Pilpul Activities on the CODOH Forum

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Wetzelrad
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Re: Pilpul Activities on the CODOH Forum

Post by Wetzelrad »

ConfusedJew wrote: Mon May 12, 2025 1:30 am I'm not sure what your point is exactly. I went to Dachau and they didn't try to present it as a gas chamber that was used for mass extermination like the other ones. That exact newspaper clipping that you mentioned was factually accurate although maybe you didn't present the full context.
Is the reason you can't understand the point because you've forgotten your own posts upthread, or are you being deliberately obtuse? I will restate it once again: If a "conspiracy" of people can and did lie about gassings at Dachau then it is plausible at the very least to say the same of Auschwitz.

That is also not a newspaper clipping and I didn't post it.
ConfusedJew wrote: Mon May 12, 2025 1:30 am Even if you were correct in that people said the wrong thing, do you think that immediately after the war, people will instantly have the entire body of facts in their accurate form? It would be way more suspicious if there were no inaccuracies.
I would expect witnesses to have the best recall of what they witnessed in the immediate aftermath, yet we've discovered many Holocaust witnesses lied in the immediate aftermath. They told outright fabrications, not inaccuracies. Moreover, if the US Army (and the IMT and the Senate and the papers) did not have the entire body of facts, or in fact any evidence at all, then they should not have made egregious accusations, as they did in Dachau.
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ConfusedJew
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Re: Pilpul Activities on the CODOH Forum

Post by ConfusedJew »

Wetzelrad wrote: Mon May 12, 2025 3:26 am
ConfusedJew wrote: Mon May 12, 2025 1:27 am Yes I mentioned there are exceptions but they are very rare. In this case, the survivor was adopted by a different family because he lost all of his birth family and he wouldn't be able to connect with his extended birth family without DNA because the records were lost.

Using this as an example is strange because it demonstrates that the Holocaust did actually happen?
You are very hard to take seriously. When presented with evidence directly contrary to your claims you double down. DNA evidence has done exactly the thing you claim that "we aren't seeing" and that is "very rare". Not only has it happened repeatedly, but these incidents were deemed so remarkable that they made it into news broadcasts. Isn't it rather atypical for a family reunion to make it into the news? Thus we are assured that these many incidents are just the tip of the iceberg.
These DNA reunion stories are moving, but their rarity is exactly why they make headlines. Finding a long-lost cousin doesn’t mean the rest of the family survived. Even when long lost survivors are reunited, many of these cases still involve the deaths of dozens of relatives.

Projects like the DNA Reunion Project exist because these discoveries are exceptional, not routine. If they were common, they wouldn’t be news. You are hyper focusing on isolated cases and trying to generalize about the entire population of 6 million Jews. If you are being serious, the math doesn't even come close to working. This is cherry picking in the extreme.
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Re: Pilpul Activities on the CODOH Forum

Post by ConfusedJew »

Wetzelrad wrote: Mon May 12, 2025 3:36 am Is the reason you can't understand the point because you've forgotten your own posts upthread, or are you being deliberately obtuse? I will restate it once again: If a "conspiracy" of people can and did lie about gassings at Dachau then it is plausible at the very least to say the same of Auschwitz.

That is also not a newspaper clipping and I didn't post it.
There was a gas chamber in Dachau. What did they say that was factually inaccurate?
ConfusedJew wrote: Mon May 12, 2025 1:30 am Even if you were correct in that people said the wrong thing, do you think that immediately after the war, people will instantly have the entire body of facts in their accurate form? It would be way more suspicious if there were no inaccuracies.
I would expect witnesses to have the best recall of what they witnessed in the immediate aftermath, yet we've discovered many Holocaust witnesses lied in the immediate aftermath. They told outright fabrications, not inaccuracies. Moreover, if the US Army (and the IMT and the Senate and the papers) did not have the entire body of facts, or in fact any evidence at all, then they should not have made egregious accusations, as they did in Dachau.
You are making massive generalizations without providing any evidence. With hundreds of thousands of survivors and tens of thousands who gave testimonies, if you found hundreds of inaccuracies and even dozens of people who lied, which is an extremely high bar to prove, does not suggest that all survivors were lying. Like to prove that all these witnesses were lying, you can't just show a few that are, you need to prove it on a massive scale for your argument to work.
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Wetzelrad
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Re: Pilpul Activities on the CODOH Forum

