What is the revisionist account of where the jews went?

[Numar Patru]

Also,

the other 1 million would be a disguise to indicate that it was the Soviets who evacuated them

Fucking what?

[TlsMS93]

A little over 1 million people in these vast areas controlled by the military were nothing special and I doubt very much that the Germans were interested in their fates as Goebbels said in his diary, tragic from a legal point of view but less so than deliberately killing them themselves with their own hands and ingenuity that defies several fields of science.

It is also worth making it clear that regions within the Reichskomissariat said to have been free of Jews in these reports of suspicious actions, were discovered by other sources that there were existing Jewish communities as in the case against von Mainstein.

[Numar Patru]

A little over 1 million people in these vast areas controlled by the military were nothing special and I doubt very much that the Germans were interested in their fates as Goebbels said in his diary, tragic from a legal point of view but less so than deliberately killing them themselves with their own hands and ingenuity that defies several fields of science.

So shot, as I said. And indeed as many Jews in that area had already been by the time Reinhard began.

Let's recap, then: It's your contention that 1.2 million Jews were sent to the Reinhard camps and then sent where?

[TlsMS93]

This is not my claim, but rather based on two official German documents already discussed here. There were Western Jews in the territories occupied by the Germans, and according to exterminationist logic, they should have barely passed Birkenau onwards. We will never know how many more were there, but they were there, for what reason, motive or circumstance?

But for you, it is easier to support a conspiracy of extermination and cover-up when everything conspires against this cover-up for reasons already discussed in the old forum, in the Codoh articles about the amount of materials that were not at hand and the vast amount of excuses without scientific proof to get around this problem, such as corpses cremating corpses, fat being collected, wooden cigarette boxes for bodies, and so on.

[Numar Patru]

We will never know how many more were there, but they were there, for what reason, motive or circumstance?

You tell me, smart guy? Why would the Nazis send all those Jews from France, the Netherlands, Belgium, Italy, Hungary, Romania, etc., to Auschwitz?

[TlsMS93]

We will never know how many more were there, but they were there, for what reason, motive or circumstance?

You tell me, smart guy? Why would the Nazis send all those Jews from France, the Netherlands, Belgium, Italy, Hungary, Romania, etc., to Auschwitz?

You tell me, why were only 9 percent of French Jews deported based on the Wannsee Protocol demographics?

Wolfgang Benz’s Dimension des Völkermords, with the Wannsee Protocol Jewish population figures, shows that the deportation rate was 0 percent for Finland, 8 percent for Denmark, 12 percent for Romania, 15 percent for Italy and 24 percent for Bulgaria. The deportation rate for Hungary was 59 percent.

According to Dimension, just over one million Jews (1,069,000) were deported from Western and Southern Europe to camps in Poland. Compared to the Wannsee Protocol population figures, this would mean a deportation rate of 39 percent overall (1,069,000 out of 2,725,000).

Why did the elderly Jewish “useless mouths” from Denmark go to Terezin instead of Auschwitz?

The Wannsee Protocol notes that from the Nazi Machtübernahme until the end of 1941, 537,000 Jews legally emigrated from Germany, Austria and Bohemia-Moravia, which would be no less than 68 percent of the total Jewish population in that area. This emigration took place mainly in peacetime and without any forced mass transportations by freight trains.

You only rely on transportation lists to determine death tolls, which is absurd, but you should first clarify these aberrations if a policy of extermination was really going on.

[Numar Patru]

See if you can try to make one point at a time, because I have absolutely no idea the point you're trying to make.

For instance, you write:

Wolfgang Benz’s Dimension des Völkermords, with the Wannsee Protocol Jewish population figures, shows that the deportation rate was 0 percent for Finland, 8 percent for Denmark, 12 percent for Romania, 15 percent for Italy and 24 percent for Bulgaria. The deportation rate for Hungary was 59 percent.

So fucking what? These deportations happened (or didn't) under wildly different circumstances. Finland refused to deport its Jews. Denmark managed to send most of its Jewish population to Sweden -- sort of a famous story. Bulgaria refused to deport Jews with Bulgarian citizenship. The deportation of Hungarian Jews was undertaken directly by the Nazis themselves when they occupied the country.

