Contemporaneous WW2 Intelligence and Diplomatic Reports

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Wahrheitssucher
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Re: Contemporaneous WW2 Intelligence and Diplomatic Reports

Post by Wahrheitssucher »

.
The British started the rumours.
They did that in 1940.

When the echoes of THEIR OWN psy-op, atrocity propaganda returned to them in 1942 they RECOGNISED it as such — as the memo by Victor Cavendish-Bentinck demonstrates.

And THAT memo explains — to anyone open-minded and intelligent enough to still be able to think critically and independently — why the British P.W.E advised allied governments not to include those Polish reports in their official reports.
For those still not getting it:
they gave that advice because they were certain that what those Polish reports contained was their own psy-op lie being repeated back to them. Therefore they calculated that the Allied governments would be discredited if/when that was shown to be a lie, should the Axis nations win the war.
Obviously — …er… to anyone thinking this through for themselves — that became less of a problem the more Allied victory looked certain. Why? Because then they could control the narrative pretty much without interference.
Britains rumour factory: Origins of the ‘mass-murder in homicidal gas chambers’ story
Britain’s Political Warfare Executive and its predecessor first deployed stories of homicidal gassing as part of propaganda efforts in two areas unconnected to treatment of Jews. Their objective was to spread dissension and demoralisation among German soldiers and civilians, and among Germany’s allies.

The documentary record showing British propagandists’ promotion of homicidal gassing stories runs from December 1940 (under SO1) to March 1942 (under PWE). In this period the gassing stories did not relate to Jews or Poles. British intelligence official Victor Cavendish-Bentinck discounting later claims of gassings suspected that the Jewish and Polish lobbies had picked up on the rumours that British intelligence had been disseminating and put their own spin on it, in a case of what would later be termed “blowback”, defined as follows by intelligence historian Mark Lowenthal:
Quote:
“The main controversy raised by propaganda activities is that of blowback. The CIA is precluded from undertaking any intelligence activities within the United States. However, a story could be planted in a media outlet overseas that will also be reported in the United States. That is blowback.”

Blowback: The First Reports
The first reports emanate from Polish Jewish underground newspapers in the winter and spring of 1942. The first claim of mass gassing pertaining to Jewish people that received wide circulation was contained in the so-called Bund Report, which was smuggled to the Polish government-in-exile, located in London, in the third week of May 1942.
The report contained two gassing rumours: the first that a special automobile (a gas van) was being used to gas 90 persons at one time. The second rumour pertains to actions in Warsaw: it is said that Jews were being experimented upon with poison gases.

The Bund Report, in turn, appears to be a composite of at least two documents that had come from Warsaw during the spring of 1942. The first of these was an underground communication from the Jewish Labor Bund, in Warsaw, dated March 16, 1942, which described German activities in western Poland as follows:
”In a number of villages the Jews were put to death by gas poisoning. They were herded in a horrible way into hermetically sealed trucks transformed into gas chambers, in groups of fifty, entire families, completely nude…”
This report further alleged that “gas poisoning” was being carried out in Lodz.

The second document that contributed to the Bund Report was a lead article in Der Veker, April 30, 1942, at a time of internecine struggle between Jewish resisters and collaborators in the Warsaw Ghetto.

Two of the members of the Polish National Council-in-exile were Jewish: Zygielbojm and Szwarcbart, and they could be expected to be particularly interested in what was being alleged about their coreligionists several hundred miles away under German military occupation, and in spreading these allegations as a means of getting support for their people. The Bund Report was thus extensively publicised in the media.
On June 24, 1942, the Bund Report was summarised on the BBC.
The following day, the Daily Telegraph ran a major story on the report, with two headlines of note:
“Germans Murder 700,000 in Poland,” and “Travelling Gas Chambers.”
On the 26th, Zygielbojm delivered a broadcast over the BBC, summarizing the Bund Report in Yiddish, and hence obviously directed to the Jewish population in Poland.
Within a week, the BBC had made an arrangement with the Polish National Council giving the BBC priority in the reporting of all future atrocity stories. By July 16, 1942, the allegations of gassing were repeated in the News Review, here with the claim that the Germans were preparing “large gas stations” where the Polish Jewish population would be murdered.

