The Kola Study - An Own Goal by Team Holocaust

[Nessie]

How hard can it be to prove that "enormous" mass graves are real and actually do contain human remains?

That has been done. So-called revisionists just refuse to accept that. They are akin to flat earthers, who, despite the evidence, refuse to believe the earth is round.

A - $100.00 reward - is being offered for each one of the 33 alleged graves / cremation pits in question that is proven - with the same standard of proof applied in U. S. civil courts - to actually exist and to currently contain the remains of - at least 2 people.

http://thisisaboutscience.com/

What is Nessie waiting for?

What is he so afraid of?

He's terrified that Mr. Gerdes will destroy him in a debate.

So he continues to run away like a scared little girl!

No, it is because I refuse to bow to your abuse and your refusal to answer my questions.

[DavidM]

een done. So-called revisionists just refuse to accept that. They are akin to flat earthers, who, despite the evidence, refuse to believe the earth is round.

Hello Nessie,
I read The Holocaust by Bullets: A Priest's Journey to Uncover the Truth Behind the Murder of 1.5 Million Jews
by Father Patrick Desbois. I found it pathetically short of any real evidence of mass graves of murder victims. One or two corroded bullets were enough for the good priest.
The Believer narrative has struggled with its tale of many many sites of mass murders and
the lack of any mass graves. Of course, no mass graves have ever been found at
Treblinka, Majdanek or Auschwitz.
But are you claiming that mass graves have been found elsewhere?

[borjastick]

een done. So-called revisionists just refuse to accept that. They are akin to flat earthers, who, despite the evidence, refuse to believe the earth is round.

Hello Nessie,
I read The Holocaust by Bullets: A Priest's Journey to Uncover the Truth Behind the Murder of 1.5 Million Jews
by Father Patrick Desbois. I found it pathetically short of any real evidence of mass graves of murder victims. One or two corroded bullets were enough for the good priest.
The Believer narrative has struggled with its tale of many many sites of mass murders and
the lack of any mass graves. Of course, no mass graves have ever been found at
Treblinka, Majdanek or Auschwitz.
But are you claiming that mass graves have been found elsewhere?

I have no doubt Father Desbois was a decent man who was motivated by his faith and a desire for humanity to deal with its darkest moments. But he was very naive and trusting of lots of locals who pointed up the road or stood in a wooded location and made claims about shootings and jews disappearing, but he never did hard research or excavations or asked for serious evidence.

[TlsMS93]

For scientific research to be taken seriously, it must be peer-reviewed. This didn't happen at Belzec because of Jewish ethics regarding the treatment of human remains. So are his results definitive and enlightening? This is worse than suggesting that the structures at Auschwitz be destroyed so that only the testimonial narrative could serve as a historiographical guide. They couldn't make the structures inaccessible because there were no bodies inside, so they couldn't prevent the Prussian Blue tests.

[Nessie]

een done. So-called revisionists just refuse to accept that. They are akin to flat earthers, who, despite the evidence, refuse to believe the earth is round.

Hello Nessie,
I read The Holocaust by Bullets: A Priest's Journey to Uncover the Truth Behind the Murder of 1.5 Million Jews
by Father Patrick Desbois. I found it pathetically short of any real evidence of mass graves of murder victims. One or two corroded bullets were enough for the good priest.
The Believer narrative has struggled with its tale of many many sites of mass murders and
the lack of any mass graves. Of course, no mass graves have ever been found at
Treblinka, Majdanek or Auschwitz.
But are you claiming that mass graves have been found elsewhere?

Yes, for example, at Ponary and Rumbula. The evidence for such mas graves, comes from multiple eyewitnesses, physical finds such as bullet shells, the circumstantial evidence of the arrests and disappearance of local Jews, the Nazi motive to kill Jews as an enemy and documentary reports of mass shootings.

That you find such evidence pathetically short, just means you have decided to not believe mass shootings, in the early part of the Holocaust took place. They are well evidenced, so much so, that many so-called revisionists accept they took place, but refuse to accept mass gassings happen.

Mass graves have been found at TII. I am not sure about Majdanek and the cremains at A-B were mainly dumped in the local rivers, rather than buried. Mass graves for corpses were never dug at the camp, because of the cremations.