I'd need to see the specifics for Romania, but many Romanian Jews were deported under the Hungarian Aktion since there was a territorial shift under the Second Vienna Award. Others were killed in Romania and never deported at all.

The only thing I can conclude from that paragraph is that you either don't know the history that you're denying at all or that you think because different percentages of Jews were deported from different places, there must be something amiss -- and if you believe that, then you simply don't have even a basic level of knowledge about how the occupation of Europe unfolded during the war.

[TlsMS93]

What I do know is that no European country was considered judenfrei and that if there was intentional killing of Jews, they were handpicked because they left millions untouched. Which leads me to conclude that Jewish casualties were orders of magnitude lower than alleged and that the circumstances of these casualties were a result of the war situation.

As of January 1984, there were 4.39 million successful individual restitution claims under the German Federal Compensation Act (BEG) of 1953 and 1956. This law provides monetary compensation to individuals who were “persecuted for political, racial, religious or ideological reasons” by the German government during the war. The vast majority of these successful restitution claims were from Jews. Raul Hilberg estimated that about two-thirds of the permitted claims were from Jews. Using Hilberg’s conservative estimate would mean that over 2.9 million Jews had received BEG restitution by January 1984.

The figure of 2.9 million Jewish claimants underestimates the number of Jews who survived World War II because, as of 1985, Jews in Poland, the Soviet Union, Hungary, Romania, and Czechoslovakia were not allowed by their governments to apply for or receive BEG restitution. Furthermore, some European Jews who survived World War II died before the German BEG restitution law was enacted in 1953. The Atlanta Journal and Constitution estimated that only half of the Jewish “Holocaust survivors” worldwide in 1985 received restitution under the BEG. If this 50% estimate is accurate, it would mean that approximately 5.8 million European Jews survived German persecution during World War II.

“If everyone who claims to be a Holocaust survivor is actually a Holocaust survivor, who did Hitler kill?”

Norman Finkelstein quoting his mother

[Numar Patru]

First of all, when you're quoting someone else, you should at a bare minimum say so and preferably put quoted material within quotation marks with a citation of some kind. I'd have failed you in coursework for your post because it plagiarizes.

Where I got really suspicious was this claim:

The Atlanta Journal and Constitution estimated that only half of the Jewish “Holocaust survivors” worldwide in 1985 received restitution under the BEG. If this 50% estimate is accurate, it would mean that approximately 5.8 million European Jews survived German persecution during World War II.

I called bullshit on that one in my head so I dug up the article itself from the Atlanta Journal Constitution, which (thankfully) John Wear (the actual author of your post) provided in his footnotes. It turns out Wear is lying as usual. The AJC says half of American Holocaust survivors were receiving restitution under the BEG. Further, the article gives the number of American survivors: 110,000.

Wanna try again?

[TlsMS93]

I intersperse my reasoning by inserting parts of revisionist articles. I am not plagiarizing anyone here, at the very least I should insert quotation marks around the quote, which I will do from now on.

Even if John Wear's interpretation of the 5.8 million is based solely on American Jews, 2.9 million Jews receiving compensation decades after the event indicates that even before that there would have been many more who ended up dying, apart from those countries that did not allow their Jewish citizens to be part of this. This in a Europe controlled by the Nazis where they never had 4 million under their control.

I am still waiting for an answer, which European country was declared judenfrei? Citing the Baltic countries based on the action reports does not answer since not even orthodoxy believes that they were completely free of Jews. The average Jewish death toll even in the exterminationist thesis is 55%, which means that the Nazis hid their faces for 45% of the Jews, if we trust the demographic data of the Jewish population in Europe.

[TlsMS93]

Also,

the other 1 million would be a disguise to indicate that it was the Soviets who evacuated them

Fucking what?

In his conclusions, for example, Korherr wrote that the Jewish population losses in Europe from 1933 to 1943 (about 5 million) were caused by emigration to other continents to about 50%, but his statistics only mention about 1.5 million emigrants. So about 1 million emigrants are missing. This contradiction would be explained by the fact that 1 million were evacuated along with the Soviets and that Himmler did not want to present this fact to Hitler and asked Korherr to disguise it.