Post by Wetzelrad »

ConfusedJew wrote: Mon May 12, 2025 3:44 am These DNA reunion stories are moving, but their rarity is exactly why they make headlines.
I see, so if we "aren't seeing" headlines then DNA reunions are rare, but if we do see headlines then they are also rare. This conclusion cannot be falsified.
ConfusedJew wrote: Mon May 12, 2025 3:44 amFinding a long-lost cousin doesn’t mean the rest of the family survived. Even when long lost survivors are reunited, many of these cases still involve the deaths of dozens of relatives.
Of course, but it also doesn't mean the rest of the family was executed. In several of these cases family members could well have survived the war and died of old age. We're talking about octogenarians or older.
ConfusedJew wrote: Mon May 12, 2025 3:44 amProjects like the DNA Reunion Project exist because these discoveries are exceptional, not routine. If they were common, they wouldn’t be news.
To the contrary, its existence proves the phenomenon is consistent and not rare.
ConfusedJew wrote: Mon May 12, 2025 3:44 amYou are hyper focusing on isolated cases and trying to generalize about the entire population of 6 million Jews. If you are being serious, the math doesn't even come close to working. This is cherry picking in the extreme.
I am neither hyperfocusing nor cherrypicking nor generalizing 6 million Jews but merely responding to your several broad claims about what you personally think should be true with the most obvious and accessible evidence contrary to that. It's not actually my job to catalogue every reunited Jew to satisfy you. It's enough just to see that the phenomenon is common enough that it's easy to find.
ConfusedJew wrote: Mon May 12, 2025 3:49 am There was a gas chamber in Dachau. What did they say that was factually inaccurate?
This really is just pilpul. You could start by responding to what's already been written upthread.
ConfusedJew wrote: Mon May 12, 2025 3:49 amLike to prove that all these witnesses were lying, you can't just show a few that are, you need to prove it on a massive scale for your argument to work.
No, because only a relatively small number of witnesses were direct eyewitnesses. The rest merely heard rumors and things of that nature. It is the direct eyewitnesses who matter, and it is they who have issues with lying and credibility. For example, Blaha testified that there were gassings at Dachau and that he was involved in one. The Dachau Museum says the "gas chamber" was never used, meaning they consider Blaha not credible. The Dachau Museum did not concern itself with what the thousands of other inmates said about gassing because none of them claimed to have seen or participated in it.
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Re: Pilpul Activities on the CODOH Forum

Post by ConfusedJew »

