The Jews Went to Work? Organization Todt

[bombsaway]

One glaring issue I'd like to point out, and that may be getting missed, is what constituted a 'working jew', and just how many there were. 'Eastern labor' in a support capacity in the east was vast, and was composed of men, women, and children down to the age of 4.

The necessity of this labor force is undeniable. These people were manufacturing arms, repairing roads and communications as well as rail ways, they were making sure that food was prepared, they were an indispensable feature of the war effort.

The idea that 'millions of jews' were 'non working' is to me absurd. When you look at the grave space, it is woefully insufficient for the claimed toll.

Millions of Jews in fact were non-working within the ghetto system. Using labor requires investment in that labor, and investing food and resources in sick Jews, elderly, and children weren't deemed worth it.

Now you have to square why all these Jews that were deported were non working. Look at the chelmno documents https://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot ... erman.html

"contemporary German documents" section

and you can see that these were the people being moved out. If you are claiming these people were maintained in Russia, it is a non-evidenced position to claim they were put to work.

Can you show me the document thats says Jewish children at age 4 should be put to work?

There is no evidence of mass employment of Jewish children like there was for the much smaller amount of Poles that were actually resettled https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinder_KZ

If you want to see what actual resettlement looks like, you can look at this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation ... 5%9B%C4%87

yeah, movement of 116,000 Poles left WAY WAY more evidence of resettlement than millions of Jews.

[Callafangers]

The screenshot about a ZALfJ in Bialystok is quite instructive of the problems with interpreting some of the older 'directories' - the source given is ITS 1979, which is likely available on the Arolsen Archives or in their online library.

I hear you, the screenshot I provided was just a quick screen-grab I captured to highlight Nessie's misunderstanding of the formatting and proper interpretation of closure dates (or lack thereof). I had noticed it was for Bialystok, but this was beside the point.

Regarding your criticisms of the validity of that particular entry within the list, sure, there may be room for correction, but much research went into the original list which the Bialystok entry is based upon. Even if we assume your rejection of this particular item is valid, this is likely a relatively isolated instance -- we can be confident that most entries on the list will still hold, and that many others may remain undiscovered.

Here is the background of the research project which the data I provided is based upon (originally at the URL https://www.deutschland-ein-denkmal.de/), portions of particular relevance in bold:

About the Project

By Bettina Sarnes, Holger Sarnes
1996 to 2009: Origin of the Project

In 1996, in the context of developing alternative ways of commemorating and remembering, the artist Sigrid Sigurdsson realized that there was no comprehensive map listing all the sites of Nazi crimes. Furthermore, it became clear that there were immense gaps in knowledge regarding the camp and detention system. Even though many of the camps and sites of injustice were known through relevant research, little was known about the living conditions within them. Sigrid Sigurdsson then commissioned the historian Cornelia Steinhauer to create an overview map on which all the sites of injustice were to be marked. For the first time, a picture emerged that, based on the existing specialist literature, visualized the gigantic scale of the persecution and extermination.

Overview Map Sigrid Sigurdsson 1998

Sigrid Sigurdsson: Overview map with black markings of the sites of injustice. Map source: 1:1 million map of Germany within the 1937 borders. Authorized by the Federal Agency for Cartography and Geodesy - Berlin Branch, No. 327/99, dated November 8, 1999, edited by Cornelia Steinhauer.

The project also included the idea of ​​issuing a research contract, which would result in the participation of relevant scientific institutions in the project.

The Karl Ernst Osthaus Museum, under the direction of Prof. Dr. Michael Fehr, adopted this concept in 1998. Museum staff undertook the creation of a database, which was initially intended to serve only as an index for the map. The result, a map of Germany with approximately 2,000 markers and a corresponding index, was first shown and published in 1998 in Braunschweig as part of the exhibition "Braunschweig - a city in Germany remembers" and in early 1999 at the Karl Ernst Osthaus Museum in Hagen as part of the exhibition "Sigrid Sigurdsson - The Architecture of Memory / Germany - a Monument - a Research Assignment."[1] However, the need for comprehensive revision and expansion soon became apparent. The possibility of making the project accessible to a wider public via online publication, as well as the technical possibilities of dynamic image generation, seemed suitable for conveying the character of the "Open Archives" established by Sigrid Sigurdsson in other contexts, in a new medium.[2] And so, a historical map of Germany along the borders of 1941 was scanned and divided into detailed maps. In conjunction with a newly designed database, a comprehensive map series was created that depicts the individual sites of persecution in detail and, using overview maps, provides various overviews of the complexity of the camp system. Under the title "Germany - a Memorial - a Research Mission. 1996 to...", the project has been freely accessible to the public since 2000, both in various exhibitions and online. Since then, it has drawn attention to the many forced labor camps in which prisoners were forced to perform slave labor under concentration camp-like conditions. References to relevant research literature enable a closer look at each site. Furthermore, the project highlights that—in contrast to concentration and extermination camps—some types of camps have fallen from the focus of public memory.
Further Development since 2009

The database, in its version published until 2009, was based primarily on the complete directory of "Places of Imprisonment under the Reichsführer-SS (1933-1945)" published by the International Tracing Service (ITS) in Arolsen.[3] The "Directory of Concentration Camps and Their External Commands,"[4] compiled with the assistance of the ITS and published by the Federal Minister of Justice to facilitate the burden of proof in applications for compensation for imprisonment under the Federal Compensation Act of 1977 and 1982, was also incorporated into the database. In addition, recent research literature was also taken into account in many cases. For example, many monographs on concentration camps and their satellite camps, publications on sub-areas of the camp system, and on individual countries or locations were consulted.

In 2009, the presentation was revised again. This included the introduction of an English-language version and the conversion of all place names in Eastern Europe to diacritical marks, which greatly improved search options for foreign visitors to the site. Furthermore, the database's content was further expanded: Since the project began in 1996, researchers have been intensively engaged in the study of the camp system. Given the wealth of literature published recently, a selection had to be made and the related sources limited to a few titles. Thus, the nine-volume series "The Place of Terror: History of the National Socialist Concentration Camps[5]," edited by Wolfgang Benz and Barbara Distel, provides a comprehensive overview of the National Socialist camp system, closing many of the existing gaps in our knowledge. The database's location entries refer to the respective volumes of this worthy series.

