A New Revisionist Interpretation of Operation Reinhardt

[Nessie]

What we see from revisionists, is that none of them can provide any contemporaneous evidence from inside TII, the camp on the spur line to the Treblinka quarry and labour camp, to prove what happened there, during its operation. That lack of evidence leads them to speculation and opinion, and that is why they cannot agree on its function, and in Prudent Regret's case, he cannot even reach a logical conclusion.

Then we get claims it is proven there was no mass gassing at the camp and that it does not matter if mass transports east cannot be evidenced. This thread is more evidence that Holocaust revisionism is not history as it is normally investigated. As the thread title admits, it is an "interpretation" of events. It is not a new evidenced history of AR, it is a different opinion on what happened, and the various revisionist opinions on the camp's operation are like assholes, everyone has got one.

Historians have an agreed, primary evidenced history of the camp, from witnesses who worked inside, to documents specifically referring to the camp's operation, to archaeological and forensic site studies, to the circumstantial evidence of AR, along with motive, opportunity and conduct after the crime.

Anyone with common sense would see that the historical evidence is far greater than revisionist opinion.

[Nazgul]

Anyone with common sense would see that the historical evidence is far greater than revisionist opinion.

It is not opinion, it is fact and observation by witnesses nearby.
Marian Olszuk
In 1942-1943, the 'extermination camp' area was practically devoid of trees or large shrubbery. As a result, the neighbouring farm folk and passers-by could easily observe, through the barbed-wire fence, the prisoners and the guards as well as the various buildings of a camp that is now said to have been ultra-secret. From the perspective of someone facing the entrance to the camp, the Olszuk family farm was located a mile and a quarter to the left, while their plot lay, to the immediate right, 300 meters from the camp's eastern limit. Thus, Marian Olszuk passed close by the 'extermination camp' every day that he went to work at the quarry, and when he worked on the family plot, he was also right near the 'extermination camp.'...Even though, of course, he never entered the camp area, every day people gathered in groups outside the front gate, openly engaging in barter and black market dealing. ....Had Marian Olszuk ever noticed signs of homicidal activities by the Germans in this 'extermination camp?' His answer was No.
....Remarkably, after the 'liberation' of Poland and after the war, no administrative or police authority questioned him about what had taken place at Treblinka. After the war there were official commissions of inquiry, which issued extravagant reports, comparable to the Soviet report on Katyn (USSR-008). But none of those commissions ever asked the Olszuks to testify. All the same, the official camp guide, Marja Pisarek, coldly asserted in 1988 that "No one in the vicinity will talk to you". But Marian Olszuk, obviously, was able and willing to talk to us at length, and, unlike another Polish witness, clear-headedly. [1988] Treblinka: An Exceptional Guide By Dr. Robert Faurisson

Then we get claims it is proven there was no mass gassing at the camp and that it does not matter if mass transports east cannot be evidenced.

I am not satisfied that the numbers arrived in the quantity. The Fplo documents suggest by Hilberg have a link to labour camps for Jews (zwangarbeitslager für Juden); these have been misappropriated to give false evidence. If there were murder trains taking Jews to death camps, the schedules are not the Fplo. Find some schedules without extended stops at labour camps and railway junctions to other camps.

Anyone with common sense would see that the historical evidence is far greater than revisionist opinion.

Explain at RODOH on your board how you can see that the historical evidence is far greater than the revisionist opinion, given the necessary criteria.

If this was a criminal investigation Nessie is acting like he says he was, a plot, who can arrest on probable cause. The judiciary have a higher theshold, "beyond reasonable doubt". Most people
should have more than reasonable doubt, with the nonsense put forward as fact. You know, soap and shrunken heads. Most of the narrative is based "after the fact" and hysteria.

[Nessie]

Anyone with common sense would see that the historical evidence is far greater than revisionist opinion.

It is not opinion, it is fact and observation by witnesses nearby.
Marian Olszuk
In 1942-1943, the 'extermination camp' area was practically devoid of trees or large shrubbery. As a result, the neighbouring farm folk and passers-by could easily observe, through the barbed-wire fence, the prisoners and the guards as well as the various buildings of a camp that is now said to have been ultra-secret. From the perspective of someone facing the entrance to the camp, the Olszuk family farm was located a mile and a quarter to the left, while their plot lay, to the immediate right, 300 meters from the camp's eastern limit. Thus, Marian Olszuk passed close by the 'extermination camp' every day that he went to work at the quarry, and when he worked on the family plot, he was also right near the 'extermination camp.'...Even though, of course, he never entered the camp area, every day people gathered in groups outside the front gate, openly engaging in barter and black market dealing. ....Had Marian Olszuk ever noticed signs of homicidal activities by the Germans in this 'extermination camp?' His answer was No.
....Remarkably, after the 'liberation' of Poland and after the war, no administrative or police authority questioned him about what had taken place at Treblinka. After the war there were official commissions of inquiry, which issued extravagant reports, comparable to the Soviet report on Katyn (USSR-008). But none of those commissions ever asked the Olszuks to testify. All the same, the official camp guide, Marja Pisarek, coldly asserted in 1988 that "No one in the vicinity will talk to you". But Marian Olszuk, obviously, was able and willing to talk to us at length, and, unlike another Polish witness, clear-headedly. [1988] Treblinka: An Exceptional Guide By Dr. Robert Faurisson

