British Intelligence - war-time knowledge

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Nessie
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Re: British Intelligence - war-time knowledge

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Archie wrote: Fri Jun 27, 2025 12:38 pm It seems we have some contradictions here that we will need to resolve.

1) International Zionist groups not only "knew" about the Holocaust, they were able to calculate, as early as 1944, that six million Jews had been killed.

2) British and American diplomatic and intelligence circles do not seem to been convinced, with many being openly skeptical of Jewish claims of extermination. Even the more sympathetic reactions were usually vague.

3) Jews themselves were unaware to the extermination plan throughout the war and continued to fall for the fake shower trick for over three years. This would imply that although the Zionist orgs "knew" in 1942, they were unable to inform their own people. This includes the Hungarian Jews in 1944.
There are no contradictions, if you look at events chronologically and understand that everyone across Europe did not have the same level of knowledge at the same time.

It would make more sense if you ordered your list 2, 1, then 3.

Your (2). The first reports of mass shootings came out in 1941, but at the time, in the east, with so little information and the Nazis had invaded the SU, there was nothing to suggest what would develop over the next few years. The first reports of gassings came in 1942. The British and Americans were not yet convinced of Jewish concerns about extermination, much of which were not coming from Jewish sources, but Polish intelligence.

Your (1). By 1944, there was a lot of intelligence and information, such that "International Zionist" groups were able to calculate, with reasonable accuracy, how many had been killed.

Your (3). In 1944, Germany took over Hungary, giving its leadership no choice, but to finally cooperate with demands to arrest and transport Jews to Auschwitz. How much the Hungarian leadership knew about the fate of the Jews 1941-4, it did not matter, as they had no choice. They did protect as many as they could and those sent to Auschwitz were given the resettlement and work narrative, and on arrival, that they were going to be showered. Other Jews were telling them that, so many, even if they knew about rumours of gassings, would have only realised their fate when the gas chamber door was slammed shut.
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Archie
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Re: British Intelligence - war-time knowledge

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Nessie wrote: Fri Jun 27, 2025 2:01 pm
Archie wrote: Fri Jun 27, 2025 12:54 pm
Nessie wrote: Fri Jun 27, 2025 6:18 am So, British Intelligence knew about gassings in 1942, but were far from convinced they were true.
Nessie, this is an odd statement coming from a renowned expert in philosophy and logic such as yourself. As you well know, in epistemology, "knowledge" is most often defined as something like "justified, true belief." If they did not think it was true, then it is strange to call it knowledge. Perhaps you could say that they should have known and were too blind to see, but I think an objective review of the "information" available to them leaves little mystery as to why these Jewish atrocity stories were so often disregarded.

Did the British "know" about human corpse factories in 1917?
That you are reduced to nit picking, shows you have little to contribute.

So, British Intelligence were aware of the reports of gassings in 1942, but were far from convinced they were true.
The question of war-time knowledge is an absolutely crucial point, not a nit-pick. Especially in light of your previous argument that not only was the Holocaust known outside Germany, it was sufficiently well documented at that time to allow for good statistical estimates as early as 1944.

And as far as my mocking you in that earlier post, given that you lecture everyone all the time about your self-declared expertise in logic, I think it is more than fair for me to point out instances where you reveal yourself to be anything but an expert in such matters.
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Re: British Intelligence - war-time knowledge

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Nessie wrote: Fri Jun 27, 2025 2:14 pm
Archie wrote: Fri Jun 27, 2025 12:38 pm It seems we have some contradictions here that we will need to resolve.

1) International Zionist groups not only "knew" about the Holocaust, they were able to calculate, as early as 1944, that six million Jews had been killed.

2) British and American diplomatic and intelligence circles do not seem to been convinced, with many being openly skeptical of Jewish claims of extermination. Even the more sympathetic reactions were usually vague.

3) Jews themselves were unaware to the extermination plan throughout the war and continued to fall for the fake shower trick for over three years. This would imply that although the Zionist orgs "knew" in 1942, they were unable to inform their own people. This includes the Hungarian Jews in 1944.
There are no contradictions, if you look at events chronologically and understand that everyone across Europe did not have the same level of knowledge at the same time.

It would make more sense if you ordered your list 2, 1, then 3.

Your (2). The first reports of mass shootings came out in 1941, but at the time, in the east, with so little information and the Nazis had invaded the SU, there was nothing to suggest what would develop over the next few years. The first reports of gassings came in 1942. The British and Americans were not yet convinced of Jewish concerns about extermination, much of which were not coming from Jewish sources, but Polish intelligence.