Since the reopening of the Osthaus Museum Hagen in 2009, the work has been integrated into the "Architecture of Remembrance" room designed by Sigrid Sigurdsson at the Osthaus Museum Hagen. It is linked in content and form to the academic reference libraries on the topics of "National Socialism" and "Memory and Remembrance" developed by Dr. Martina Pottek and Dr. Nils Reschke.

The project has been continued since summer 2011 by long-time collaborators Bettina and Holger Sarnes. Over time, it has developed into a reference source for the investigation of the Nazi camp system. As evidenced by the numerous inquiries, tips, and corrections the project has received since its inception, the database and map series are still actively used today by private individuals, in political education work, and by relevant academic institutions. Both the data compiled for the first time in a condensed form in the database and the visualization of the development of the camp system based on maps continue to represent a unique source – as demonstrated not least by the fact that the database has been used by the Federal Ministry of the Interior since 2007 as a tool for determining compensation payments to former victims of the Third Reich. Furthermore, the work has been on display in the permanent exhibition "Documentation Obersalzberg. A Permanent Exhibition of the Institute for Contemporary History, Munich – Berlin" in Berchtesgaden since October 1999.

Constantly supplemented and expanded in content, the work has been available online again since February 2012. The expansion of the online version, the further translation, revision, and indexing of the data, following the process initiated by Sigrid Sigurdsson, is a work in progress and is subject to constant change.


[1] Michael Fehr (Hg.):Sigrid Sigurdsson. Deutschland - ein Denkmal - ein Forschungsauftrag 1996 - 1998, Hagen 1998.

[2] Grundlegend zum Œuvre Sigrid Sigurdssons siehe Martina Pottek:Kunst als Medium der Erinnerung. Das Konzept der Offenen Archive im Werk von Sigrid Sigurdsson, Weimar 2007.

[3] International Tracing Service: Verzeichnis der Haftstätten unter dem Reichsführer-SS (1933-1945). Konzentrationslager und deren Außenkommandos sowie andere Haftstätten unter dem Reichsführer-SS in Deutschland und deutsch besetzten Gebieten, Arolsen 1979.

[4] Verzeichnis der Konzentrationslager und ihrer Außenkommandos gemäß § 42 Abs. 2 BEG, in: Bundesgesetzblatt I (1977), S. 1786-1852; Änderung und Ergänzung des Verzeichnisses der Konzentrationslager und ihrer Außenkommandos gemäß § 42 Abs. 2 BEG, in: Bundesgesetzblatt I (1982), S. 1571-1579.

[5] Wolfgang Benz, Barbara Distel (Hg.):Der Ort des Terrors. Geschichte der nationalsozialistischen Konzentrationslager. 9 Bände. München 2005-2009.

Also, the database has "ITS 1979" as a default reference -- even if other references were used, you still consistently see "ITS 1979" as a general placeholder.

Here is the database's complete list of Literature references:

Literaturreferenz

Aly, Götz (Hg.): Aktion T4 1939 bis 1945. Die "Euthanasie"-Zentrale in der Tiergartenstraße 4, Berlin 1989.
Arad, Yitzhak: Belzec, Sobibor, Treblinka. The Operation Reinhard Death Camps, Bloomington and Indianapolis 1987.
Awtuszewska-Ettrich, Angelina: "Płaszów - Stammlager", in: Wolfgang Benz, Barbara Distel (Hg.): Der Ort des Terrors. Geschichte der nationalsozialistischen Konzentrationslager, Bd. 8, München 2008, S. 235-287.
Bader, Uwe: "Sonderlager 'Feste Goeben' in Metz", in: Wolfgang Benz, Barbara Distel (Hg.): Der Ort des Terrors. Geschichte der nationalsozialistischen Konzentrationslager, Bd. 9, München 2009, S. 534-547.
Bader, Uwe/Welter, Beate: "Das SS-Sonderlager/KZ Hinzert", in: Wolfgang Benz, Barbara Distel (Hg.): Der Ort des Terrors. Geschichte der nationalsozialistischen Konzentrationslager, Bd. 5, München 2007, S. 17-42.
Baganz, Carina: "Lager für ausländische zivile Zwangsarbeiter", in: Wolfgang Benz, Barbara Distel (Hg.): Der Ort des Terrors. Geschichte der nationalsozialistischen Konzentrationslager, Bd. 9, München 2009, S. 248-270.
Bauche, Ulrich/Brüdigam, Heinz/Eiber, Ludwig/Wiedey, Wolfgang (Hg.): Arbeit und Vernichtung. Das Konzentrationslager Neuengamme 1938 - 1945, Katalog zur Ausstellung im Dokumentenhaus der KZ-Gedenkstätte Neuengamme, Außenstelle des Museums für Hamburgische Geschichte, Hamburg 1991.
Benz, Angelika: "Trawniki", in: Wolfgang Benz, Barbara Distel (Hg.): Der Ort des Terrors. Geschichte der nationalsozialistischen Konzentrationslager, Bd. 9, München 2009, S. 602-611.
Benz, Wolfgang: "Theresienstadt", in: Wolfgang Benz, Barbara Distel (Hg.): Der Ort des Terrors. Geschichte der nationalsozialistischen Konzentrationslager, Bd. 9, München 2009, S. 449-496.
Benz, Wolfgang: "Treblinka", in: Wolfgang Benz, Barbara Distel (Hg.): Der Ort des Terrors. Geschichte der nationalsozialistischen Konzentrationslager, Bd. 8, München 2008, S. 407-443.
Benz, Wolfgang/Bistrovic, Miriam/Curio, Claudia/Distel, Barbara/Jahn, Franziska/Königseder, Angelika/Mihok, Brigitte/Walter, Verena: "Auschwitz", in: Wolfgang Benz, Barbara Distel (Hg.): Der Ort des Terrors. Geschichte der nationalsozialistischen Konzentrationslager, Bd. 5, München 2007, S. 79-173.
Benz, Wolfgang/Distel, Barbara (Hg.): Der Ort des Terrors. Geschichte der nationalsozialistischen Konzentrationslager, Band 4, München 2006.
Benz, Wolfgang/Distel, Barbara (Hg.): Der Ort des Terrors. Geschichte der nationalsozialistischen Konzentrationslager, Band 1, München 2005.
Benz, Wolfgang/Distel, Barbara (Hg.): Der Ort des Terrors. Geschichte der nationalsozialistischen Konzentrationslager, Band 6, München 2007.
Benz, Wolfgang/Distel, Barbara (Hg.): Der Ort des Terrors. Geschichte der nationalsozialistischen Konzentrationslager, Band 9, München 2009.
Benz, Wolfgang/Distel, Barbara (Hg.): Der Ort des Terrors. Geschichte der nationalsozialistischen Konzentrationslager, Band 8, München 2008.
Benz, Wolfgang/Distel, Barbara (Hg.): Der Ort des Terrors. Geschichte der nationalsozialistischen Konzentrationslager, Band 7, München 2008.
Benz, Wolfgang/Distel, Barbara (Hg.): Der Ort des Terrors. Geschichte der nationalsozialistischen Konzentrationslager, Band 3, München 2006.
Benz, Wolfgang/Distel, Barbara (Hg.): Der Ort des Terrors. Geschichte der nationalsozialistischen Konzentrationslager, Band 2, München 2005.
Benz, Wolfgang/Distel, Barbara (Hg.): Der Ort des Terrors. Geschichte der nationalsozialistischen Konzentrationslager, Band 5, München 2007.
Benz, Wolfgang/Gramel, Hermann/Weiß, Hermann (Hg.): Enzyklopädie des Nationalsozialismus, 3. Aufl. München 1998.
Birn, Ruth Bettina: "Vaivara - Stammlager", in: Wolfgang Benz, Barbara Distel (Hg.): Der Ort des Terrors. Geschichte der nationalsozialistischen Konzentrationslager, Bd. 8, München 2008, S. 132-147.
Böckle, Bärbel: "Das Arbeits- und Krankenlager Vaihingen (Enz)", in: Herwart Vorländer (Hg.): Nationalsozialistische Konzentrationslager im Dienst der totalen Kriegsführung. Sieben württembergische Außenkommandos des Konzentrationslagers Natzweiler/Elsaß, Stuttgart 1978, S. 175-224.
Bornemann, Manfred: Chronik des Lagers Ellrich 1944/45. Ein vergessenes Konzentrationslager wird neu entdeckt, Nordhausen 1992.
Brandes, Ulrike: "Der Arbeitseinsatz in zwei Außenlagern Ravensbrücks", in: Füllberg-Stolberg u.a. (Hg.): Frauen in Konzentrationslagern. Bergen-Belsen, Ravensbrück, Bremen 1994, S. 71-72.
Brandes, Ulrike/Füllberg-Stolberg, Claus/Kempe, Sylvia: "Arbeit im KZ Ravensbrück", in: Füllberg-Stolberg u.a. (Hg.): Frauen in Konzentrationslagern. Bergen-Belsen, Ravensbrück, Bremen 1994, S. 55-69.
Brenner, Hans: "Der 'Arbeitseinsatz' in den Außenlagern des KZs Flossenbürg", in: Ulrich Herbert, Karin Orth, Christoph Dieckmann (Hg.): Die nationalsozialistischen Konzentrationslager - Entwicklung und Struktur, Bd. I, Göttingen 1998, S. 682-706.
Bundesgesetzblatt: Änderung und Ergänzung des Verzeichnisses der Konzentrationslager und ihrer Außenkommandos gemäß § 42 Abs. 2 BEG, in: Bundesgesetzblatt, Jahrgang 1982, Teil I, S. 1572-1579.
Bundesgesetzblatt: Verzeichnis der Konzentrationslager und ihrer Außenkommandos gemäß § 42 Abs. 2 BEG, in: Bundesgesetzblatt, Jahrgang 1977, Teil I, S. 1786-1852.
Burmistr, Svetlana: "Transnistrien", in: Wolfgang Benz, Barbara Distel (Hg.): Der Ort des Terrors. Geschichte der nationalsozialistischen Konzentrationslager, Bd. 9, München 2009, S. 390-416.
de Vries, Hans: "Herzogenbusch (Vught) - Stammlager" in: Wolfgang Benz, Barbara Distel (Hg.): Der Ort des Terrors. Geschichte der nationalsozialistischen Konzentrationslager, Bd. 7, München 2008, S. 133-150.
Dieckmann, Christoph: "Das Ghetto und das Konzentrationslager in Kaunas 1941-1944", in: Ulrich Herbert, Karin Orth, Christoph Dieckmann (Hg.): Die nationalsozialistischen Konzentrationslager - Entwicklung und Struktur, Bd. I, Göttingen 1998, S. 439-471.
Dieterle-Jöchle, Manfred: "Vergangenheitsbewältigung in der Provinz. Die Nachgeschichte der KZ-Außenlager von Dachau in Friedrichshafen und Überlingen", (Geschichte am See 52, Materialien zur Regionalgeschichte), Markdorf 1996.
Distel, Barbara: "Frankreich", in: Wolfgang Benz, Barbara Distel (Hg.): Der Ort des Terrors. Geschichte der nationalsozialistischen Konzentrationslager, Bd. 9, München 2009, S. 273-291.
Distel, Barbara: "Sobibór", in: Wolfgang Benz, Barbara Distel (Hg.): Der Ort des Terrors. Geschichte der nationalsozialistischen Konzentrationslager, Bd. 8, München 2008, S. 375-404.
Drobisch, Klaus: System der NS-Konzentrationslager 1933-1939, Berlin 1993.
Drobisch, Klaus: "Oranienburg - eines der ersten nationalsozialistischen Konzentrationslager", in: Günter Morsch (Hg.): Konzentrationslager Oranienburg, (Schriftenreihe der Stiftung Brandenburgische Gedenkstätten Nr.3), Berlin 1994, S. 13-22.
Drywa, Danuta: "Stutthof - Stammlager" in: Wolfgang Benz, Barbara Distel (Hg.): Der Ort des Terrors. Geschichte der nationalsozialistischen Konzentrationslager, Bd. 6, München 2007, S. 477-529.
Eiber, Ludwig: "KZ-Außenlager in München", in: Wolfgang Benz und Barbara Distel (Hg.): Konzentrationslager. Lebenswelt und Umfeld, Dachauer Hefte, Heft 12, München 1996, S. 58-80.
Endlich, Stefanie/Kaiser, Wolf: "KZ-Häftlinge in der Reichshauptstadt. Außenlager in Berlin", in: Wolfgang Benz und Barbara Distel (Hg.): Konzentrationslager: Lebenswelt und Umfeld, Dachauer Hefte, Heft 12, München 1996, S. 230-254.
Fargion, Liliana Picciotto: "Italien", in: Wolfgang Benz (Hg.): Die Dimension des Völkermords. Die Zahl der jüdischen Opfer des Nationalsozialismus, München 1996, S. 199-228.
Fiedermann, Angela/Hess, Thorsten/Jaeger, Markus: Das Konzentrationslager Mittelbau Dora. Ein historischer Abriß, Berlin/Bonn 1993.
Fings, Karola: "Nationalsozialistische Zwangslager für Sinti und Roma", in: Wolfgang Benz, Barbara Distel (Hg.): Der Ort des Terrors. Geschichte der nationalsozialistischen Konzentrationslager, Bd. 9, München 2009, S. 192-217.
