Contemporaneous WW2 Intelligence and Diplomatic Reports

[ConfusedJew]

You are a moron, plain and simple. You are arguing against yourself yet again. What you are effectively arguing for is that:

The Jews present in the camps, available for witness testimony, were categorically not exposed to rumour and hearsay prior to entering a camp or while being transited to a camp

This is so insanely moronic that I am losing brain cells even thinking about it. Wetzelrad has already shown that rumours and hearsay had reached total saturation outside the camps, by reaching even the attention of Anne Frank, a teenage girl.

Aside from being insanely moronic which is on point for you, it is utterly unfalsifiable. How do you happen to demonstrate that X-Jew or Y-Jew was categorically shielded from rumour and hearsay prior to entering a camp, during wartime? This, despite, numourous influential Jews saying the exact opposite, ie Samuel Razjman stating that his own stories, were based on those of another person who he himself had heard as rumour.

You won't read this, and you will undoubtedly produce some utter mindless drivel in response, so I will post this anyway for the attention of interested readers - so that those actually invested in this topic will see how utterly braindead your position is:

https://codoh.com/library/document/brit ... r-factory/

You are welcome to insult me but it just suggests that the facts and reality aren't on your side.

What you are saying is truly absurd. Without any evidence, you can try use that fallacy about any wartime report. That person was possibly influenced by rumors so you can't believe anything that they say. I can guarantee you don't use that style of thinking in your personal life or you'd probably be dead. Do you automatically reject anything that somebody tells you if you haven't experienced it personally or part of what they are telling you is second hand?

Also, was the Riegener Telegram just another rumor that a German industrialist heard from senior Nazi leadership? Were the Nazis spreading these "rumors" too?

I'm obviously quite the opposite of a moron so it's generally embarrassing when people try to overtly say that I'm stupid.

[ConfusedJew]

Vrba and Wetzler observed the arrival of Jewish transports, the systematic “selection” process, where many were sent to the gas chambers immediately upon arrival), and the disappearance of large numbers of people.

What were the selections processes for? Where did those people go? Why were the younger healthier men and women kept to do slave labor in the camp while the older and less healthy guests were separated and mysteriously sent off to the showers rooms to never return?

I honestly don't believe that you guys actually believe what you are telling me. At the very least, you must have a tremendous amount of internal conflict because there's no way you process information like this.

But nonetheless, I will still engage you in good faith with logic, facts, and arguments to peel away the layers of your fallacies just because I am curious how people can say and potentially believe such crazy shit.

Vrba and Wetzler's reports both involved direct personal experience but obviously nobody who went into the gas chambers survived other than the Sonderkommandos so the details about the gas chambers are going to be second hand. The only people who would possibly have first hand knowledge of that would be the Nazis or Sonderkommando.

It's very foolish to want evidence that couldn't possibly exist or was destroyed, lost, never recorded etc.

[Wahrheitssucher]

Vrba and Wetzler observed the arrival of Jewish transports, the systematic “selection” process, [unevidenced assertion snipped], and the disappearance of large numbers of people.

Vrba is a discredited witness.
Only someone unfamiliar with the facts or someone in denial of these facts would refer to him and his testimony favourably.

See here for a LONG list of his numerous, demonstrably false statements: https://holocaustencyclopedia.com/witne ... udolf/903/

Or don’t read that and remain in denial.

The choice is a simple one:
a.) read the details and become familiar with the actual evidence with an open mind,
b.) refuse to acquaint oneself with ANY info if it refutes the legally-protected and compulsory belief-system.

What were the selections processes for?

To ascertain who was arriving. OBVIOUSLY.
To ascertain what skills they had and allocate jobs or transport to other suitable labour camps.
To see who was sick and needed quarantine or be allocated MEDICAL treatment.

Where did those people go?