Your (1). By 1944, there was a lot of intelligence and information, such that "International Zionist" groups were able to calculate, with reasonable accuracy, how many had been killed.

Your (3). In 1944, Germany took over Hungary, giving its leadership no choice, but to finally cooperate with demands to arrest and transport Jews to Auschwitz. How much the Hungarian leadership knew about the fate of the Jews 1941-4, it did not matter, as they had no choice. They did protect as many as they could and those sent to Auschwitz were given the resettlement and work narrative, and on arrival, that they were going to be showered. Other Jews were telling them that, so many, even if they knew about rumours of gassings, would have only realised their fate when the gas chamber door was slammed shut.
Nessie, your problem is that when you are confronted with contradictions, you just make up some theory that will allow it to be harmonized and run with it without ever considering whether the fix you are proposing actually makes sense.

You are suggesting here that the contradictions I pointed out can be resolved by the timeline. Okay, let's see.

David Wyman (Abandonment, pg. 326) remarks on the Western press that “apparently, the American correspondents were unaware of or disbelieved earlier reports of Auschwitz, including the much publicized one released by the WRB the preceding November.” So it is clearly not the case that the skepticism was limited to some earlier period like 1941-1942.

Or consider this the comment from Sep 1, 1944 from A.J. Dew of the British Foreign Office: “In my opinion a disproportionate amount of the time of the Office is wasted on dealing with these wailing Jews.” (quoted in Gilbert, Auschwitz and the Allies). Does this sound like a man who was convinced of a mass extermination program? And that is not an isolated example. Gilbert also quotes another British official saying, “What is disturbing is the apparent readiness of the new Colonial Secretary to take Jewish Agency ‘sob-stuff’ at its face value. As a political maneouvre this will establish a good precedent which the Agency will no doubt exploit.”

You have suggested that there is a clear chronological division between the "knowledge" of the Jewish orgs and the British and American skepticism, but this is just not the case. Jewish groups started claiming "extermination" in mid-1942 even as we see the skepticism through to 1945 (and really it continued even after the war with earliest revisionists). By 1945 most influential persons seemed to accept the atrocity stories based largely on the films from Belsen etc.

Regarding the ignorance of Jewish victims, this is an essential part of your story. If the Jewish victims knew, then their actions, in particular their lack of resistance, are difficult to explain. The whole concept of a fake shower/gas chamber implies that the victims would be unaware. If they were aware, you would not be able to pack them into the chamber. You would have a panic on your hands and would end up having to round up and shoot the scattering victims. To make this work, you have to assume that the international Jewish orgs knew what was going on but failed to warn the remaining Jews. How is this possible? It isn't. Communications were restricted, but it was not so tight that no information at all could be passed. The fake shower trick would not have worked for over three years on more than 3 million people.
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Nessie
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Re: British Intelligence - war-time knowledge

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Archie wrote: Fri Jun 27, 2025 3:09 pm
Nessie wrote: Fri Jun 27, 2025 2:01 pm
Archie wrote: Fri Jun 27, 2025 12:54 pm

Nessie, this is an odd statement coming from a renowned expert in philosophy and logic such as yourself. As you well know, in epistemology, "knowledge" is most often defined as something like "justified, true belief." If they did not think it was true, then it is strange to call it knowledge. Perhaps you could say that they should have known and were too blind to see, but I think an objective review of the "information" available to them leaves little mystery as to why these Jewish atrocity stories were so often disregarded.

Did the British "know" about human corpse factories in 1917?
That you are reduced to nit picking, shows you have little to contribute.

So, British Intelligence were aware of the reports of gassings in 1942, but were far from convinced they were true.
The question of war-time knowledge is an absolutely crucial point, not a nit-pick. Especially in light of your previous argument that not only was the Holocaust known outside Germany, it was sufficiently well documented at that time to allow for good statistical estimates as early as 1944.
Or, it was a lucky estimate.
And as far as my mocking you in that earlier post, given that you lecture everyone all the time about your self-declared expertise in logic, I think it is more than fair for me to point out instances where you reveal yourself to be anything but an expert in such matters.
It was a semantic, rather than a logical correction. I corrected it, to something that you cannot nit-pick about.

Have you got any evidence to contribute to the debate?
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Nessie
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Re: British Intelligence - war-time knowledge

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Archie wrote: Fri Jun 27, 2025 3:30 pm
Nessie wrote: Fri Jun 27, 2025 2:14 pm
Archie wrote: Fri Jun 27, 2025 12:38 pm It seems we have some contradictions here that we will need to resolve.

