The CODOH Revisionist Forum

[Split from Hitler Biographies thread]

Nazgul wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2024 9:52 am It was the Bolshevik Jews they were fighting, trying to save Europe. Even Putin admitted the majority of the early Bolshevik movement were Juden.

"Putin said" isn't really a historical argument.

May be true but it is a fact.

Nazgul wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2024 9:52 am It was the Bolshevik Jews they were fighting, trying to save Europe. Even Putin admitted the majority of the early Bolshevik movement were Juden. Sadly in a war of annihilation the worst of people comes to the fore.

Couple things;
1) Putin didn’t say the majority of the movement were Jews. He said the majority of the first government were Jews. But it’s not clear which institution(s) he was referring to in making this case. If he meant the Politburo, then he was correct in that four of the seven were Jewish.* That Politburo lasted until just a few weeks after the Bolshevik seizure of power.
2) By the time Hitler invaded the Soviet Union, there was exactly one powerful Jew in the USSR: Lazar Kaganovich. Most of the formerly powerful Jews were not only out of power but dead.
3) Jews never made up a majority of the Bolshevik membership. If you’re looking for parties with big Jewish pluralities or majorities, look at the Mensheviks, the left SRs, and the Jewish parties. But those parties were also gone by 1941, thoroughly purged decades earlier and their leaders murdered in the Great Terror if they were not in exile.

————

*Kamenev was half Jewish on his father’s side, which made him Jewish per Soviet nationality laws but not Jewish according to Jewish law. He was not raised Jewish and did not identify as such.

Numar Patru wrote: ↑Tue Nov 19, 2024 3:24 am
1) Putin didn’t say the majority of the movement were Jews. He said the majority of the first government were Jews. But it’s not clear which institution(s) he was referring to in making this case. If he meant the Politburo, then he was correct in that four of the seven were Jewish.* That Politburo lasted until just a few weeks after the Bolshevik seizure of power.

He said:
'Russian President Vladimir Putin said that at least 80 percent of the members of the first Soviet government were Jewish.

“I thought about something just now: The decision to nationalize this library was made by the first Soviet government, whose composition was 80-85 percent Jewish,” Putin said June 13 during a visit to Moscow’s Jewish Museum and Tolerance Center...Widely seen as the first Soviet government, the Council of People’s Commissars was formed in 1917 and comprised 16 leaders. Times of Israel

2) By the time Hitler invaded the Soviet Union, there was exactly one powerful Jew in the USSR: Lazar Kaganovich. Most of the formerly powerful Jews were not only out of power but dead.

Obviously the Germans had a different opinion.

If by “different,” you mean “wrong,” then sure.

Also, you can find the members of the Council of Peoples’ Commissar easily online. The only Jews on that council was Trotsky.

Numar Patru wrote: ↑Tue Nov 19, 2024 7:32 pm If by “different,” you mean “wrong,” then sure.

Also, you can find the members of the Council of Peoples’ Commissar easily online. The only Jews on that council was Trotsky.

Not according to Putin.

Bolshevism wasn't majority Jewish. It didn't hate Jews either, that's totally made up by right-wing Jews and Trotskyites. There never was institutional antisemitism in the USSR. Both extreme sides are wrong. What's undeniable is that the percentage of Jews in socialist movements exceeded the percentage of Jews living in Russia, something Lenin himself wrote about.

Judeo-Bolshevism was only something propagated by the NSDAP to win votes. Hitler didn't care about it as long as it won him votes. It was enough to get the right amount of people going.

Nazgul wrote: ↑Tue Nov 19, 2024 10:22 pm

Numar Patru wrote: ↑Tue Nov 19, 2024 7:32 pm If by “different,” you mean “wrong,” then sure.

Also, you can find the members of the Council of Peoples’ Commissar easily online. The only Jews on that council was Trotsky.

Not according to Putin.

Putin’s wrong. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_o ... Commissars

Two important articles on this topic:

https://fascio.substack.com/p/judeo-bol ... a-response

https://fascio.substack.com/p/reaffirmi ... evism-part

According to the Jewish Telegraphic Agency:

But the facts also reaffirm in essence assertions like the ones made by Mark Weber, a promoter of Holocaust denial. In 2003, he wrote, “Although officially Jews have never made up more than five percent of the country’s total population, they played a highly disproportionate and probably decisive role in the infant Bolshevik regime,” adding this was a “taboo” that many historians for decades preferred to ignore.

https://www.jta.org/2017/11/06/global/w ... ll-picture

The article clarifies misconceptions on the other side as well. This isn't an article trying to promote the "Judeo-Bolshevism" narrative to say the least.

From On the Eve: The Jews of Europe Before the Second World War by Bernard Wasserstein

According to Sheila Fitzpatrick, who has examined the log of official visitors to Stalin’s office in the 1930s, between 75 and 90 percent of these callers had Jewish names.

This indicates that regardless of how many Jews occupied "official positions", they clearly had significant influence regardless.

It should also be noted that when looking at statistics of Soviet Jews in the government, it's really just a matter of what they put down their nationality as. So if a Jew puts down "Russian" they will be counted as Russian and not Jewish. So the exact numbers are going to be hard to nail down. How many of them changed their names to hide their Jewish background is also unknown.

Primary sources on Judeo-Bolshevism:

https://archive.org/details/karl-radl-p ... revolution

There is of course more to be said on this, but that's what I got for now.

Cool sources, bro