[Split from viewtopic.php?t=518]
Interesting that Himmler considered the report quite good as "as material for possible later times, namely for camouflage purposes". Makes one wonder what exactly Himmler wanted to camouflage here.
https://holocausthistory.site/1943-04-0 ... rr-report/
Korherr - meaning of "for camouflage purposes" (NO-5197)
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Callafangers
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Re: Implications of Korherr's arithmetic (check my math)
One might wonder... but Germany had plenty needing camoflauge/disguise regarding Jews, whichever side of this debate one falls on: total dispossession, forced labor, rampant typhus and mass deaths, partisan disruptions, etc. -- none of which are described or detailed in Korherr's report, which is dry and bureacratic. It also isn't clear whether Himmler's "for later use" refers to after the war or sometime sooner. But the efficiency highlighted in the report and its overall 'dryness' supports it as a way to conceal or distract from considerable failures in Jewish policy, possibly useful in negotiations and the like later on.Hans wrote: ↑Sun Sep 14, 2025 9:37 am Interesting that Himmler considered the report quite good as "as material for possible later times, namely for camouflage purposes". Makes one wonder what exactly Himmler wanted to camouflage here.
https://holocausthistory.site/1943-04-0 ... rr-report/
...he cries out in pain and proceeds to AI-slop-spam and 'pilpul' you...
Re: Korherr - meaning of "for camouflage purposes"
Splitting this off since Hans was using this as a deflection tactic but it still seems worth discussing.
Before getting into revisionist counterarguments, I think we should spell out what the argument is that we would be responding to. Notice here that Hans doesn't offer an argument. He just says it's "interesting" and asks what Himmler wanted to camouflage but does not answer the question. This is their usual proof by insinuation which I have discussed previously.
viewtopic.php?t=340
It's argument by vague free association. Camouflage -> something to hide -> something bad -> Holocaust bad.
1) How might the report be useful in covering up the extermination program?
2) WHO exactly is Himmler hoping to mislead here?
3) If it's good for concealment purposes, then why does Himmler not want it to be distributed? And why does he want to save the report "for possible later times"?
In my mind, the whole idea of keeping the extermination of six million Jews a secret seems rather absurd. If people outside Germany suspect such a thing is happening, they are not going to be convinced to the contrary by statistics coming from the alleged perpetrators. For the German public, I do not see what propaganda purpose a statistical report would serve since few people would have the interest or competence to understand it (only in the general impression that the Jewish question was being handled). For people within the German government, I would assume many would know about the exterminations. And if you didn't want some of them to know, why tell them anything?
It is hard to say with full confidence what Himmler is talking about since we do not have full context. But it seems to me that the main purpose of the report is to show that there had been progress on the Jewish question and to attempt to measure this quantitatively. The desire would be to show that this was going well. But there was surely a big gap between the picture Himmler wanted to present and the reality.
Butz notes that "Eichmann testified that after the Stalingrad disaster (January 1943) the German government quickened the pace of the deportations 'for camouflage reasons.'" Similar language and probably a similar meaning.
Before getting into revisionist counterarguments, I think we should spell out what the argument is that we would be responding to. Notice here that Hans doesn't offer an argument. He just says it's "interesting" and asks what Himmler wanted to camouflage but does not answer the question. This is their usual proof by insinuation which I have discussed previously.
viewtopic.php?t=340
It's argument by vague free association. Camouflage -> something to hide -> something bad -> Holocaust bad.
The proposal is that the thing being camouflaged is the mass extermination program. But some questions naturally arise here.I have received the statistical report of the Inspector for Statistics on the Final Solution of the Jewish Question.
I consider this report as material for possible later times, namely for camouflage purposes, to be quite good. At the moment it must neither be published nor passed on.
What remains most important to me is that Jews are now being shipped off to the East as much as is at all humanly possible. In the brief monthly reports of the Security Police, I merely want to be informed of what has been shipped off each month and what Jews still remained at that time.
1) How might the report be useful in covering up the extermination program?
2) WHO exactly is Himmler hoping to mislead here?
3) If it's good for concealment purposes, then why does Himmler not want it to be distributed? And why does he want to save the report "for possible later times"?
In my mind, the whole idea of keeping the extermination of six million Jews a secret seems rather absurd. If people outside Germany suspect such a thing is happening, they are not going to be convinced to the contrary by statistics coming from the alleged perpetrators. For the German public, I do not see what propaganda purpose a statistical report would serve since few people would have the interest or competence to understand it (only in the general impression that the Jewish question was being handled). For people within the German government, I would assume many would know about the exterminations. And if you didn't want some of them to know, why tell them anything?
It is hard to say with full confidence what Himmler is talking about since we do not have full context. But it seems to me that the main purpose of the report is to show that there had been progress on the Jewish question and to attempt to measure this quantitatively. The desire would be to show that this was going well. But there was surely a big gap between the picture Himmler wanted to present and the reality.
Butz notes that "Eichmann testified that after the Stalingrad disaster (January 1943) the German government quickened the pace of the deportations 'for camouflage reasons.'" Similar language and probably a similar meaning.
Incredulity Enthusiast
Re: Korherr - meaning of "for camouflage purposes" (NO-5197)
Another document that they cite in relation to Korherr report is NO-5196. In this document, Brandt tells Korherr that Himmler does not want the phrase "special treatment of the Jews" to be used in the report. The suggestion is that this wording would give away too much and so it needed to be removed. Again, it is the sort of evidence that doesn't really prove anything but rather relies heavily on insinuation.
Incredulity Enthusiast