1) International Zionist groups not only "knew" about the Holocaust, they were able to calculate, as early as 1944, that six million Jews had been killed.

2) British and American diplomatic and intelligence circles do not seem to been convinced, with many being openly skeptical of Jewish claims of extermination. Even the more sympathetic reactions were usually vague.

3) Jews themselves were unaware to the extermination plan throughout the war and continued to fall for the fake shower trick for over three years. This would imply that although the Zionist orgs "knew" in 1942, they were unable to inform their own people. This includes the Hungarian Jews in 1944.
There are no contradictions, if you look at events chronologically and understand that everyone across Europe did not have the same level of knowledge at the same time.

It would make more sense if you ordered your list 2, 1, then 3.

Your (2). The first reports of mass shootings came out in 1941, but at the time, in the east, with so little information and the Nazis had invaded the SU, there was nothing to suggest what would develop over the next few years. The first reports of gassings came in 1942. The British and Americans were not yet convinced of Jewish concerns about extermination, much of which were not coming from Jewish sources, but Polish intelligence.

Your (1). By 1944, there was a lot of intelligence and information, such that "International Zionist" groups were able to calculate, with reasonable accuracy, how many had been killed.

Your (3). In 1944, Germany took over Hungary, giving its leadership no choice, but to finally cooperate with demands to arrest and transport Jews to Auschwitz. How much the Hungarian leadership knew about the fate of the Jews 1941-4, it did not matter, as they had no choice. They did protect as many as they could and those sent to Auschwitz were given the resettlement and work narrative, and on arrival, that they were going to be showered. Other Jews were telling them that, so many, even if they knew about rumours of gassings, would have only realised their fate when the gas chamber door was slammed shut.
Nessie, your problem is that when you are confronted with contradictions, you just make up some theory that will allow it to be harmonized and run with it without ever considering whether the fix you are proposing actually makes sense.

You are suggesting here that the contradictions I pointed out can be resolved by the timeline. Okay, let's see.

David Wyman (Abandonment, pg. 326) remarks on the Western press that “apparently, the American correspondents were unaware of or disbelieved earlier reports of Auschwitz, including the much publicized one released by the WRB the preceding November.” So it is clearly not the case that the skepticism was limited to some earlier period like 1941-1942.
Agreed. I did say that the level of knowledge across Europe was not uniform, so same with the level of scepticism. Of course some will remain sceptical for longer than others. Jewish groups and the Polish, were convinced earlier than the British and Americans, about mass killings. There will have been individuals within British intelligence, who were convinced sooner than others. That is not contradictory.
Or consider this the comment from Sep 1, 1944 from A.J. Dew of the British Foreign Office: “In my opinion a disproportionate amount of the time of the Office is wasted on dealing with these wailing Jews.” (quoted in Gilbert, Auschwitz and the Allies). Does this sound like a man who was convinced of a mass extermination program? And that is not an isolated example. Gilbert also quotes another British official saying, “What is disturbing is the apparent readiness of the new Colonial Secretary to take Jewish Agency ‘sob-stuff’ at its face value. As a political maneouvre this will establish a good precedent which the Agency will no doubt exploit.”
That is an example of individual opinions on the reports. Some will have been more receptive than others.
You have suggested that there is a clear chronological division between the "knowledge" of the Jewish orgs and the British and American skepticism, but this is just not the case. Jewish groups started claiming "extermination" in mid-1942 even as we see the skepticism through to 1945 (and really it continued even after the war with earliest revisionists). By 1945 most influential persons seemed to accept the atrocity stories based largely on the films from Belsen etc.
You have provided evidence that Jewish groups were less sceptical about mass killing reports, than the British and Americans. The evidence is clear that, chronologically, Jewish groups were less sceptical from the start.
Regarding the ignorance of Jewish victims, this is an essential part of your story. If the Jewish victims knew, then their actions, in particular their lack of resistance, are difficult to explain. The whole concept of a fake shower/gas chamber implies that the victims would be unaware. If they were aware, you would not be able to pack them into the chamber. You would have a panic on your hands and would end up having to round up and shoot the scattering victims. To make this work, you have to assume that the international Jewish orgs knew what was going on but failed to warn the remaining Jews. How is this possible? It isn't. Communications were restricted, but it was not so tight that no information at all could be passed. The fake shower trick would not have worked for over three years on more than 3 million people.
Despite your scepticism, it appears the fake shower trick did work, over 3 years, on the c2.5 million people who were gassed. Though in many cases, it maybe did not work, but by then it was too late and it was a choice to be shot naked outside the gas chambers, or keep going inside to supposedly be showered. Despite rumours, Hungarian and Lodz Jews were gassed in their hundreds of thousands in 1944, in the last major actions. Being packed onto trains, heavily guarded, little chance of escape and then other Jews claiming showers, worked, till the end.
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Re: British Intelligence - war-time knowledge

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The fake shower trick 'worked', eh? Then why do so many 'eyewitnesses' claim jews told them they knew they were going to die, but, that the witness had to 'survive to tell the world...'?