The BBC had already begun to play a major role in recycling these rumours back to their point of origin in Poland. These broadcasts in effect created a feedback loop that repeated and gave authority to Polish rumours, which were then reinjected back into Poland, where they multiplied and burgeoned.
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HansHill
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Re: Contemporaneous WW2 Intelligence and Diplomatic Reports

Post by HansHill »

I am going to suggest, insist even, that The Confused Chosen One reads HH Volume 41

https://holocausthandbooks.com/wp-conte ... tmotam.pdf

It contains all the arguments, counterarguments and rebuttals that this abortion of a thread is failing miserably to recreate. It's subtitle: Auschwitz in British Intercepts, Polish Underground Reports and Postwar Testimonies (1941-1947). On the Genesis and Development of the Gas-Chamber Lore.

"B-b-but I don't like reading" - The Confused Chosen One, probably. Well sorry, that's the barrier to entry to discuss this with any sort of competence.
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Nessie
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Re: Contemporaneous WW2 Intelligence and Diplomatic Reports

Post by Nessie »

Wahrheitssucher wrote: Mon Aug 11, 2025 12:16 pm .
The British started the rumours.
They did that in 1940.
You go on to contradict yourself, by quoting a source that is "unconnected" to Jews.
When the echoes of THEIR OWN psy-op, atrocity propaganda returned to them in 1942 they RECOGNISED it as such — as the memo by Victor Cavendish-Bentinck demonstrates.

And THAT memo explains — to anyone open-minded and intelligent enough to still be able to think critically and independently — why the British P.W.E advised allied governments not to include those Polish reports in their official reports.
For those still not getting it:
they gave that advice because they were certain that what those Polish reports contained was their own psy-op lie being repeated back to them. Therefore they calculated that the Allied governments would be discredited if/when that was shown to be a lie, should the Axis nations win the war.
Obviously — …er… to anyone thinking this through for themselves — that became less of a problem the more Allied victory looked certain. Why? Because then they could control the narrative pretty much without interference.
V C-B advised caution, because he did not believe the reports, which at that time, had no susbstantive evidence. You dodge that by 1945, he was accepting of the reports.
Britains rumour factory: Origins of the ‘mass-murder in homicidal gas chambers’ story
Britain’s Political Warfare Executive and its predecessor first deployed stories of homicidal gassing as part of propaganda efforts in two areas unconnected to treatment of Jews. Their objective was to spread dissension and demoralisation among German soldiers and civilians, and among Germany’s allies.

The documentary record showing British propagandists’ promotion of homicidal gassing stories runs from December 1940 (under SO1) to March 1942 (under PWE). In this period the gassing stories did not relate to Jews or Poles.
There were gassings that were taking place in 1940, under Action T4, which had started in September 1939. Is that what the uncredited source is referring to?
British intelligence official Victor Cavendish-Bentinck discounting later claims of gassings suspected that the Jewish and Polish lobbies had picked up on the rumours that British intelligence had been disseminating and put their own spin on it, in a case of what would later be termed “blowback”, defined as follows by intelligence historian Mark Lowenthal:
Quote:
“The main controversy raised by propaganda activities is that of blowback. The CIA is precluded from undertaking any intelligence activities within the United States. However, a story could be planted in a media outlet overseas that will also be reported in the United States. That is blowback.”

Blowback: The First Reports
The first reports emanate from Polish Jewish underground newspapers in the winter and spring of 1942. The first claim of mass gassing pertaining to Jewish people that received wide circulation was contained in the so-called Bund Report, which was smuggled to the Polish government-in-exile, located in London, in the third week of May 1942.
The report contained two gassing rumours: the first that a special automobile (a gas van) was being used to gas 90 persons at one time. The second rumour pertains to actions in Warsaw: it is said that Jews were being experimented upon with poison gases.

The Bund Report, in turn, appears to be a composite of at least two documents that had come from Warsaw during the spring of 1942. The first of these was an underground communication from the Jewish Labor Bund, in Warsaw, dated March 16, 1942, which described German activities in western Poland as follows:
”In a number of villages the Jews were put to death by gas poisoning. They were herded in a horrible way into hermetically sealed trucks transformed into gas chambers, in groups of fifty, entire families, completely nude…”
This report further alleged that “gas poisoning” was being carried out in Lodz.