I took this explanation from Rudolf's analysis of the Korherr Report using Stephen Challen as help.

http://holocausthandbooks.com/book/diss ... holocaust/

[Numar Patru]

Even if John Wear's interpretation of the 5.8 million is based solely on American Jews, 2.9 million Jews receiving compensation decades after the event indicates that even before that there would have been many more who ended up dying, apart from those countries that did not allow their Jewish citizens to be part of this. This in a Europe controlled by the Nazis where they never had 4 million under their control.

So much wrong here.
1) You can't just assume that because half of American survivors (who made up a rather small percentage of the number of survivors overall -- remember, the AJC said 110,000 in total in 1985) received reparations that half of all survivors everywhere else. Certainly the rate receiving reparations was higher in Israel because that country's government directly negotiated the reparations agreement. But elsewhere, there could be numerous obstacles.
2) There were 3 million Jews in prewar Poland and 5 million in the prewar USSR alone. Even if half all of those Jews somehow escaped, which is ridiculous and not borne out by anything remotely resembling evidence, that would still leave 4 million Jews under Nazi control in just those two countries alone, to say nothing of Jews in Hungary, France, the Low Countries, and the Reich itself.

I am still waiting for an answer, which European country was declared judenfrei? Citing the Baltic countries based on the action reports does not answer since not even orthodoxy believes that they were completely free of Jews.

You seem to think that, because there were survivors, there could not have been a genocide. You realize that's not the legal standard for genocide, right? Armenians will still alive in Anatolia in 1918. Tutus run Rwanda today.

The average Jewish death toll even in the exterminationist thesis is 55%, which means that the Nazis hid their faces for 45% of the Jews, if we trust the demographic data of the Jewish population in Europe.

Of all the Jews in Europe per the Wannsee Protocol, yes, 55%. But as you know, much of Column B of that census info never fell under Nazi control. It's important to see how many Jews the Nazis actually had under their control at the height of its power and then calculate the percentage who died on that basis, not when including Jews in countries who were never in danger, such as those in the UK, Portugal, Finland, and Spain.

[Numar Patru]

In his conclusions, for example, Korherr wrote that the Jewish population losses in Europe from 1933 to 1943 (about 5 million) were caused by emigration to other continents to about 50%, but his statistics only mention about 1.5 million emigrants. So about 1 million emigrants are missing. This contradiction would be explained by the fact that 1 million were evacuated along with the Soviets and that Himmler did not want to present this fact to Hitler and asked Korherr to disguise it.

Please identify the relevant lines from report here:

https://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic ... 811089e651

[TlsMS93]

In 1933, there were around 5.5 million Jews in Europe, excluding the USSR. This number was even confirmed by the American Jewish Conference in a report from 1945. 1 million of these came to live under Soviet jurisdiction, living behind the Curzon Line in 1939. Around half of them managed to escape to the interior of Russia after June 22, 1941. From these 5 million, the 400,000 who lived in allied or neutral countries in 1942 are subtracted. This would leave 4.5 million, but since 1933, around 1.5 million Jews have emigrated from the Reich and other European countries to other continents. Based on the Korherr Report, we arrive at the figure of 3 million Jews who were in fact in German possession. Of these, 1.5 million were still in Europe after the war, hence the revisionist figures of a maximum of 1.5 million Jewish victims during the war. We cannot conclude anything about Jews in the USSR who were victims of German policy. To blindly trust the reports of actions that were taken by the Soviets when they entered Berlin is naive, to say the least. They did not have time to destroy this incriminating evidence, including those in the possession of ministers like Baldur von Schirach, and even the Allied judges were surprised by how vague these documents were.

There was an authority from the Anti-Fascist Committee who declared that 5 million Jews still lived in the USSR in 1943, at a time when the Germans were already withdrawing from the country.

[TlsMS93]

In his conclusions, for example, Korherr wrote that the Jewish population losses in Europe from 1933 to 1943 (about 5 million) were caused by emigration to other continents to about 50%, but his statistics only mention about 1.5 million emigrants. So about 1 million emigrants are missing. This contradiction would be explained by the fact that 1 million were evacuated along with the Soviets and that Himmler did not want to present this fact to Hitler and asked Korherr to disguise it.

Please identify the relevant lines from report here:

https://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic ... 811089e651

I will refrain from going into detail about this report because there is already too much revisionist material on this topic. I ask you to analyze the flaws and bring them here as a counterpoint.