Fings, Karola: Messelager Köln: ein KZ-Außenlager im Zentrum der Stadt, Schriften des NS-Dokumentationszentrums der Stadt Köln, Bd. 3, Köln 1996.
Fings, Karola/Sparing, Frank: "Z. Zt. Zigeunerlager". Die Verfolgung der Düsseldorfer Sinti und Roma im Nationalsozialismus, Köln 1992.
Finn, Gerhard: Sachsenhausen 1936 - 1950. Geschichte eines Lagers, Bonn 1985.
Freund, Florian/Perz, Bertrand: Das KZ in der Serbenhalle. Zur Kriegsindustrie in Wiener Neustadt, Wien 1987.
Freund, Florian/Perz, Bertrand: "Mauthausen - Stammlager", in: Wolfgang Benz, Barbara Distel (Hg.): Der Ort des Terrors. Geschichte der nationalsozialistischen Konzentrationslager, Bd. 4, München 2006, S. 293-346.
Freyberg, Jutta von/Krause-Schmitt, Ursula: Moringen - Lichtenburg - Ravensbrück. Frauen im Konzentrationslager 1933-1945. Lesebuch zur Ausstellung, Frankfurt a. M. 1997.
Garbe, Detlef: "Neuengamme - Stammlager", in: Wolfgang Benz, Barbara Distel (Hg.): Der Ort des Terrors. Geschichte der nationalsozialistischen Konzentrationslager, Bd. 5, München 2007, S. 315-346.
Gedenkstätte Buchenwald (Hg.): Konzentrationslager Buchenwald 1937-1945. Begleitband zur ständigen historischen Ausstellung, Göttingen 1999.
Golczewski, Frank: "Polen", in: Wolfgang Benz (Hg.): Die Dimension des Völkermords. Die Zahl der jüdischen Opfer des Nationalsozialismus, München 1996, S. 411-497.
Grabowska, Janina: K.L. Stutthof: "Ein historischer Abriß", in: Hermann Kuhn (Hg.): Stutthof: Ein Konzentrationslager vor den Toren Danzigs, Bremen 1995, S. S. 8-93.
Grieger, Manfred: "Arbeitsdorf - Stammlager" in: Wolfgang Benz, Barbara Distel (Hg.): Der Ort des Terrors. Geschichte der nationalsozialistischen Konzentrationslager, Bd. 7, München 2008, S. 107-130.
Grieger, Manfred/Völkel, Klaus: Das Außenlager "Annener Gußstahlwerk" (AGW) des Konzentrationslagers Buchenwald. September 1944 - April 1945, Essen 1997.
Guse, Martin: "Die Jugendschutzlager in Moringen und Uckermark", in: Wolfgang Benz, Barbara Distel (Hg.): Der Ort des Terrors. Geschichte der nationalsozialistischen Konzentrationslager, Bd. 9, München 2009, S. 100-114.
Hamburger Institut für Sozialforschung (Hg.): Die Auschwitz-Hefte, Erweiterte Neuausgabe, Hamburg 1994.
Hausen, Ekkehard/Danneck, Hartmut: "Antifaschist, verzage nicht...!" Widerstand und Verfolgung in Schwenningen und Villingen 1933-1945, Villingen-Schwenningen 1990.
Heigl, Peter: Konzentrationslager Flossenbürg in Geschichte und Gegenwart. Bilder und Dokumente gegen das zweite Vergessen, 3. Auflage, Regensburg 1994.
Herbert, Ulrich: "Vernichtungspolitik", in: ders. (Hg.): Nationalsozialistische Vernichtungspolitik 1939 - 1945. Neue Forschungen und Kontroversen, Frankfurt a. M. 1998.
Herbert, Ulrich: "Von Auschwitz nach Essen, Die Geschichte des KZ-Außenlagers Humboldtstraße", in: Wolfgang Benz und Barbara Distel (Hg.): Sklavenarbeit im KZ, Dachauer Hefte, Heft 2, München 1993, S. 13-34.
Hertz-Eichenrode, Katharina: '"Jeden Tag dachten wir, daß wir unten bleiben." Besuchsreise ehemaliger Häftlinge des KZ-Außenlagers Helmstedt-Beendorf nach Beendorf im September 1994', in: KZ-Gedenkstätte Neuengamme (Hg.): Beiträge zur Geschichte der nationalsozialistischen Verfolgung in Norddeutschland: Kriegsende und Befreiung, Heft 2, Bremen 1995, S. 109-112.
Herzog, Monika/Strebel, Bernhard: "Das Frauenkonzentrationslager Ravensbrück", in: Füllberg-Stolberg u.a. (Hg.): Frauen in Konzentrationslagern. Bergen Belsen; Ravensbrück, Bremen 1994, S. 13-26.
Hilberg, Raul: Die Vernichtung der europäischen Juden, 3 Bde, Frankfurt a. M. 1997.
Hirschfeld, Gerhard : "Niederlande", in: Wolfgang Benz (Hg.): Die Dimension des Völkermords. Die Zahl der jüdischen Opfer des Nationalsozialismus, München 1996, S. 137-166.
Hoch, Gerhard : "Glasau und Siblin", in: ders. und Rolf Schwarz (Hg.): Verschleppt zur Sklavenarbeit. Kriegsgefangene und Zwangsarbeiter in Schleswig Holstein, 2. Auflage, Alverslohe und Rendsburg 1988, S. 13-28.
Hoey, Albert van: "Todesmarsch und Befreiung", in: Gerhard Hoch und Rolf Schwarz (Hg.): Verschleppt zur Sklavenarbeit. Kriegsgefangene und Zwangsarbeiter in Schleswig Holstein, 2. Auflage, Alveslohe und Rendsburg, 1988, S. 7-12.
Holoch, Rudi: 'Das Lager Schörzingen in der "Gruppe Wüste"', in: Herwart Vorländer (Hg.): Nationalsozialistische Konzentrationslager im Dienst der totalen Kriegsführung. Sieben württembergische Außenkommandos des Konzentrationslagers Natzweiler/Elsaß, Stuttgart 1978, S. 224-268.
Holzhaider, Hans: '"Schwester Pia". Nutznießerin zwischen Opfern und Tätern', in: Wolfgang Benz und Barbara Diestel (Hg.): Täter und Opfer, Dachauer Hefte, Heft 10, München 1994, S. 101-114.
Hüser, Karl: Wewelsburg 1933 bis 1945: Kult- und Terrorstätte der SS. Eine Dokumentation, Paderborn 1982.
Internationaler Suchdienst (Hg.): Verzeichnis der Haftstätten unter dem Reichsführer SS (1933-1945). Konzentrationslager und deren Außenkommandos sowie andere Haftstätten unter dem Reichsführer SS in Deutschland und deutsch besetzten Gebieten, unveröffentlichtes Manuskript, Archiv Arolsen, Arolsen 1979.
Jahn, Franziska: "Salaspils", in: Wolfgang Benz, Barbara Distel (Hg.): Der Ort des Terrors. Geschichte der nationalsozialistischen Konzentrationslager, Bd. 9, München 2009, S. 548-558.
Jahn, Franziska: "Riga-Kaiserwald - Stammlager", in: Wolfgang Benz, Barbara Distel (Hg.): Der Ort des Terrors. Geschichte der nationalsozialistischen Konzentrationslager, Bd. 8, München 2008, S. 17-63.
Johe, Werner: Neuengamme: Zur Geschichte der Konzentrationslager in Hamburg, Hamburg 1982.
John-Stucke, Kirsten: "Niederhagen/Wewelsburg - Stammlager" in: Wolfgang Benz, Barbara Distel (Hg.): Der Ort des Terrors. Geschichte der nationalsozialistischen Konzentrationslager, Bd. 7, München 2008, S. 17-29.
Kádár, Gábor/Vagi, Zoltán: "Ungarn", in: Wolfgang Benz, Barbara Distel (Hg.): Der Ort des Terrors. Geschichte der nationalsozialistischen Konzentrationslager, Bd. 9, München 2009, S. 354-372.
Kaienburg, Hermann: Das Konzentrationslager Neuengamme 1938-1945, Hg.: KZ-Gedenkstätte Neuengamme, Bonn 1997.
Kaienburg, Hermann: "Sachsenhausen - Stammlager", in: Wolfgang Benz, Barbara Distel (Hg.): Der Ort des Terrors. Geschichte der nationalsozialistischen Konzentrationslager, Bd. 3, München 2006, S. 17-72.
Keuerleber-Siegle, Barbara: "Das Lager Echterdingen", in: Herwart Vorländer (Hg.): Nationalsozialistische Konzentrationslager im Dienst der totalen Kriegsführung. Sieben württembergische Außenkommandos des Konzentrationslagers Natzweiler/Elsaß, Stuttgart 1978, S. 131-148.
Kiderlen, Dorothea: " 'Duesch halt fescht d'Zähn' zammabeißa, ...' - Verfolgung und Vernichtung der Ravensburger Sinti-", in: Peter Eitel (Hg.): Ravensburg im Dritten Reich. Beiträge zur Geschichte der Stadt, Ravensburg 1998, S. 342-360.
Kimmel, Günther: "Das Konzentrationslager Dachau. Eine Studie zu den nationalsozialistischen Gewaltverbrechen", in: Martin Broszat und Elke Fröhlich (Hg.): Bayern in der NS-Zeit, Herrschaft und Gesellschaft im Konflikt, Bd. II, Teil A, München 1979, S. 349-413.
Klarsfeld, Serge: Vichy - Auschwitz. Die Zusammenarbeit der deutschen und französischen Behörden bei der "Endlösung der Judenfrage" in Frankreich, Nördlingen 1989.
Klee, Ernst: "Euthanasie" im NS-Staat. Die "Vernichtung lebensunwerten Lebens", Frankfurt a. M. 1983.
Klee, Ernst: Dokumente der "Euthanasie", Frankfurt a. M. 1985.
Klein, Peter: "Kulmhof/Chelmno", in: Wolfgang Benz, Barbara Distel (Hg.): Der Ort des Terrors. Geschichte der nationalsozialistischen Konzentrationslager, Bd. 8, München 2008, S. 301-328.
Klein, Ralph: "Chaidari", in: Wolfgang Benz, Barbara Distel (Hg.): Der Ort des Terrors. Geschichte der nationalsozialistischen Konzentrationslager, Bd. 9, München 2009, S. 559-572.
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Unless you would ascribe total incompetence to this team of researchers and their sources used, I think we have to interpret the list and data I've shared as more or less accurate.