Then we get claims it is proven there was no mass gassing at the camp and that it does not matter if mass transports east cannot be evidenced.

I am not satisfied that the numbers arrived in the quantity. The Fplo documents suggest by Hilberg have a link to labour camps for Jews (zwangarbeitslager für Juden); these have been misappropriated to give false evidence.

Anyone with common sense would see that the historical evidence is far greater than revisionist opinion.

Explain at RODOH on your board how you can see that the historical evidence is far greater than the revisionist opinion, given the necessary criteria.

You have cherry-picked one witness, which is a logical fallacy, as that distorts what is evidenced. The information provided by that witness is limited and crutially, it contains no information about transports, of people or clothing, so it does not support opinion that the camp did not receive mass transports of people, or that it did receive transports of clothing. Of course he was not going to notice homicidal activities at the camp, the Nazis were keeping that hidden. He did hear sounds of distress and smelt a terrible stench from the camp, which is consistent with maltreatment of prisoners and the mass graves and cremations.

That you are not satisfied with the evidence that TII received mass transports is just your opinion, and it is contradicted by multiple sources of evidence, witnesses and documents. Evidence is greater than opinion, in that it is a more reliable and credible determinant of outcome. Opinion is based and, in your case, logically flawed and lacking any relevant training or expertise.

[Nazgul]

That you are not satisfied with the evidence that TII received mass transports is just your opinion, and it is contradicted by multiple sources of evidence, witnesses and documents. Evidence is greater than opinion, in that it is a more reliable and credible determinant of outcome. Opinion is based and, in your case, logically flawed and lacking any relevant training or expertise.

It is a fact that the transports made extended stops at labour camps for Jews. The case that all those jews went to a single end point is not proven beyond reasonable doubt. In fact it is absurd to suggest it.

[Nessie]

That you are not satisfied with the evidence that TII received mass transports is just your opinion, and it is contradicted by multiple sources of evidence, witnesses and documents. Evidence is greater than opinion, in that it is a more reliable and credible determinant of outcome. Opinion is based and, in your case, logically flawed and lacking any relevant training or expertise.

It is a fact that the transports made extended stops at labour camps for Jews. The case that all those jews went to a single end point is not proven beyond reasonable doubt. In fact it is absurd to suggest it.

We have been over this repeatedly. You have no evidence people got off the trains to go to local camps. I produced evidence that the camps local to the stations were temporary places as local Jews were rounded up and they were then sent elsewhere, including TII, and the camps closed down before TII did. Every single witness on the transports speaks to no one getting off till they arrived at TII. All staff at TII speak to carriages packed full of people arriving. Local Poles who saw transports, speak to the carriages being full and any who attempted to get off was shot. The Fplo for the Warsaw shuttle train is specific that transports returned empty from TII, The Hofle Telegram evidences over 700,000 had arrived at the camp by the end of 1942. The Ganzenmueller Letter and Stroop Reports are about mass transports to the camp. No document references people getting off en route.

That is proof beyond all reasonable doubt, from corroborating evidence, from multiple independent sources and for you to suggest otherwise, is just another example of your opinion being absurd. You can repeat your opinion ad nauseam, it will not make it correct. For that, you need evidence.

[Nazgul]

That is proof beyond all reasonable doubt, from corroborating evidence, from multiple independent sources and for you to suggest otherwise, is just another example of your opinion being absurd. You can repeat your opinion ad nauseam, it will not make it correct. For that, you need evidence.

Asking for evidence when we are discussing evidence is a typical asinine Nessie colloquial cliche; a Nessism.
The Fplo scenario is a creation of Hilberg. If as you say there is corroborating evidence of the Fplo
transports going with all passengers to a single end point then produce it, a document. As mentioned by yourself, some have mentioned a one way ticket with no stops, no people getting off. If this is true then that is not the Fplo documents, which was used for all special transports, which invovles Jews transported around Poland and elsewhere. If it was where is the witness that said this is Fplo 675 or whatever, that sent us all to Treblinka, yet by a stroke of luck I was saved. We are discussing the evidence, which presented by the hoaxers does not meet the threshold, to send to say the prosecution service. Revisionists are not rewriting history but have serious doubts about the evidence people like yourself present; too many holes, too many falsehoods, exaggerations, manipulations and sequestering of evidence. There is no clear chain of evidence, too much contamination; much promulgated by yourself and the Klowns to say the least. To get around this, the Judiciary by law in many jurisdictions have taken 'res ipsa loquitur' ("the thing speaks for itself".) or self evident, the predicate is self evident, regardless of the material presented. This is also called "Judicial Notice", which are taken by most courts regarding holocaust related material.