Seriously?
Viktor Frankl was in Auschwitz for a few days. He was not tatooed with a number. He was “selected” and then went somewhere that was unknown to those who remained.
Think!! Don’t just uncritically and gullibly believe.
Presumably it was at selection that it was discovered he had medical qualifications.

He wrote that after three days in Auschwitz he was allocated to leave as a medical assistant on a transport of ill inmates that were taken to Kaufering near Augsburg for treatment and recuperation.
Confused jew is a person in denial of facts like this.

Why were the younger healthier men and women kept to do slave labour in the camp

Sheesh! The weak level of enquiry has reached new lows.

…while the older and less healthy guests were separated and mysteriously sent off to the showers rooms

Everyone was sent off to shower rooms TO BE SHOWERED and cleaned. EVERYONE!!!
They also had their heads shaved.
They also received clean clothes.
CJ isn’t familiar with the actual facts but instead appears to have an emotionalised understanding based on dramatised films and TV shows.
Maintaining strict Hygiene for incoming people was essential to combat disease and prevent epidemics.

[1.] I honestly don't [snip]…
[2.] At the very least, you must have a tremendous amount of internal conflict because there's no way you process information like this.

1. CJ has not shown that they ever engaged here ”honestly”.
2. The idea that critically analysing the ’holocaust’ narrative is only possible if someone has “internal conflict” is an appeal to emotion.

… nonetheless, I will still engage you in good faith with logic, facts, and arguments

CJ has not done any of that in three months.

[Wahrheitssucher]

You are a moron, plain and simple. You are arguing against yourself yet again…

You won't read this, and you will undoubtedly produce some utter mindless drivel in response, so I will post this anyway for the attention of interested readers — so that those actually invested in this topic will see how utterly braindead your position is:

https://codoh.com/library/document/brit ... r-factory/

…the facts and reality aren't on your side.

CJ doesn’t produce any facts in support of this contention.

What you are saying is truly absurd.

CJ doesn’t explain why.

Without any evidence, you can try use that fallacy about any wartime report.

A link to detailed evidence was just provided (and apparently ignored). So this is a particularly unintelligent response.

I'm obviously quite the opposite of a moron so it's generally embarrassing when people try to overtly say that I'm stupid.

The opposite of a moron is a genius.
I haven’t seen any evidence that CJ is “obviously” a genius.
The Dunning-kruger syndrome is strong in this one.

[ConfusedJew]

OK Vrba was not discredited. That website that you claim shows this is not a credible or balanced source.

You brought up Viktor Frankl who was not at all relevant to this discussion and completely ignored the other examples that I mentioned. I'm not going to take the bait and go down another irrelevant rabbit hole but I'm just saying that he did not provide an early contemporaneous report and his story does not refute any of them either.

Also, for whatever reason you deny being a HOLOCAUST DENIER but if you are trying to say that people who were sent to the showers during selections just received clean clothes, that very clearly makes you a HOLOCAUST DENIER. I'm not sure why you don't just own that.

[Wahrheitssucher]

OK Vrba was not discredited. That website that you claim shows this is not a credible or balanced source.

Why do you claim it is not credible or balanced? Based on what criteria?
There is a term for someone who disregards facts and evidence because it refutes their belief system.
Do you know what that term is?

You brought up Viktor Frankl who was not at all relevant to this discussion

I gave the testimony of ‘Auschwitz survivor’ Frankl as it was relevant to and answered one of your questions.
You are in denial.

…I'm just saying that he did not provide an early contemporaneous report and his story does not refute any of them either.

This is further denial by you.

for whatever reason you deny being a HOLOCAUST DENIER

The reason is simple: because I do not deny the well-attested and provable facts of the jewish experience in Europe during WW2 widely called since the mid-60s ‘the holocaust’. Only someone in denial of reality would dispute this fact. I have repeatedly explained this to you and others. And no-one who casts doubt on this has ever been able to identify any aspect of the holocaust narrative that I am allegedly ‘denying’.