[Callafangers]

The answer is, as recorded at Wannsee;

"Under proper guidance, in the course of the final solution the Jews are to be allocated for appropriate labor in the East. Able-bodied Jews, separated according to sex, will be taken in large work columns to these areas for work on roads, in the course of which action doubtless a large portion will be eliminated by natural causes."

You circle back to this Wannsee nonsense every now and then, it's been addressed and demolished:

In short:

• The relevant passage describes a plan to use Jews in forced labor for road construction.
• It anticipates that many will naturally drop out of the workforce due to the physical demands of the work.
• Those who remain are the most resistant and will require special handling or containment.
• There's a concern that if this resistant group were released, they might form the basis for a new, empowered Jewish community.

viewtopic.php?p=7192#p7192

[Callafangers]

I think I missed a critical point earlier on... The estimates for working Jews we might infer from statements like these:

If all the manpower which worked for the OT directly or
indirectly, in the early part of 1943, is calculated, the figure
may well reach the neighbourhood of two million, mostly located
outside the Reich. In the winter of 1944/45, before the current
Allied advances into Germany, it is estimated to have dropped to
about one million, mostly inside the Reich. A further step in
regimenting manpower was taken in March 1944 when all foreign
labour was partitioned into units of 20 men called "Kolonnen",
units of about 125 called "Hundertschaften" or "Bereitschaften",
and - sometimes - into units of 250 called "Abteilungen". These
formed the vast bulk of OT labour and included the Zwangsarbeiter
(Forced Labour), mostly Russians and Jews (See IIIBb119-122). The
term Bautrupps which had ceased to exist after the dissolution of
the early German construction detachments, was revived some weeks
before D-day (See IAI3 and XB16) .