[Nessie]

That is proof beyond all reasonable doubt, from corroborating evidence, from multiple independent sources and for you to suggest otherwise, is just another example of your opinion being absurd. You can repeat your opinion ad nauseam, it will not make it correct. For that, you need evidence.

Asking for evidence when we are discussing evidence is a typical asinine Nessie colloquial cliche; a Nessism.

When you claim the transports dropped people off at the stations shown on the Fplos and went to camps, I am asking for you to evidence that happening. We are not discussing evidence at that point, we are discussing your unevidenced theory.

The Fplo scenario is a creation of Hilberg. If as you say there is corroborating evidence of the Fplo
transports going with all passengers to a single end point then produce it.

I already have, on numerous occasions. Again, the evidence comes from

- Jewish witnesses on the trains
- Jewish workers and Nazi staff at TII
- Poles who lived next to the railways, or were working on them, on driving the transports
- multiple documents that record mass arrivals at TII.

As mentioned by yourself, some have mentioned a one way ticket with no stops, no people getting off. If this is true then that is not the Fplo documents, which was used for all special transports, which invovles Jews transported around Poland and elsewhere. If it was where is the witness that said this is Fplo 675 or whatever, that sent us all to Treblinka, yet by a stroke of luck I was saved. We are discussing the evidence, which presented by the hoaxers does not meet the threshold, to send to say the prosecution service.

Not true. Numerous trials have been conducted, that accepted the evidence of mass arrivals and killings at the AR camps. West, East and unified German and Polish prosecutors have all accepted the evidence as meeting the threshold.

Revisionists are not rewriting history...

No true. Revisionists have re-written the history of TII and claimed it as a transit camp, hygiene station, property sorting centre and customs stop.

.....but have serious doubts about the evidence people like yourself present; too many holes, too many falsehoods, exaggerations, manipulations and sequestering of evidence. There is no clear chain of evidence, too much contamination; much promulgated by yourself and the Klowns to say the least. To get around this, the Judiciary by law in many jurisdictions have taken 'res ipsa loquitur' ("the thing speaks for itself".) or self evident, the predicate is self evident, regardless of the material presented. This is also called "Judicial Notice", which are taken by most courts regarding holocaust related material.

You have just made all of that up, to deflect from revisionist inability to produce an evidenced history of events.

[Nazgul]

I already have, on numerous occasions. Again, the evidence comes from

- Jewish witnesses on the trains
- Jewish workers and Nazi staff at TII
- Poles who lived next to the railways, or were working on them, on driving the transports
- multiple documents that record mass arrivals at TII.

That is fine, I supported you in this. However, link these to specific Fplo documents. Hard evidence please, not some link to web site that uses them.

Not true. Numerous trials have been conducted, that accepted the evidence of mass arrivals and killings at the AR camps. West, East and unified German and Polish prosecutors have all accepted the evidence as meeting the threshold.

Using 'Judicial Notice'. They only seek culpability of the defendent; the trial is not to discuss the other factors, that is taken in the context as "Judicial Notice"

[Nessie]

I already have, on numerous occasions. Again, the evidence comes from

- Jewish witnesses on the trains
- Jewish workers and Nazi staff at TII
- Poles who lived next to the railways, or were working on them, on driving the transports
- multiple documents that record mass arrivals at TII.

That is fine, I supported you in this. However, link these to specific Fplo documents. Hard evidence please, not some link to web site that uses them.

Link to the Fplos here:

https://rodoh.info/thread/382/tii-transport-records

You participated in that thread, so you know about those documents. Stop pretending we have not already discussed this on numerous occasions.

Not true. Numerous trials have been conducted, that accepted the evidence of mass arrivals and killings at the AR camps. West, East and unified German and Polish prosecutors have all accepted the evidence as meeting the threshold.

Using 'Judicial Notice'. They only seek culpability of the defendent; the trial is not to discuss the other factors, that is taken in the context as "Judicial Notice"

Wrong, those trials included witness evidence from Jewish prisoners, as the prosecution sought to get convictions over the defence claim of acting under duress, which worked for the Belzec trial. The West German prosecution had to prove that gassings had happened.

[Nazgul]

Link to the Fplos here:

https://rodoh.info/thread/382/tii-transport-records

You participated in that thread, so you know about those documents. Stop pretending we have not already discussed this on numerous occasions.