The second document that contributed to the Bund Report was a lead article in Der Veker, April 30, 1942, at a time of internecine struggle between Jewish resisters and collaborators in the Warsaw Ghetto.

Two of the members of the Polish National Council-in-exile were Jewish: Zygielbojm and Szwarcbart, and they could be expected to be particularly interested in what was being alleged about their coreligionists several hundred miles away under German military occupation, and in spreading these allegations as a means of getting support for their people. The Bund Report was thus extensively publicised in the media.
On June 24, 1942, the Bund Report was summarised on the BBC.
The following day, the Daily Telegraph ran a major story on the report, with two headlines of note:
“Germans Murder 700,000 in Poland,” and “Travelling Gas Chambers.”
On the 26th, Zygielbojm delivered a broadcast over the BBC, summarizing the Bund Report in Yiddish, and hence obviously directed to the Jewish population in Poland.
Within a week, the BBC had made an arrangement with the Polish National Council giving the BBC priority in the reporting of all future atrocity stories. By July 16, 1942, the allegations of gassing were repeated in the News Review, here with the claim that the Germans were preparing “large gas stations” where the Polish Jewish population would be murdered.

The BBC had already begun to play a major role in recycling these rumours back to their point of origin in Poland. These broadcasts in effect created a feedback loop that repeated and gave authority to Polish rumours, which were then reinjected back into Poland, where they multiplied and burgeoned.

So, the earliest reports do come from the Poles, who you missed out in your earlier chronology. News sources in the UK (and USA) reported some of those early details. As for that giving "authority to Polish rumours" you are contradicted by V C-B, who you admit did not believe them. So much for a coordinated conspiracy, with British Intelligence not agreeing with Polish Intelligence or the news reports.
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Cowboy
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Re: Contemporaneous WW2 Intelligence and Diplomatic Reports

Post by Cowboy »

Wahrheitssucher wrote: Mon Aug 11, 2025 12:16 pm
On June 24, 1942, the Bund Report was summarised on the BBC.
The following day, the Daily Telegraph ran a major story on the report, with two headlines of note:
“Germans Murder 700,000 in Poland,” and “Travelling Gas Chambers.”
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ConfusedJew
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Re: Contemporaneous WW2 Intelligence and Diplomatic Reports

Post by ConfusedJew »

HansHill wrote: Mon Aug 11, 2025 12:42 pm I am going to suggest, insist even, that The Confused Chosen One reads HH Volume 41

https://holocausthandbooks.com/wp-conte ... tmotam.pdf

It contains all the arguments, counterarguments and rebuttals that this abortion of a thread is failing miserably to recreate. It's subtitle: Auschwitz in British Intercepts, Polish Underground Reports and Postwar Testimonies (1941-1947). On the Genesis and Development of the Gas-Chamber Lore.

"B-b-but I don't like reading" - The Confused Chosen One, probably. Well sorry, that's the barrier to entry to discuss this with any sort of competence.
I've skimmed through this and I recognize that you guys have 200 pages of content to counter the exact pieces of evidence which I find very compelling. I can't keep up with that, at least not right now.

I don't understand why you guys have been willing to put so much time and energy into a pursuit that doesn't affect you personally.
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HansHill
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Re: Contemporaneous WW2 Intelligence and Diplomatic Reports

Post by HansHill »

ConfusedJew wrote: Mon Aug 11, 2025 5:58 pm I've skimmed through this and I recognize that you guys have 200 pages of content to counter the exact pieces of evidence which I find very compelling. I can't keep up with that, at least not right now.

I don't understand why you guys have been willing to put so much time and energy into a pursuit that doesn't affect you personally.
This is one of the most reasonable things I have seen you posting, and I appreciate you acknowledging it. I also appreciate not everybody has time to read, digest and learn this.

In return please also acknowledge for example when Archie said on page 1 of this thread that you are simply recycling old talking points without actually knowing them, and to alot of us this is stale, especially when it rings hollow. I'm a relatively junior member here, and others have been involved in this for 10x the time that I have, and more. If its annoying for me, it must be hell for them.