...only refer to those Jews working in labor camps under the direct or indirect administration of the OT... but this only comprises a fraction of the Jewish forced labor camps we know to have existed. Consider that:

• OT was primarily focused on major construction projects: Atlantic Wall fortifications, autobahns, airfields, bunkers, and infrastructure in occupied territories
• It operated across most of German-occupied Europe but was concentrated in strategically important construction zones

As we can see from the data and list provided, many if not most of these sites were not explicitly assigned to the OT (see the "Company" data field, hovering over each map marker):

https://www.mapcustomizer.com/map/Zwang ... ndUkraine7

I've yet to calculate what percentage of these sites have "OT" explicitly, but I think it is safe to say that the number of Jews at work must be far greater than just those working under the OT umbrella. The greater proportion of camps for Women shown here further support this, as per the PDF provided in the OP, the camps of the OT were almost entirely for Men.

[Callafangers]

Millions of Jews in fact were non-working within the ghetto system. Using labor requires investment in that labor, and investing food and resources in sick Jews, elderly, and children weren't deemed worth it.

It is the "weren't deemed worth it" part that you lack evidence, unfortunate for you.

There was much work to be done that did not require an especially high degree of physical ability or fitness, such that people who might generally be considered "unfit for work" could still perform effectively. In fact, some of the lightest work we find on the map provided are at camps relatively near to the transit points of Belzec, Sobibor, and Treblinka, such as shoemaking, laundry, tailoring, property warehouse work, assembly work, and more, all along the route from Sobibor toward Minsk, and a wide variety of work on the line from Treblinka-Malkinia toward Vilna and surrounding areas.

Just what percentage of the Jewish population do you suppose was so severely disabled as to be unable to participate even in assembly work, laundry, or shoemaking?

[bombsaway]

Millions of Jews in fact were non-working within the ghetto system. Using labor requires investment in that labor, and investing food and resources in sick Jews, elderly, and children weren't deemed worth it.

It is the "weren't deemed worth it" part that you lack evidence, unfortunate for you.

There was much work to be done that did not require an especially high degree of physical ability or fitness, such that people who might generally be considered "unfit for work" could still perform effectively. In fact, some of the lightest work we find on the map provided are at camps relatively near to the transit points of Belzec, Sobibor, and Treblinka, such as shoemaking, laundry, tailoring, property warehouse work, assembly work, and more, all along the route from Sobibor toward Minsk, and a wide variety of work on the line from Treblinka-Malkinia toward Vilna and surrounding areas.

Just what percentage of the Jewish population do you suppose was so severely disabled as to be unable to participate even in assembly work, laundry, or shoemaking?

This is where things get iffy for you because we can speak from an evidence based perspective rather than purely speculative. It's a simple fact that across all the ghettos you had millions of Jews sitting around that weren't employed. There were workshops within ghettos and Jews were sometimes given work permits to leave, but a huge chunk (a majority probably? nick?) weren't employed.

This is not just speculation, you can see it in official Nazi documents. Let's look at Minsk ghetto

Without contacting me, the Army Rear Zone Command liquidated 10,000 Jews, whose systematic elimination had in any case been planned by us. In the city of Minsk about 10,000 Jews were liquidated on July 28 and 29. Of these 6,500 were Russian Jews – mainly old men, women and children – and the rest Jews incapable of work, who were sent to Minsk in November of last year by order of the Fuehrer, mainly from Vienna, Bruenn, Bremen and Berlin.

In the city of Minsk about 2,600 Jews from Germany have remained.

So the ratio for "resettled" Jews from Germany is 2,600 Jews capable, 3,500 not, half a year after their arrival. If it had been deemed beneficial for NS Germany to employ these Jews, they would have done so. Remember that "beneficial" is judged from within the NS framework where racial considerations were quite important and considered alongside economic ones.

[Stubble]

Millions of Jews in fact were non-working within the ghetto system. Using labor requires investment in that labor, and investing food and resources in sick Jews, elderly, and children weren't deemed worth it.
[...]
Can you show me the document thats says Jewish children at age 4 should be put to work?
[...]
yeah, movement of 116,000 Poles left WAY WAY more evidence of resettlement than millions of Jews.

https://codoh.com/library/document/thre ... tation-of/

What is important to note, however, is the fact that, among the Hungarian Jews in Austria, prisoners who were theoretically unable to work were assigned to labor sites. For example, a letter from the “Technical Emergency Assistance Office Bad-Vöslau” (Technische Nothilfe Dienststelle Bad-Vöslau) addressed to the Vienna II Branch of Eichmann’s Sondereinsatzkommando dated November 7, 1944 contains a list of 42 Hungarian Jews employed “since October 1, 1944 on the construction of a foundation (underground shelter) for the SS hospital.” It is also noted that:[132]

“These Jews are from the Strasshof camp and have been working in Klein-Mariazell and Bernhof after the flooding disaster and on the construction of emergency homes.”

These people were thus actual workers. The list includes 13 Jews over 70 years of age, one 15-year-old, one 13-year-old, one 10-year-old, two 8-year-olds and one 4-year-old. The oldest one, Arnold Singer, was born on 28 March 1868 and was thus 76 years old, while the youngest, Agnes Anisfeld, was born on August 31, 1940 and thus was only 4 years old.

If I recall correctly, there is a memo from Speer's desk concerning reducing the age of employment to 4 from 13? IIRC? I'll look for it. I'm trying to remember which set if came from, may have been from the German archives, may have come out of the National Archives here. With the file system I'm fine tuning, I should be able to find it fairly easily, currently it is maxed out doing OCR and translation.

Regarding ghettoized jews and unemployment, I'll look for the memoranda regarding this as well. What it looks like from here is that Germany got into a crunch for labor for infrastructure repair and defensive projects (wire structures, tank traps, fortifications etc) and the ghettos were a hotbed of partisan activity. Clearing them out was a 2 birds with 1 stone deal. Get the people put to work making gunpowder, loading shells, rebuilding bridges etc, and also, winnow out partisans and dispatch them through shooting.

Nasty business to be sure, war is almost never pleasant.

The incurably sick were processed through 14f13 and 'euthanized'.

Again, nasty business, and unpleasant.

If I were to venture a guess about who was in the graves at the Bug river camps, it would be those cohorts, incurables and partisans.

In Soviet terminology, these facilities would have been called 'filtration camps' I believe, and this type of operation was not unique to the Germans.

The paper trail. For some reason, this labor operation, especially where it concerned jews, was of the absolute highest secrecy, apparently.