Wetzelrad wrote: Mon May 12, 2025 4:53 am I see, so if we "aren't seeing" headlines then DNA reunions are rare, but if we do see headlines then they are also rare. This conclusion cannot be falsified.
A small percent of DNA reunions are expected. Unless you make a statistically sound argument, copying even 50 articles, won't prove anything.
Of course, but it also doesn't mean the rest of the family was executed. In several of these cases family members could well have survived the war and died of old age. We're talking about octogenarians or older.
Again, why was he separated from his family as a young child?
To the contrary, its existence proves the phenomenon is consistent and not rare.
No it doesn't. You misused the word consistent here. The existence of an organization shows that these things do happen but it doesn't show that they are common. Common relative to what? The 6 million Jews that disappeared?
I am neither hyperfocusing nor cherrypicking nor generalizing 6 million Jews but merely responding to your several broad claims about what you personally think should be true with the most obvious and accessible evidence contrary to that. It's not actually my job to catalogue every reunited Jew to satisfy you. It's enough just to see that the phenomenon is common enough that it's easy to find.
Using random anecdotes from the internet is the perfect example of cherry picking. You have shown that it happens, why I acknowledged before you mentioned it. If you want to make a statistical argument, then do the math if you can.
No, because only a relatively small number of witnesses were direct eyewitnesses. The rest merely heard rumors and things of that nature. It is the direct eyewitnesses who matter, and it is they who have issues with lying and credibility. For example, Blaha testified that there were gassings at Dachau and that he was involved in one. The Dachau Museum says the "gas chamber" was never used, meaning they consider Blaha not credible. The Dachau Museum did not concern itself with what the thousands of other inmates said about gassing because none of them claimed to have seen or participated in it.
A relatively small amount of survivors directly saw people being gassed because those who saw it were killed. Of the 1.3 million people who were deported to Auschwitz, only 7,000 were alive when the Soviets arrive and very few Sonderkommando survived. So you are right that a relatively small number of people directly witnessed the operations of the gas chamber, but this was by design.

With respect to direct survivors, there were tens of thousands who were interned in concentration camps and saw deportations, the selections on arrival platforms, mass graves, executions, and crematoria smoke with the scent of burning bodies.

When the Soviets arrived, they saw and photographed piles of corpses, emaciated survivors, warehouses filled with shoes, hair, suitcases, prosthetic limbs, and partially destroyed gas chambers.

Why did the Nazis try to destroy the gas chambers and crematoria? How do you write off the discovery of piles of bodies and emaciated prisoners? There is so much evidence out there that you have to really dismantle so many different things and yet I haven't seen any compelling arguments other than a few minor things that are cherry picked.
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Callafangers
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Re: Pilpul Activities on the CODOH Forum

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ConfusedJew wrote: Mon May 12, 2025 5:21 am
A small percent of DNA reunions are expected. Unless you make a statistically sound argument, copying even 50 articles, won't prove anything.
I think it is you who needs to first validate your expectation for any particular number threshold of reunions. You have made no such attempt.

Is 51 sufficient? Or is 100? Why 100 instead of 51? You cannot explain any of this, though you'll no doubt run it through ChatGPT. :lol:
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Re: Pilpul Activities on the CODOH Forum

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Archie wrote: Sun May 11, 2025 8:19 pm ...

Pretty much all of the witnesses are from war-crimes trials administered by Germany's conquerors. You ignore that context.
That is not true, as you now go on to admit;
You pretend these testimonies just fell out of the sky. You say they made these confessions against their self-interest but that is far from obvious. Speer went along with the extermination story and he got a relatively lighter sentence. At the Belzec trial, all of the defendants went along with the Holocaust story and they all had their charges dropped except for one guy who got 4 years. Your spin on that will be that it proves that the German government was still pro-Nazi or whatever but the other way to read it is that they were had incentivize to be cooperative.
Not just Belzec, but Chelmno, Sobibor, TII, Majdanek and A-B. The majority of the camp staff were tried in West, East and since unified Germany. Next, were the trials in Poland and Israel, who cannot be considered to be amongst Germany's conquers.

As for being incentivised to cooperate, you have no evidence of that. You ignore that the mass murders were evidenced, which explains why no defendant denied them.

You have created a false context to support your false beliefs.
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HansHill
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Re: Pilpul Activities on the CODOH Forum

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ConfusedJew wrote: Mon May 12, 2025 5:21 am
Why did the Nazis try to destroy the gas chambers and crematoria? How do you write off the discovery of piles of bodies and emaciated prisoners? There is so much evidence out there that you have to really dismantle so many different things and yet I haven't seen any compelling arguments other than a few minor things that are cherry picked.
What do you think these things demonstrate? i) the underground morgues being dynamited and ii) emaciated prisoners / bodies being discovered? I want to know what I'm "writing off" before i write them off.
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Re: Pilpul Activities on the CODOH Forum

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ConfusedJew wrote: Mon May 12, 2025 1:14 am The fact that there was supposedly a population bottleneck within the Ashkenazi gene pool is kind of irrelevant but it would make it easier, not harder to locate missing relatives.
I missed this earlier.