How about all the jews that say they didn't get gassed when they too a shower ''cause the nazis didn't have no gas that day'?

How about the eyewitnesses who talk about jews (almost exclusively jewesses) giving orations about how evil the nazis were because they were going to gas them, before spitting in some nazi officers face? Then just, you know, walking into the gas chamber?

Apparently everybody knew Nessie, of course, 'with German methods' you could pack 5,000 of these jews into LK-1 anyway. I know because it was 'Proven at Nuremberg (tm)'.
were to guess why no t4 personnel were chosen to perform gassing that had experience with gassing, it would be because THERE WERE NONE.
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Re: British Intelligence - war-time knowledge

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Stubble wrote: Fri Jun 27, 2025 4:18 pm The fake shower trick 'worked', eh? Then why do so many 'eyewitnesses' claim jews told them they knew they were going to die, but, that the witness had to 'survive to tell the world...'?

How about all the jews that say they didn't get gassed when they too a shower ''cause the nazis didn't have no gas that day'?

How about the eyewitnesses who talk about jews (almost exclusively jewesses) giving orations about how evil the nazis were because they were going to gas them, before spitting in some nazi officers face? Then just, you know, walking into the gas chamber?
Knowledge about, and ability and desire to resist gassings, varied. Why do you find that so odd?
Apparently everybody knew Nessie, of course, 'with German methods' you could pack 5,000 of these jews into LK-1 anyway. I know because it was 'Proven at Nuremberg (tm)'.
If you learnt more about witnesses and our ability to estimate size, you would understand better. But understanding witnesses more, would mean you would lose much of your reasoning to disbelieve them.
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Re: British Intelligence - war-time knowledge

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Go look at the Auschwitz Album again, you've got half a dozen guys with the groups. They would have been easily overpowered and disarmed.

Looks like I need to start a thread on this, I don't want to detract from this thread in any way.

You posit 'Schrodinger's Awareness of the Holocaust', where the allies simultaneously both knew and didn't know.

Of note, the British knew that they 'made atrocity propaganda'...
Last edited by Stubble on Fri Jun 27, 2025 5:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
were to guess why no t4 personnel were chosen to perform gassing that had experience with gassing, it would be because THERE WERE NONE.
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Re: British Intelligence - war-time knowledge

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Stubble wrote: Fri Jun 27, 2025 4:37 pm Go look at the Auschwitz Album again, you've got half a dozen guys with the groups. They would have been easily overpowered and disarmed.

Looks like a need to start I thread on this, I don't want to detract from this thread in any way.

You posit 'Schrodinger's Awareness of the Holocaust', where the allies simultaneously both knew and didn't know.

Of note, the British knew that they 'made atrocity propaganda'...
Right. The story makes no sense unless you assume that secrecy was successfully maintained. Even if you want to pretend it would have been exclusively old women and babies and that resistance would have been unsuccessful, it is still a bit strange to say that people knowingly packed themselves at nearly 10 people per sq meter into a gas chamber, while also being UNRESTRAINED and massively outnumbering the guards.

Another oddity here is that they say that secrecy was maintained by having the Jewish Sonderkommando reassure people while they were in line waiting to be gassed. So then the story is that Jews themselves were majorly complicit in the extermination by helping sell the fake shower trick to their fellow Jews. And these Jewish collaborators like Dario Gabbai are considered heroes and brave survivors while Germans who admitted to doing bookkeeping at Auschwitz are considered war criminals.
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Re: British Intelligence - war-time knowledge

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Which is problematic when you have the 6,000,000 figure 'established' the day Germany surrendered (and before it, going all the way back to the rise of Hitler, which is, you know, rather odd).

Everyone had to both know and not know, simultaneously, and both points on that canvas are mutually exclusive and polar opposites.
were to guess why no t4 personnel were chosen to perform gassing that had experience with gassing, it would be because THERE WERE NONE.
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Re: British Intelligence - war-time knowledge

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Stubble wrote: Fri Jun 27, 2025 4:37 pm Go look at the Auschwitz Album again, you've got half a dozen guys with the groups. They would have been easily overpowered and disarmed.

