn.org/archives/holocaust-his ... 0011.shtml

Again, Pressace makes it clear the devices were in the gas chambers on page 430.