Numar Patru wrote: ↑Tue Nov 19, 2024 2:36 am
I’ve spent the last hour or so reading Nick Terry’s long posts about the available evidence. You’re all wet in your allegations about lack of evidence.
Finding six Jews who survived Belzec should be a cake walk if half of what you allege is true. That you won’t take the challenge shows how weak your case is.
This is sheer nonsense. You elevate your figure of "six Jews". Why not five-thousand? It doesn't matter what number you put up as a benchmark. Your assumption that revisionists should be able to meet this standard or else 'gas chambers' is laughable, for reasons already outlined.
Numar Patru wrote:But I’m willing to make my challenge even easier: You don’t need to locate six Jews who were sent to Belzec who survived the war. Just find me six sent to Belzec who are known to have died somewhere else. Piece of cake if your claims have any weight.
Once again, your challenge (and your perceived value thereof) is based on your own misunderstandings.
Numar Patru wrote:Let me remind you of something. Among the people who would have been victimized by false claims of Jewish extermination would have been Jewish survivors themselves, many of whom would have believed their loved ones were dead. Do you think they just gave up looking?
I agree with you that Jews are also victimized by false 'Holocaust' claims. But yes, they most certainly did give up looking, in most cases. Tracing services were virtually non-existent (and essentially useless) for the first decade or so post-war. Millions of displaced people, obliterated infrastructure, problems with bureaucracy and communication channels, poor coordination, etc., made the odds of finding anyone almost impossible, regardless of survival. Moreover, it is clear that Jews postwar were mainly interested in moving on (hence few returns to their hometowns, even among acknowledged 'survivors') rather than seeking to reconnect with their former lives and family members. This was true even between parents and children:
During the war, Jewish children in hiding had to learn to blend in. They learned new languages, and forgot their mother tongues. Some did not know that they had ever been Jewish, and many took up their wartime host families’ Christianity. When exhausted parents or relatives managed to track these children down at the war’s end, the children were rarely able to simply revert to their previous selves: too much time had passed.
They had no common language with which to speak to their parents or relatives. And few were enthusiastic about returning to their Jewish identities—after all, many had figured out that it was this very identity that had put them in danger during the war years.
The second reason was time. As is the case for separated children in the present, young child Holocaust survivors had spent significant portions of their short lives away from their birth parents. They often had little memory of their original families.
The more time that had passed, the more likely it was that survivor children could not remember their parents or relatives. Many children, in these circumstances, wanted desperately to stay with the host families who had housed them during the war, rather than be returned to utter strangers. Some felt angry at parents who they saw as having abandoned them, even if they were old enough to understand objectively that their parents had had no choice.
The third reason was psychological trauma. Whether they had survived in hiding, in internment, or in neutral territory, Jewish children in Europe after the war had lived through harrowing experiences that had changed them. Their parents had had their own terrifying experiences: surviving in hiding or by passing as “Aryan,” interned in labour or concentration camps, parents were often physically and psychologically exhausted by the war’s end.
The shared experience of trauma pushed parents and children apart, because each side found it unbearable to listen to, or even to think about, what the other had been through.
https://yalebooks.yale.edu/2020/11/11/s ... survivors/
Jews moved to some 60+ different countries after the war, frequently changing their names, converting to Christianity, and other means of assimilation. Relatives were increasingly forgotten or assumed dead, especially as 'Holocaust' propaganda first developed and then ramped up over the years.
Numar Patru wrote:I can tell you that, during the first couple of decades of Israel’s existence, newspapers routinely listed classified ads of people declaring that they were indeed alive and seeking friends and relatives. Reunions of family members separated during the war were relatively common.
You don’t seem very knowledgeable about basic facts or how history works. Perhaps someone more adept at these things will accept my challenge.
Nobody denies Jews wanted to find their relatives, to some degree. But the scale to which this was possible (or to which they thought it possible) is another matter.
You don't seem to understand how logic and hierarchies of evidence work. "How history works" is not complex. In fact, the 'workings' of historiography is one of the simplest (most accessible) methodologies in all fields of academia. At its core, defining history is necessarily about (and subordinate to) sound logic and interpretation of evidence. Thus,
it is bound by the same rules of logic and valuation of evidence as any other field which subordinates to the same.
This means that if the corpses are not underneath Treblinka, the witnesses are lying. It means that if the fuel is not evidenced or cannot have been present, the cremations (and by extension, the murders) did not happen.
No amount of "how we do history" can change this.