If you're talking about finding closer relatives (which is generally the case for our discussion), it is harder for Ashkenazi Jews due to this bottleneck. The frequency of false positives creates more problems than the benefit of high detectability of shared/bottlenecked DNA (which only really adds value when you're seeking very distant relatives as closer family will always have enough mutual detectability).
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HansHill
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Re: Pilpul Activities on the CODOH Forum

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ConfusedJew wrote: Sun May 11, 2025 10:56 pm I visited Dachau in maybe 2006. What I was told was that it was the first concentration camp, built for political prisoners, and there was a gas chamber there, which I believe I saw, but it was not a death camp.

Checking more facts - there was a gas chamber in Barrack X, built in 1942–43. It definitely existed and had fake shower heads but it was not used for systematic mass exterminations.

There is still some debate among historians about whether it was used on small groups or in limited executions. No definitive records confirm large-scale use.
"not used for systematic mass exterminations"

Glad to hear this concession. Now kindly reflect upon the above what I taught you about people falsely claiming that it was. I'll include more examples here so you know these weren't just "once offs" or accidental whoopsies

Image

Image

Image

And just to remind you, the one from earlier:

Image

Maybe i was mistaken before about you understanding the origin of the fake stories and how they can grow over time, but surely now you must?
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Re: Pilpul Activities on the CODOH Forum

Post by Nessie »

If only there was an established, widespread, credible way of determining truthful, from fake stories. Maybe ask historians, journalists or criminal investigators, what method they use.
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Stubble
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Re: Pilpul Activities on the CODOH Forum

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Psywar set up the gas chamber at Dachau, just like they did in Paris. Look at the 'homicidal gas chamber', then look at the clothing delousing chambers. Note the lack of a way to introduce the pellets. Note the concocted story of 'gas through pipes' (a theme with fake gas chambers mocked up for film by the western allies). Note who was first in the camp (psywar), note the propaganda film 'death mills' and its use of this fake 'homicidal gas chamber' set, shown to Congress.

Now, ask yourself, where was the shower?...

Some food for thought;

https://odysee.com/@louismarschalko:2/D ... ke-news.:4

I can't believe there isn't a thread on this farce at Dachau yet.
were to guess why no t4 personnel were chosen to perform gassing that had experience with gassing, it would be because THERE WERE NONE.
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HansHill
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Re: Pilpul Activities on the CODOH Forum

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Nessie wrote: Mon May 12, 2025 11:28 am If only there was an established, widespread, credible way of determining truthful, from fake stories. Maybe ask historians, journalists or criminal investigators, what method they use.
And disregard the eyewitnesses?
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Nessie
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Re: Pilpul Activities on the CODOH Forum

Post by Nessie »

HansHill wrote: Mon May 12, 2025 12:11 pm
Nessie wrote: Mon May 12, 2025 11:28 am If only there was an established, widespread, credible way of determining truthful, from fake stories. Maybe ask historians, journalists or criminal investigators, what method they use.
And disregard the eyewitnesses?
Why? Do you not think there is an established, widespread, credible way of determining eyewitness truthfulness and accuracy?
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Re: Pilpul Activities on the CODOH Forum

Post by HansHill »

Nessie wrote: Mon May 12, 2025 12:38 pm
HansHill wrote: Mon May 12, 2025 12:11 pm
Nessie wrote: Mon May 12, 2025 11:28 am If only there was an established, widespread, credible way of determining truthful, from fake stories. Maybe ask historians, journalists or criminal investigators, what method they use.
And disregard the eyewitnesses?
Why? Do you not think there is an established, widespread, credible way of determining eyewitness truthfulness and accuracy?
Yes - the gas chamber stories are fake.
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