You have fallen for the so-called revisionist lie that there is a lack of evidence for mass killings and graves. That lei is spread to deflect from the lack of evidence to revise the history of what happened, proving millions of Jews, arrested by the Nazis and their allies, survived the war.

[Nessie]

...
I have no doubt Father Desbois was a decent man who was motivated by his faith and a desire for humanity to deal with its darkest moments. But he was very naive and trusting of lots of locals who pointed up the road or stood in a wooded location and made claims about shootings and jews disappearing, but he never did hard research or excavations or asked for serious evidence.

In typical so-called revisionist style, with no training or experience of gathering evidence yourself, so your critique of others is mere inexperienced opinion, you have, not surprisingly, misrepresented the work of Desbois.

https://www.memorialdelashoah.org/uploa ... esbois.htm

"Archival Research:

The archive reserves of German tribunals and Soviet commissions have revealed initial information regarding the massacres committed by the Nazis in the Soviet Union, and notably in Ukraine between 1941 and 1944. Yahad’s team has been able to discover the exact missions given to German troops concerning the treatment of Jews, and the localization of certain massacre sites. It has provided them with a base on which to start work at ground level.

Visiting the sites and recording witness accounts:

Father Desbois and a team of experts regularly travel across the regions of Ukraine, intent on identifying witnesses of the genocide still alive today. At the time of events, these witnesses were curious children or adolescents who either followed the columns of Jews heading towards execution sites or observed the executions while hidden. Others were amongst those requisitioned by the Germans, in complicity with local authorities, to take part in digging or recovering the pits, and transporting victims or materials. They all testify, often for the first time, after sixty years of silence.

Three concordant testimonies recorded independently have led Yahad – In Unum to discover the localization of execution sites not known of until today.

Identifying mass Jewish graves and collecting ballistic proof:

On indications given by witnesses, the site of the grave is located, and its GPS position noted. The German cartridge cases are dated, and all other ballistic proof is gathered before the grave is camouflaged, to prevent tomb raiders profaning the site.

The presence of these German cartridge cases around the communal graves is determining evidence that executions were perpetrated by mobile Nazi units. Along with such evidence, the team picks up several personal objects belonging to the victims: glasses, children’s games, or jewelry which escaped the killers’ avarice. Five hundred execution sites have already been identified."

That is how any trained investigator would go about determining if mass graves exist and their location. The only work not done, has been to dig into the graves, which would require permissions, need experienced people to excavate and cost of a lot of money.

[Nessie]

For scientific research to be taken seriously, it must be peer-reviewed.

No so-called revisionist has submitted their work for peer review. Their claims have been examined by experts, and found to be severely wanting. No so-called revisionist has any archaeological or forensic experience, so that they are capable of peer reviewing the work of people such as Kola.

[Nazgul]

No so-called revisionist has submitted their work for peer review. Their claims have been examined by experts, and found to be severely wanting. No so-called revisionist has any archaeological or forensic experience, so that they are capable of peer reviewing the work of people such as Kola.

You fail to understand peer review. Peer review of holocaust revisionist literature is illegal in much of europe. You have no idea of the qualifications of people here or elsewhere, but make assumptions while found wanting on your own educational and enforcement claims. Constantly berating opponents with unfounded claims will be seen as trolling by the admins here and they will act accordingly.

A person with knowledge may disagree with say a chemical equation given, or find entropy changes miscalculated. We would examine that and say hey that person is correct and our thoughts would have to change; Rudolf would have to respond or someone with equal stature. If we are talking about gassing we also talking about bio-chemistry so highly specialized it is hard to get ones head around. Thalidomide issues of the past were a result of lack of knowledge in this field, the interaction of molecular structure with DNA and other processes.

We can discuss this here but not with your stupid comments. If we are comparing and constrasting chemical and bio chemical reactions, we will do the research on it and give opinion with the reasons.
Saponification of bodies are a result of natural decay. There are many reports of dead arriving by train who had to be disposed of. There is no way now to distinguish the cause of death from murder or natural causes say from the Corfu victims.

[Nessie]

No so-called revisionist has submitted their work for peer review. Their claims have been examined by experts, and found to be severely wanting. No so-called revisionist has any archaeological or forensic experience, so that they are capable of peer reviewing the work of people such as Kola.