Some reading from Yad Vashim;

https://www.yadvashem.org/articles/acad ... ories.html

[Callafangers]

This is where things get iffy for you because we can speak from an evidence based perspective rather than purely speculative. It's a simple fact that across all the ghettos you had millions of Jews sitting around that weren't employed. There were workshops within ghettos and Jews were sometimes given work permits to leave, but a huge chunk (a majority probably? nick?) weren't employed.

Yes, in some of the ghettos, this was the case, because the ghettos were not strictly work sites -- hence the need of sending many Jews to the East, where there were many work sites, factories, etc. which might better suit their predicaments (e.g. need for lighter work). This is not speculation -- we can see the type of work conducted at these facilities being much better aligned with the circumstances of Jews less fit for more heavy munitions work, construction work, etc.

This is not just speculation, you can see it in official Nazi documents. Let's look at Minsk ghetto

Without contacting me, the Army Rear Zone Command liquidated 10,000 Jews, whose systematic elimination had in any case been planned by us. In the city of Minsk about 10,000 Jews were liquidated on July 28 and 29. Of these 6,500 were Russian Jews – mainly old men, women and children – and the rest Jews incapable of work, who were sent to Minsk in November of last year by order of the Fuehrer, mainly from Vienna, Bruenn, Bremen and Berlin.

In the city of Minsk about 2,600 Jews from Germany have remained.

So the ratio for "resettled" Jews from Germany is 2,600 Jews capable, 3,500 not, half a year after their arrival. If it had been deemed beneficial for NS Germany to employ these Jews, they would have done so. Remember that "beneficial" is judged from within the NS framework where racial considerations were quite important and considered alongside economic ones.

Kube's supposed letter of 31 July 1942 (please cite your sources going forward) at worst reflects a rather unique set of instances where some tens of thousands of Jews (10,000 in your quoted excerpt) were potentially liquidated (with or without his authorization) based on considerations related to partisan threats and activities at a time and location where these concerns were especially paramount. This reflects improvised security measures over any "bigger picture" extermination narrative but it is likely distorted by the assumption that "systematic elimination had in any case been planned by us" also necessarily means 'extermination'. Considering their administrative roles and overlap, Kube's letter to Lohse was one focused on stability and labor considerations, hence Jews being "eliminated" does not require murder (as opposed to gradual/systematic removal from his areas of concern). Moreover, the killings Kube refers to were rejected at a higher level (Holocaust Encyclopedia entry on Alfred Rosenberg):

In the summer of 1942, with the evacuation of tens of thousands of Polish Jews from the Warsaw Ghetto in full swing, the receiving locations in the East were completely overwhelmed. In a desperate reaction to this, Wilhelm Kube, general commissar for Belorussia, complained to his superior Lohse on 31 July 1942 (and later also to Rosenberg directly), indicating that they had been executing tens of thousands of Jews in the area to prevent them from supporting the partisans. However, new transports of Jews were constantly arriving, making it impossible to pacify the region, evidently because these Jews ended up joining the partisans, too. Therefore, Kube threatened that they would henceforth execute all Jews arriving in unannounced transports, evidently rather than accommodating them. After some back and forth, Kube was made to shut up and accept and accommodate the incoming Jewish transports as “new residents” anyhow.

Above all, citing this letter to support your position on the more general interpretation of Jews fit vs. unfit for labor across Europe is obviously not a valid approach. This example in Kube's letter is at worst an exception -- not the rule.

[SanityCheck]

The screenshot about a ZALfJ in Bialystok is quite instructive of the problems with interpreting some of the older 'directories' - the source given is ITS 1979, which is likely available on the Arolsen Archives or in their online library.

I hear you, the screenshot I provided was just a quick screen-grab I captured to highlight Nessie's misunderstanding of the formatting and proper interpretation of closure dates (or lack thereof). I had noticed it was for Bialystok, but this was beside the point.

Regarding your criticisms of the validity of that particular entry within the list, sure, there may be room for correction, but much research went into the original list which the Bialystok entry is based upon. Even if we assume your rejection of this particular item is valid, this is likely a relatively isolated instance -- we can be confident that most entries on the list will still hold, and that many others may remain undiscovered.
...
Unless you would ascribe total incompetence to this team of researchers and their sources used, I think we have to interpret the list and data I've shared as more or less accurate.

The lengthy bibliography rather conspicuously leans to the KZ system and its sub-camps; the explanatory blurb noted the significance of the Ort des Terrors encyclopedia, as is unsurprising for a project in Germany from 2009 onwards. Many contributors to OdT were researching particular KZ complexes and their sub-camps, there was a degree of overlap with USHMM Encyclopedia vol I covering the WVHA camps. The KZ system and its sub-camps have been scrutinised and rescrutinised very closely.

By contrast, the bibliography cites some good historians offering short overviews on the bigger forced labour camps (Dieter Pohl, Mario Wenzel), but not the encyclopedias in Polish or which cover Belarus and Ukraine (the Belarusian one is a bilingual German-Russian directory), or even some of the more detailed studies in German. It lists a variety of chapters from the 1998 Herbert/Dieckmann/Orth edited collection of conference papers, so one by Christoph Dieckmann on ghettos/camps in Lithuania, but not Dieckmann's much more extensive 2011 book. Mario Wenzel has similarly published a more extensive monograph on the larger SS-Arbeitslager in the Krakow district, which isn't listed.

So the default 'ITS 1979' references mean this hasn't progressed beyond what I could compile from the previous version of the website directory in 2006, when it comes to the smaller camps.

There's a lot of agreement between the different directories and lists, but I expect things to be substantially cleared up by USHMM Encyclopedia Vol VI, which will cover ZALfJ among other categories.

It'd help to count camps by region (Distrikt Lublin, Galizien, etc) in the meantime. Then one can compare with the known ghettos, consult USHMM Encyclopedia vol II entries which often note the dispatch of smaller workforces away from a ghetto, identify the formal KL-Aussenlager (WVHA camps), and group by type of employment.

Between USHMM and Yad Vashem (as well as Chronicles of Terror to some extent, and also the Jewish Historical Institute Warsaw), one can likely find testimonies from the actual camps persisting into 1943-44.

