Video of Germans gassing people with exhaust gas

[curioussoul]

Came across this video the other day, anyone know the background?



It was uploaded to YouTube in 2009 and appears to be from a USHMM exhibit. The description, from a sign next to the exhibition monitor, says:

"The Nazi SS carry out a gassing experiment using human subjects at Mogilev in German-occupied Soviet Union, fall 1941. They aimed to perfect a new method for killing Jews and political enemies. The method in use - shooting people at close range - was seen as harmful to the psyche and morale of the killers. Gassing, already tested at the German "euthanasia" facilities, helped distance the killers from their victims. A German chemist, Dr. Albert Widmann, participated in this 1941 test."

The video states:

"To test a new killing method, hoses were run from German police vehicles into a sealed building. Psychiatric patients were brought to the building, undressed and led inside. A policeman from Einsatzgruppe B stands guard. The vehicles began running. A few minutes later, the people inside were unconscious. Both vehicles ran another 10 minutes."

I've never seen this video before. After digging deeper, these were supposedly patients from insane asylums in Mogilev and Minsk. Wikipedia quotes Arad:

"In September 1941, Einsatzgruppe B was faced with the task of liquidating the patients of the lunatic asylums in the cities of Minsk and Mogilev. Nebe decided to find a simpler way for his men to kill the mentally diseased, other than by shooting them. He contacted Kripo headquarters and asked for their help in carrying out the killing of the insane with either explosives or poison gas. Dr. Widmann of the Criminal Police was sent to Nebe in Minsk, but before he left, Dr. Widmann discussed with the director of the Criminal Police Technological Institute, Dr. Heess, ways of using the carbon monoxide gas from automobile exhaust for killing operations in the East, based on the experience gained from the euthanasia program. Dr. Widmann took to Minsk 400 kg of explosive material and the metal pipes required for the gassing installations.

[...]

A few days later an experiment with poison gas was carried out by Nebe and Dr. Widmann in Mogilev. In the local lunatic asylum, a room with twenty to thirty of the insane was closed hermetically, and two pipes were driven into the wall. A car was parked outside, and one of the metal pipes that Dr. Widmann had brought connected the exhaust of the car to the pipe in the wall. The car engine was turned on and the carbon monoxide began seeping into the room. After eight minutes, the people in the room were still alive. A second car was connected to the other pipe in the wall. The two cars were operated simultaneously, and a few minutes later all those in the room were dead."

Source is Arad's Belzec, Sobibor, Treblinka: The Operation Reinhard Death Camps from 1987. Not sure what Arad's sources are.

This supposedly inspired the later "gas vans". But I've never seen this footage discussed anywhere before.

[Wetzelrad]

I had not seen it either. I can't find a clean version of it, but it does appear at the start of this video produced in 1948 mixed with stuff from Nuremberg and elsewhere. Some audio.
https://collections.ushmm.org/search/catalog/irn1003763

[Stubble]

Soviet 'recreation' isn't it? Also, it appears to be cut from more than 1 reel.

Can be seen at timestamp 37:07 here;



Looks like HC Blog is shopping it around as legit;

https://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot ... g.html?m=1

And the USHMM;

https://collections.ushmm.org/search/catalog/irn1003763

I've got somebody breaking it down in a documentary some place not handy because I don't remember which one.

It may have been Dr Pierce breaking it down, I don't exactly recall.

[Wetzelrad]

There is an information rich article on CODOH related to this, but it's old and almost definitely contains inaccuracies.
https://codoh.com/library/document/the- ... d-gas-van/

The HC blog also has a seven-page article about this which looks interesting, and a robust comment section too on page 6. Metzner's position is that there were doubts in the past about its authenticity including by the USHMM itself -- which might explain why we haven't seen it -- but that its authenticity today is genuine.
https://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot ... ssing.html

[Hans]

There is an information rich article on CODOH related to this, but it's old and almost definitely contains inaccuracies.
https://codoh.com/library/document/the- ... d-gas-van/

The HC blog also has a seven-page article about this which looks interesting, and a robust comment section too on page 6. Metzner's position is that there were doubts in the past about its authenticity including by the USHMM itself -- which might explain why we haven't seen it -- but that its authenticity today is genuine.
https://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot ... ssing.html

Jup, and it is worth noting that the tactical sign - previously questioned by German investigators - has now been confirmed as authentic for Einsatzgruppe B, incidently appearing in rear footage of a homicidal gas van.

https://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot ... ssing.html

[fireofice]

It's fake and staged. It probably is a real car from Einsatzkommando 8, but the Allies definitely had access to all kinds of German vehicles after the war.