This is not satisfactory, these are the same Fplo documents that have been discussed numerous times. The Treblinka timeline merely correlates Fplo with certain events, no other evidence. There is no direct evidence linking those events to the trains and specific Fplo. Either way in all those documents there were extended stops at the sites of major Jewish Labour organizations, whether it be Schmelt, Todt or private; some SS run. The final destination could well have been the Arbeitslager Treblinka 1. It cannot be a coincidence on all Fplo that the only sites stopped were major railway junctions or Jewish work places. There were many other large towns, cities with stations where no labour camps existed, yet the transports did not stop at these places. They only stopped at labour camps or junctions to other labour camps, no doubt the rear carriages removed from the train and picked up by another one some time later.

Wrong, those trials included witness evidence from Jewish prisoners, as the prosecution sought to get convictions over the defence claim of acting under duress, which worked for the Belzec trial. The West German prosecution had to prove that gassings had happened.

Only one defendent was found guilty, Josef Oberhauser: "Accessory to 300,000 cases (charged with 450,000) of collective murder and five other crimes of aiding and abetting collective murder in each of 150 cases" the rest were acquitted.

Amongst the four attempted murders, the excessive actions included the shooting at an old woman carried out by Gomerski with a submachine gun at close range.

This is 14F13. There is no mention of gassing as you mention. If you wish to discuss specific trials please get the full trial transcript, instead of relying on innuendo. We do not want 'fake news".

The Belzec trial as most others, it was taken as Judicial Notice that mass murder occurred. The defendents were tried on their involvement, just being there would be sufficient.

[Nessie]

Nazgul, repeating your assertions is ad nauseam. Until you can evidence, with witnesses or other documents, that people got off at the stations indicated in the Fplos that terminated at Treblinka, then there is no point in me showing you the evidence that did not happen, again and again.

[Nazgul]

Nazgul, repeating your assertions is ad nauseam. Until you can evidence, with witnesses or other documents, that people got off at the stations indicated in the Fplos that terminated at Treblinka, then there is no point in me showing you the evidence that did not happen, again and again.

As mentioned out of all the towns and cities, the transports only stopped at Jewish Labour workplaces or railway junctions to other similar places. They did not stop at the multitude of other towns without Jewish camps. Many people got off at the camps by train, such as Alec Cohen from Sobibor; their transports must have had Fplo documents, no different to the ones cited by yourself. It is also a fact that somehow all of these other Fplo documents have gone missing. At Treblinka there was another Labour camps and two labour camps for Jews just like all the other places stopped.

[Nessie]

Nazgul, repeating your assertions is ad nauseam. Until you can evidence, with witnesses or other documents, that people got off at the stations indicated in the Fplos that terminated at Treblinka, then there is no point in me showing you the evidence that did not happen, again and again.

As mentioned out of all the towns and cities, the transports only stopped at Jewish Labour workplaces or railway junctions to other similar places. They did not stop at the multitude of other towns without Jewish camps. Many people got off at the camps by train, such as Alec Cohen from Sobibor; their transports must have had Fplo documents, no different to the ones cited by yourself. It is also a fact that somehow all of these other Fplo documents have gone missing. At Treblinka there was another Labour camps and two labour camps for Jews just like all the other places stopped.

https://sobiborinterviews.nl/en/dutch-s ... elie-cohen

"Op 17 March 1943 Elie (Alex) Cohen, aged 37, from Groningen, his wife and their child were put on a transport from Westerbork to Sobibor. The train reached its final destination three days later."

No mention of stops and people getting off during the journey.

[Nazgul]

No mention of stops and people getting off during the journey.

"In 1943, mainly Jewish and non-Jewish Poles were brought to Lublin-Majdanek. After three months, Cohen was transferred to the Skarzysko-Kamienna labor camp, southwest of Lublin."

Skarzysko-Kamienna labor camp is mentioned in one of the Fplo documents you posted. This is proof that people got off at the camps. Train was the only transport in those day for longer distances.

[Nessie]

No mention of stops and people getting off during the journey.

"In 1943, mainly Jewish and non-Jewish Poles were brought to Lublin-Majdanek. After three months, Cohen was transferred to the Skarzysko-Kamienna labor camp, southwest of Lublin."

Skarzysko-Kamienna labor camp is mentioned in one of the Fplo documents you posted. This is proof that people got off at the camps. Train was the only transport in those day for longer distances.

That was after leaving Sobibor.

"He and the other selected men were herded back onto the train and transported to the Lublin-Majdanek camp."

Then after 3 months, he went to Skarzysko-Kamiennna. You have failed to follow the basic chronology. That is not evidence of trains stopping between Westerbork and Sobibor to let people off.