However as I said above, there is a barrier to entry to this. Imagine joining an enthusiast forum on something less contentious like lets say, string theory, and showing up with ChatGPT copy slop in the middle of their forums. That would annoy the regulars very very much.

So i hope this can be a parting shot, if you want to see how Revisionists deal with these "compelling arguments" you stumble across, check out the material we have familiarized ourselves with.

I'll take back calling you a moron, for your most recent post alone ;)
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AreYouSirius
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Re: Contemporaneous WW2 Intelligence and Diplomatic Reports

Post by AreYouSirius »

ConfusedJew wrote: Mon Aug 11, 2025 5:58 pm
HansHill wrote: Mon Aug 11, 2025 12:42 pm I am going to suggest, insist even, that The Confused Chosen One reads HH Volume 41

https://holocausthandbooks.com/wp-conte ... tmotam.pdf

It contains all the arguments, counterarguments and rebuttals that this abortion of a thread is failing miserably to recreate. It's subtitle: Auschwitz in British Intercepts, Polish Underground Reports and Postwar Testimonies (1941-1947). On the Genesis and Development of the Gas-Chamber Lore.

"B-b-but I don't like reading" - The Confused Chosen One, probably. Well sorry, that's the barrier to entry to discuss this with any sort of competence.
I've skimmed through this and I recognize that you guys have 200 pages of content to counter the exact pieces of evidence which I find very compelling. I can't keep up with that, at least not right now.

I don't understand why you guys have been willing to put so much time and energy into a pursuit that doesn't affect you personally.
Why don’t you have time to read 200 pages that directly answer your query? Aren’t you here out of curiosity? Or are you only here for narrative control?

Why does the Holocaust affect you personally, but not the rest of us? You weren’t alive for the Holocaust. You did not experience nor survive the Holocaust.

I have time and energy to invest in Holocaust research because my American tax dollars go to subsidizing Holocaust reparations, Holocaust memorials and museums, and ongoing Holocaust indoctrination, I mean, “education.”
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TlsMS93
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Re: Contemporaneous WW2 Intelligence and Diplomatic Reports

Post by TlsMS93 »

ConfusedJew wrote: Mon Aug 11, 2025 5:58 pm
I don't understand why you guys have been willing to put so much time and energy into a pursuit that doesn't affect you personally.
It doesn't really affect me because I'm not a German who accepts all kinds of harassment and apologizes for even existing because of it. But it ends up affecting many innocent people because it's used by scoundrels and sick minds like Israeli prime ministers. One even once declared that the world could not judge his actions against the Palestinians because they were exterminated in the Holocaust.
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HansHill
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Re: Contemporaneous WW2 Intelligence and Diplomatic Reports

Post by HansHill »

It's also the most important event in history. Or at least it would be if... ya know.
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ConfusedJew
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Re: Contemporaneous WW2 Intelligence and Diplomatic Reports

Post by ConfusedJew »

HansHill wrote: Mon Aug 11, 2025 7:04 pm
This is one of the most reasonable things I have seen you posting, and I appreciate you acknowledging it. I also appreciate not everybody has time to read, digest and learn this.

In return please also acknowledge for example when Archie said on page 1 of this thread that you are simply recycling old talking points without actually knowing them, and to alot of us this is stale, especially when it rings hollow. I'm a relatively junior member here, and others have been involved in this for 10x the time that I have, and more. If it's annoying for me, it must be hell for them.
These aren't "talking points". I am doing historical research and presenting you with facts. The fact that I don't have an interest in going through 200 pages on why you think those early points were not credible does not mean that I am doubting my position, I am just not interested in putting the effort into doing that right now. You guys are definitely extremely prepared.