[Hans]

It's fake and staged.

How do you know?

[fireofice]

It's fake and staged.

How do you know?

Well I don't "know" with certainty. My belief is based on the probability that with all the other shenanigans that went on in pushing this hoax, that this film is probably fake and staged. Of course, if you believe that everything was completely fair and above board (lol) then you are likely to disagree.

[Stubble]

I mean, you could look at the statements.

/shrug

It is also cut.

Personally, I'd examine the film stock if it was me and see what tins they came from and how they ended up meeting in such a way.

That's just me though, there, is a stencil on a truck and a license plate after all.

[Callafangers]

Regarding the alleged location, if the bricks don't fit, you must acquit.

bricks.jpg (93.95 KiB) Viewed 52 times

That said, I was half-expecting it would fit and still recognized that this would be more suggestive of an on-site post-war Allied film-smear (like the many other falsified scenes from Buchenwald to Dachau, Majdanek and beyond). What remains lacking is credible evidence not from the hands of those seeking to 'denazify' Germany through atrocity narratives post-war, or from witnesses who can keep their stories straight and congruent with physical and documentary evidence (if any), and within reason.

Hans has shown us that, once again, this is where he lacks. A movie set and more unchallenged witnesses in show trials postwar is what we have come to expect.

[fireofice]

Regarding the alleged location, if the bricks don't fit, you must acquit.

That is weird with the layout of the bricks. What do you make of Sergey's analysis?

https://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot ... ng_23.html

[Callafangers]

Regarding the alleged location, if the bricks don't fit, you must acquit.

That is weird with the layout of the bricks. What do you make of Sergey's analysis?

https://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot ... ng_23.html

I think he chose the bricks that were the least damaged or otherwise darker in color and then drew a circle around them. Then he used perspective cropping which is a pretty extreme form of photo manipulation, among others (e.g. adjustments to brightness/contrast). Altogether, it was his best effort to show alignment in bricks that have some similarities but while ignoring the differences also present.

Bricks are often laid in a similar pattern. Alternating with long-direction laying for one row, then short-direction on the next is common. When you have this, you have repeating patterns since the bricks every so often will inevitably form the same shape as they did elsewhere. Sometimes, you can even end up with coloration similarities that are then emphasized or exaggerated through changes in brightness/contrast (photo manipulation), which is what Sergey has done here. It's also sometimes misleading to show a fade between the two photos (i.e. the video/gif), as this can give the impression of greater similarity than there actually is (since you're not seeing the full depth/contrast of each photo individually and comparing them as such, easier to mistake blemishes/features as being present in both when actually only in one or the other).

All of this in mind, and especially considering the major discrepancies I just pointed out, I am not convinced we're looking at the same location. But again, even if we are, it's akin to another Dachau, another Majdanek, etc. This would simply be on-site footage/narrative that did not initially make the cutting room floor (other than for the US Army propaganda film), hence why it has hardly been seen by anyone a century later.

[Booze]

The vast majority of these films for some reason, it may be cultural, seem to include obligatory male nudity.
If this contraption was actually German in origin, why not show the chamber, the location etc, instead?
Why would the Germans supposedly erase all traces of Reinhard camps yet leave this thing in place?

[Booze]

It's fake and staged. It probably is a real car from Einsatzkommando 8, but the Allies definitely had access to all kinds of German vehicles after the war.

What distinguishes a car from Einsatzkommando 8, from just a car?

[Stubble]

A movie set and more unchallenged witnesses in show trials postwar is what we have come to expect.

To be very clear, the accused were pretty specific that it wasn't the place.

You'd think they would have noticed a film crew as well.