You fail to understand peer review. Peer review of holocaust revisionist literature is illegal in much of europe.

Show me a law that makes peer review illegal. Historians and chemists have reviewed so-called revisionist literature, without being prosecuted for any crime.

You have no idea of the qualifications of people here or elsewhere, but make assumptions while found wanting on your own educational and enforcement claims. Constantly berating opponents with unfounded claims will be seen as trolling by the admins here and they will act accordingly.

I am correctly pointing out flaws in so-called revisionist methodology. I know that is hated here and it can attract censorship, as certain people want to continue to use flawed investigatory methods unchallenged.

The "Kola Study" is not an own goal. It evidences huge areas of buried cremated and decomposed human remains, in the area of Belzec, that those who worked at the camp, state mass graves were located. But, that work, on its own, does not prove what happened inside Belzec. The Leuchter, Luftl and Rudolf reports, on their own, do not evidence what happened inside the Kremas.

[Nazgul]

It evidences huge areas of buried cremated and decomposed human remains, in the area of Belzec, that those who worked at the camp, state mass graves were located. But, that work, on its own, does not prove what happened inside Belzec. The Leuchter, Luftl and Rudolf reports, on their own, do not evidence what happened inside the Kremas.

Without hard evidence people like act on a belief, failing to understand the full history behind the scenario such as Corfu Jews arriving dead by train.

[Nessie]

It evidences huge areas of buried cremated and decomposed human remains, in the area of Belzec, that those who worked at the camp, state mass graves were located. But, that work, on its own, does not prove what happened inside Belzec. The Leuchter, Luftl and Rudolf reports, on their own, do not evidence what happened inside the Kremas.

Without hard evidence people like act on a belief, failing to understand the full history behind the scenario such as Corfu Jews arriving dead by train.

Exactly, the archaeological evidence cannot tell us things like who is buried there, what they died from, or even how many are there. That is because the Nazis did a good job with their cover-up, destroying evidence such that a number of questions cannot be answered. However, the destruction of evidence is, in itself, evidence of criminality.

[Nazgul]

That is because the Nazis did a good job with their cover-up, destroying evidence such that a number of questions cannot be answered. However, the destruction of evidence is, in itself, evidence of criminality.

This is a mere assumption that there was a cover up due to you thinking you know the answers. Perhaps one should start looking for other causes for the bodies first before the rash jump to such conclusions that go no where, except around in eternal circles of did, didn't. We have tried but the true believers can't do that discounting any disconfirming evidence. It is possible there is no evidence and its destruction, your belief of evidence could well be a hypothetical construct with no validity.

[Nessie]

That is because the Nazis did a good job with their cover-up, destroying evidence such that a number of questions cannot be answered. However, the destruction of evidence is, in itself, evidence of criminality.

This is a mere assumption that there was a cover up due to you thinking you know the answers.

No it is an evidenced fact. The Nazis did dig up mass graves and cremate the corpses. At the AR camps they planted over where corpses had been buried, demolished most of the camp's buildings and left the sites guarded.

Perhaps one should start looking for other causes for the bodies first before the rash jump to such conclusions that go no where, except around in eternal circles of did, didn't.

I have looked for evidence and found that some of the corpse are from people who died on the way to the camps, or they were executed or euthanised. The majority were gassed on arrival.

We have tried but the true believers can't do that discounting any disconfirming evidence. It is possible there is no evidence and its destruction, your belief of evidence could well be a hypothetical construct with no validity.

You have the unevidenced belief that the transports dropped most people off enroute, and that something other than gassings took place inside the ARR camps. I can evidence my claims.

[HansHill]

evidenced fact.

[Nessie]

evidenced fact.

Every person who worked at the AR camps, in 1943, agrees mass graves were exhumed and the corpses cremated. Witnesses from outside the camps reported months of burning and a stench. Aerial photos from 1943, show large areas of disturbed ground. Archaeologists have found large areas of buried cremated remains.

You have zero evidence that only small areas of the camp were excavated and only those executed, or who died from natural causes, were buried there and no explanation as to why they would be exhumed and cremated.