Looks like I need to start a thread on this, I don't want to detract from this thread in any way.

You posit 'Schrodinger's Awareness of the Holocaust', where the allies simultaneously both knew and didn't know.

Of note, the British knew that they 'made atrocity propaganda'...
Awareness of and scepticism about the reports of mass murder by the Nazis, varied from person to person, as well as nation to nation, throughout the war. British intelligence were initially sceptical and their awareness was limited. By the end of the war, they were no longer sceptical and their awareness had greatly improved.
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Re: British Intelligence - war-time knowledge

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Stubble wrote: Fri Jun 27, 2025 5:02 pm Which is problematic when you have the 6,000,000 figure 'established' the day Germany surrendered (and before it, going all the way back to the rise of Hitler, which is, you know, rather odd).

Everyone had to both know and not know, simultaneously, and both points on that canvas are mutually exclusive and polar opposites.
The 6m figure had not been 'established' the day the Nazis surrendered. It was one of a number of figures that were used during the war, and it became the most commonly used figure, after it was used by Hoettl at Nuremberg.

Even then, there were historians and of course, the Soviets, who used different death tolls.
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Re: British Intelligence - war-time knowledge

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Nessie is so roundly checkmated its embarrassing to see him continue arguing.
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Re: British Intelligence - war-time knowledge

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Archie wrote: Fri Jun 27, 2025 12:38 pm It seems we have some contradictions here that we will need to resolve.

1) International Zionist groups not only "knew" about the Holocaust, they were able to calculate, as early as 1944, that six million Jews had been killed.

2) British and American diplomatic and intelligence circles do not seem to been convinced, with many being openly skeptical of Jewish claims of extermination. Even the more sympathetic reactions were usually vague.

3) Jews themselves were unaware to the extermination plan throughout the war and continued to fall for the fake shower trick for over three years. This would imply that although the Zionist orgs "knew" in 1942, they were unable to inform their own people. This includes the Hungarian Jews in 1944.
The "contradictions" largely evaporate when it is remembered that "international Zionist groups" did not control radio or air forces dropping leaflet propaganda, the British were largely in control of both as the BBC broadcast from the UK while the RAF and USAAF flew from there. The British had considerable influence over government-in-exile radio broadcasting, and were the only ones even trying with e.g. the Axis state of Hungary. Not only has the BBC Hungarian Service been criticised for inadequate broadcasts of warnings, but it's also been pointed out that the leading experts on Hungary in Britain like C.A. Macartney were less than interested in Hungarian Jews.

There were nonetheless two brief waves of British-endorsed broadcasting about the fate of the Jews, both in 1942, one in June 1942 around the Bund report, whose details can be observed as 'received' (if not always understood or digested) in the Netherlands, France and Poland. The other was around the UN Declaration of December 1942, which is also when some air-dropped leaflet propaganda was tried - in Germany not the occupied territories.

The December 1942 publicity stirred up an inconvenient public response in the UK, so the various organs of the British state including the Political Warfare Executive (dictating to the BBC as well as the governments-in-exile) backpedalled on further prominence for such reporting, suppressing or downplaying further reports from Poland including about Auschwitz in 1943. The British did not want to deal with millions of imaginary Jewish refugees descending via the Balkans and Turkey on Palestine, which further dictated the kick-into-touch behaviour at the Bermuda Conference and remained true into 1944. The British were not especially happy when FDR announced the foundation of the War Refugee Board, responding to delayed political pressures in the US.

Governments-in-exile including the Dutch and Free French have likewise been criticised for not foregrounding the issue, as has the Polish government-in-exile. The PGE did put out more news via their radio stations but this simply reinforced what was already circulating in Poland via the underground press, which filtered a fraction of what Poles were witnessing with their own eyes in hundreds of towns.

Inside Axis controlled Europe, censorship and control of official media channels (German etc radio and German controlled or Axis controlled press) was another factor. Jews were generally ordered to give up radios and had at best a censored press, which rapidly became irrelevant when deportations began on a large scale in Germany, Poland or elsewhere. News had to spread by word of mouth, couriers or in veiled form.