As an example from when I went through the old site and compiled by-district listings, this one looked suspect at first glance and on checking contains an error:
Przedborz Radom 7.44 10.44 F Panzergrabenbau

On searching Yad Vashem I found this summary among the 31 hits for Przedborz
https://collections.yadvashem.org/en/documents/3561987

Testimony of David Landau, born in Czestochowa, 1919, regarding his experiences in the Czestochowa Ghetto, a HASAG factory and in the Buchenwald and Przedborz Camps

Assimilated family in Lodz; life before the war; studies medicine in London; returns home middle of 1939; outbreak of the war; escapes to Czestochowa; moves to Kielce, January 1940; works in Jewish hospital; deported to ghetto, 1941; ghetto life; Aktion in hospital, 20 October 1942; works as volunteer in the HASAG factory, November 1942; camp life, works as physician in an ammunition factory; transfer to Przedborz, digs anti-tank trenches , June 1944; deported to Buchenwald, August 1944; camp life; teaches children under cover; hospital physician; participates in underground trials of collaborators. Liberation; establishes a childrens' hospital; aliya to Eretz Israel via France, May 1945.

Landau could be wrong on the dates a bit, but the time-frame fits and the purpose fits.

The dating and purpose of field fortification construction made the entry look fishy, as Jews were being evacuated from the factory/armaments camps of the Radom District in July 1944, with the exception of Czestochowa. It makes sense if a contingent of unknown size was taken from Czestochowa to be put to work in this way. That also happened with various construction commandos and mobile sub-camps of KL Stutthof and KL Gross-Rosen in the same time-frame. But it means a known remnant/survivor workforce in the Czestochowa camp was raided for trench-digging, and not that this was a hitherto unknown camp holding thousands of, say, Hungarian Jews. One can also easily check that the Przedborz ghetto had been dissolved by transfer to Radomsko in October 1942 (USHMM Encyclopedia vol II), that there were no other Jewish forced labour camps earlier on associated with the town (Obozy 1979 and Jozef Marsalek, Obozy Pracy, 1998), and that Poles were also impressed for a camp that was part of the 'Merkur' defense line. Everything thus fits and raises no anomalies or concerns.

[Stubble]

[...]searching Yad Vashem I found this summary among the 31 hits for Przedborz
https://collections.yadvashem.org/en/documents/3561987

[...] August 1944; camp life; teaches children under cover; hospital physician; participates in underground trials of collaborators. Liberation; establishes a childrens' hospital; aliya to Eretz Israel via France, May 1945.

[...]

I'm sorry, what? Detainees holding mock trials for detainees? Were they, sentenced...?

You know what, I'm not even going to take the bait, this rabbit trail looks fascinating and super crazy, but, I'm supposed to be in hiatus from the forum doing research. I just want to make absolutely sure nobody, misses this detail. Apparently, there was a justice system among jewish detainees inside the KZ system....

Let that sink in...

[Callafangers]

There's a lot of agreement between the different directories and lists, but I expect things to be substantially cleared up by USHMM Encyclopedia Vol VI, which will cover ZALfJ among other categories.

Yes, it will no doubt "cover" these things but overwhelmingly from word-of-mouth claims, often inconsistent or absurdity-riddled, the majority of which will have no reasonable corroboration from official German documents, if any at all, let alone physical evidence of any kind. If we rely on claims from people benefiting from the war which raised propaganda as a foremost weapon in modern warfare -- only seeking 'convergence' between this and coerced statements or Soviet-led "investigations" and documents, most of the time -- are we taking this seriously?

It's no secret that exterminationists are laissez faire on everything-source-criticism but claims this big with sources just as bad doesn't exactly spell "certainty", nor even "confidence".

[Nessie]

The answer is, as recorded at Wannsee;

"Under proper guidance, in the course of the final solution the Jews are to be allocated for appropriate labor in the East. Able-bodied Jews, separated according to sex, will be taken in large work columns to these areas for work on roads, in the course of which action doubtless a large portion will be eliminated by natural causes."

You circle back to this Wannsee nonsense every now and then, it's been addressed and demolished:

In short:

• The relevant passage describes a plan to use Jews in forced labor for road construction.
• It anticipates that many will naturally drop out of the workforce due to the physical demands of the work.
• Those who remain are the most resistant and will require special handling or containment.
• There's a concern that if this resistant group were released, they might form the basis for a new, empowered Jewish community.

viewtopic.php?p=7192#p7192

Organisation Todt was an infrastructure construction company, that built many new roads.

[Nessie]

One glaring issue I'd like to point out, and that may be getting missed, is what constituted a 'working jew', and just how many there were. 'Eastern labor' in a support capacity in the east was vast, and was composed of men, women, and children down to the age of 4.

The necessity of this labor force is undeniable. These people were manufacturing arms, repairing roads and communications as well as rail ways, they were making sure that food was prepared, they were an indispensable feature of the war effort.

The idea that 'millions of jews' were 'non working' is to me absurd. When you look at the grave space, it is woefully insufficient for the claimed toll.

Millions of Jews in fact were non-working within the ghetto system...

Again, there is a chronological issue with that. By the end of 1944, there were zero Jews in ghettos, as they had all closed down. Organisation Todt was also not accommodating them in 1944.

[Callafangers]

Organisation Todt was an infrastructure construction company, that built many new roads.

Ah, were they tailors and shoemakers as well?

[Callafangers]

Again, there is a chronological issue with that. By the end of 1944, there were zero Jews in ghettos, as they had all closed down. Organisation Todt was also not accommodating them in 1944.

And yet hundreds (at least) of Zwangsarbeitslagers fur Juden remained in operation, as far as we know. Organization Todt was not exactly "organized" in the East. And they were not the only employer who had Jewish laborers.

Additionally, the overall scarcity of information on all of this is quite insightful -- it flies against your regular assumption that we "should have more" documentation if Jews had indeed survived at these locations. It's turning out quite clear that, no -- no, we shouldn't. Even for arrangements we know for certain existed, there is barely anything known. Even for the periods we agree that Zwangsarbeitslagers in any area were opened, minimal records of them exist at all, and we certainly cannot speak to the day-to-day operations, overall camp strength/population, etc.

This is how the Holocaust Industry has gotten away with their shenanigans for so long. The scarcity of information is obvious, given the scale and distance being considered, so it is easy to fill-in the gaps with whatever atrocity tales witnesses X, Y, and Z decide to share or invent. And once others hear of that same tale, they are presented with a choice and an opportunity of whether to deny or to confirm it. Some would assume that truth is always a priority but the nature of the war and of how information was being used at this time suggests otherwise, as does the remarkable pattern of inconsistent, impossible, or improbable claims well-known to 'Holocaust' testimony.