We are at an impasse on this front but as I have said before, I am curious to see where and how we disagree exactly. For example, I think it is very obvious how the Nazis used the euphemism "special treatment" but you don't interpret it that way. I could do a really deep investigation of that to look at all the contexts in which it was used but I don't feel inclined to do that. Similarly, I think all of these reports are very credible and see no reason to believe that they were being used as false propaganda. Propaganda sometimes can be completely true as well. I just see that you have prepared 200 pages on something that I don't really doubt at all. Kind of like how a Flat Earther might have written many textbooks on why the Earth is flat. I might want to talk to these people to see how and why they think the way that they do, but I don't want to read through their textbooks.
However as I said above, there is a barrier to entry to this. Imagine joining an enthusiast forum on something less contentious like let's say, string theory, and showing up with ChatGPT copy slop in the middle of their forums. That would annoy the regulars very very much.
I'm not doing this to annoy anybody, truly I am here in good faith. I just see this as similar to a Flat Earth message board but one specifically that denies the horrible treatment of my relatives.
So i hope this can be a parting shot, if you want to see how Revisionists deal with these "compelling arguments" you stumble across, check out the material we have familiarized ourselves with.

I'll take back calling you a moron, for your most recent post alone ;)
I still want to get to the bottom of the cyanide residues but at this point, I think I understand decently how you guys think. I am really surprised at how much work you've put into all of this. That was unexpected to me. I don't really agree with any of the conclusions, but it's still interesting.
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TlsMS93
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Re: Contemporaneous WW2 Intelligence and Diplomatic Reports

Post by TlsMS93 »

ConfusedJew wrote: Mon Aug 11, 2025 9:32 pm
I might want to talk to these people to see how and why they think the way that they do, but I don't want to read through their textbooks.
Man, how ridiculous! You want to understand how certain people think the way they do, yet at the same time you refuse to absorb the literature that shapes their worldview. It's unbelievable. This only reinforces your image as a spy here, you don't want to refute the issue at its core, you behave like a believer who sees everything outside their box as heresy. This only reinforces that you're trying to harvest content here to feed Hasbara's database.
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ConfusedJew
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Re: Contemporaneous WW2 Intelligence and Diplomatic Reports

Post by ConfusedJew »

TlsMS93 wrote: Mon Aug 11, 2025 10:43 pm
ConfusedJew wrote: Mon Aug 11, 2025 9:32 pm
I might want to talk to these people to see how and why they think the way that they do, but I don't want to read through their textbooks.
Man, how ridiculous! You want to understand how certain people think the way they do, yet at the same time you refuse to absorb the literature that shapes their worldview. It's unbelievable. This only reinforces your image as a spy here, you don't want to refute the issue at its core, you behave like a believer who sees everything outside their box as heresy. This only reinforces that you're trying to harvest content here to feed Hasbara's database.
Who would I be spying on? Why would I even need to spy when this is a public forum?

I've spent a lot of time and energy seeking to understand your worldview but I don't have infinite time. If I saw everything outside the box as heresy, I wouldn't be on here talking to people like you.
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TlsMS93
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Re: Contemporaneous WW2 Intelligence and Diplomatic Reports

Post by TlsMS93 »

ConfusedJew wrote: Mon Aug 11, 2025 11:27 pm
Who would I be spying on? Why would I even need to spy when this is a public forum?

I've spent a lot of time and energy seeking to understand your worldview but I don't have infinite time. If I saw everything outside the box as heresy, I wouldn't be on here talking to people like you.
But it depends on exterminationist interaction to move forward. In other words, you come here to explore issues we wouldn't otherwise address because they're topics we've settled on. The number of far-right experts mapping forums and even creating people who claim to simply want to understand their worldview for Holocaust education purposes isn't written in stone.

I'll never try to understand why someone thinks the way they do just by talking to them. I'll delve into what they've absorbed to think the way they do. No one is born and grows up thinking something is just that; they absorbed it from their environment and encoded it as a relevant standard. But do you prefer to approach people as if you were a trained psychologist?
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ConfusedJew
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Re: Contemporaneous WW2 Intelligence and Diplomatic Reports

Post by ConfusedJew »

It saves a lot of time to just speak to people to understand them and you'd learn a lot more in some ways than if you just read the books that they read.
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AreYouSirius
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Re: Contemporaneous WW2 Intelligence and Diplomatic Reports

Post by AreYouSirius »

ConfusedJew wrote: Tue Aug 12, 2025 12:32 am It saves a lot of time to just speak to people to understand them and you'd learn a lot more in some ways than if you just read the books that they read.
Jesus, you can’t even click CTRL+F in the PDF to shortcut to the section(s) you might find useful?
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