The 'contradictions' further evaporate when one considers the extent of channelling and coercion. Hungarian Jews in the provinces were evidently not hugely well informed but likely knew more about German atrocities than might be expected - e.g. any surviving Labour Serviceman might know of killings in the Soviet Union, there were some Polish Jewish refugees but these gravitated towards Budapest, and so on. The level of knowledge is irrelevant when the ghettoisation action unfolded practically overnight and caught essentially the entire Jewish population with very few opportunities to go to ground inside Hungary, unless one went from the provinces to Budapest. Then the ghettos were coerced onto trains which arrived under armed guard at Auschwitz into a barbed wire enclosed and guarded area for selection.

At the other extreme, over half of Norwegian Jews and 99% of Danish Jews could escape to Sweden, 75% of Jews in France evaded deportation, 80% of Italian Jews evaded deportation, well over half of Belgian Jews evaded deportation. Jews in Salonika in northern Greece were easily trapped, Jews in the south and Athens had more opportunities to escape.

The 'contradictions' forget that in Poland, the eastern part of the country saw the same type of ghetto 'Aktionen' but ending quite locally in mass graves in nearby forests where hundreds of thousands of Polish Jews were shot. The level of violence used in 1942-3 to eliminate ghettos did not vary so much; an ever increasing number would be killed insde the ghetto/town often when trying to hide (in bunkers, attics, etc), the rest were forced out to be marched to train stations or local killing sites. The degree of surprise mattered along with neutralising tactics beforehand (such as soliciting bribes or making false promises to Jewish councils, then launching an 'Aktion' anyway, or taking out potential leaders who might galvanise resistance). Even with all of this 10% made the attempt to flee although most were caught rapidly after an 'Aktion'. Up to 10% tried hiding 'on the spot' which was a doomed option for nearly all, ending mostly in violent death when grenades were thrown into cellars or those trying to hide were rousted and shot.

The Germans were also more effective in coercing and bribing the non-Jewish population to ensure that Jews did not escape, or were handed over, the longer things went on. This meant that they could tolerate some initial escapes if their cordons and encirclements were incomplete.

The chronology is quite clear that there were more escape attempts then more resistance the longer the whole thing went on into late 1942 and 1943. The escape attempts also affected the transports to the camps, while resistance also was more common for arriving transports at the camps, requiring more coercion at the arrival end, because more were fighting back (eg a transport from Grodno in late 1942 seeing a grenade thrown at Treblinka guards).

The overcrowded trains also caused some to suffocate to death, occasionally in their near-entirety, other times 25% dying. It would be difficult to claim that the deportees on the Kolomea-Belzec transport described here did not have some idea they were being sent to their deaths:
http://www.tenhumbergreinhard.de/taeter ... lomea.html

Selections at departure points holding back able-bodied men and women as workers together with the greater likelihood that such age groups would try fleeing meant the transports had a skewed profile. Existing leaders of Jewish councils were not infrequently killed ahead of deportations, but their profile was middle aged to elderly, they were not generally former Habsburg Army battalion commanders who could have organised anything. So the mass arrived largely leaderless, and with a heavy disproportion of the elderly, children and worried mothers. Selections on arrival recreated the same profile but on the Birkenau ramps.

Polish Jewish survivors report much greater prior knowledge of extermination if they arrived from the Government-General at Auschwitz. But they were just as channelled and coerced as any other group of new arrivals.

West European survivors report knowing essentially nothing. The ones deported had failed to escape and evade. There was no need to know precisely what would happen to consider deportation a very bad thing, so many had tried to escape regardless. But the number of reports reaching Jews in western Europe about killings was limited. By the time underground papers were publishing reports on Auschwitz in western Europe in late 1943, Jews in western Europe had long concluded they needed to go underground. So they would not necessarily have read such stories, or might not have connected them with Auschwitz-Birkenau - as was shown in surveying the full range of survivors from Belgium. Even the mid-1944 publicity for Auschwitz after the Vrba-Wetzler report seemingly broke the dam would not have translated to greater awareness, since so much else was going on in the news at the same time. Blink and you might miss a report, if one was even broadcast - and if you even had access to a radio. But what difference would that have made anyway? The Frank family had decided to go into hiding before Anne did hear about gassing in the summer of 1942, once they were caught their knowledge or lack thereof of Auschwitz would not help one iota on arrival at Birkenau.
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Re: British Intelligence - war-time knowledge

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HansHill wrote: Fri Jun 27, 2025 6:24 pm Nessie is so roundly checkmated its embarrassing to see him continue arguing.
How? I have presented evidence to show what wartime knowledge the British Intelligence service had. Gathering and presenting evidence is something so-called revisionists cannot do, which is why they fail as revisionists.
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