…if you are trying to say that people who were sent to the showers during selections just received clean clothes, that very clearly makes you a HOLOCAUST DENIER. I'm not sure why you don't just own that.

The reality is this is psychological projection on your part. And it is based on wilful ignorance. Face it: you are in denial of any and all facts that refute your cherished beliefs, which are based on ignorance.

Question:
Do you DENY that people at camps were selected for work assignments then showered, shaved and given clean clothes?
Yes or no?

[Nessie]

...

The question is how do you try to objectively evaluate and weigh each piece of evidence, in part and together with other independent sources?

So-called revisionists, with their lack of relevant training and expertise, along with their bias and inability to think logically, cannot objectively evaluate the evidence.

Even when sources of information are not entirely independent, does having more people confirm the say recollection add to the credibility?

Yes, especially when the accused admits to the accusations made by the accuser. That people, from multiple different locations, from different countries, who would not normally cooperate, claim the same thing, is strong corroborating evidence.

So-called revisionists like to pitch themselves as defence lawyers for the Nazis, but they ignore that their SS death camp staff clients admit the crime they are accused of, happened. They accuse their own clients of lying!

Collective memory is certainly not perfect, but I do think that if tens of thousands of people report similar big facts, it increases the chance that it is true.

So-called revisionist make no effort to relate the memories of the SS camp staff and Jewish prisoners, to studies of memory and recollection. They ignore that all the witnesses agree, the camps were used for mass murder. That they vary in the details, is easily explainable, by determining if the testimony is hearsay and from known issues over estimations and memory.

I'll be generous and help them make their case for them, but in social psychology there is a phenomenon that has been documented called the Mandela Effect which describes how specific false memories can sometimes be shared by a large group of people. They'd have to argue that the Mandela effect applies to the Holocaust, and I'm prepared to do that analysis, but I doubt that it will in any compelling way.

Then remind them they cannot cherry-pick one study of witnesses and they should take into account all the studies.

They like to use the witchcraft trials as an analogy. But witchcraft is proven to false, broom sticks are proven to not fly. Germans building gas chambers, is not a physical impossibility and it is evidenced to have happened.

These people keep accusing me of being bad faith and lazy and dishonest but I'm literally trying to help them make their arguments stronger since I don't find any of their arguments compelling. But I guess I'm so confident that they are wrong, that I am just not threatened at all by trying to show them how impossible it is that the Holocaust could be either an intentional hoax unintentional false memory.

Indeed, the scale of the hoax they allege is off the scale implausible. It requires far too many people to successfully pull off.

[Nessie]

intentional hoax

The Poles, and to a far greater ex-
tent the Jews, tend to exaggerate German atroci-
ties in order to stoke us up. They seem to have
succeeded

many stories to this effect, and we have played them up
in PWE rumours without believing that they had
any foundation

Victor Cavendish-Bentinck, the Chairman of
the Allied Joint Intelligence Committee

LOL

That was in 1943. By 1945, Cavendich-Bentick was being made the UK's Ambassador to Poland, so he had clearly changed his mind about those early reports!

[Nessie]

...

In fact the opposite has to be assumed since we know that civilians on both sides were being propagandized with stories of gassings. See for example Anne Frank's diary entry of October 9th, 1942 which reads literally, "The British radio speaks of their being gassed." Or see the JIC suggested rumors of October and November 1941 which described Germans gassing their own wounded on trains. Clearly this propaganda was successfully making it out to the population of Europe, such that even Cavendish-Bentinck and his staff doubted the veracity of the come-backs, so it's laughable to claim that the reports you list existed independent from that.

That British intelligence and potentially many Jews, were dubious of the gassing claims in 1942, because of the lack of evidence at that time, suggests a degree of independence on their part. They would not accept mere rumour, they wanted evidence. By 1945, they had that evidence.

[HansHill]

That was in 1943. By 1945, Cavendich-Bentick was being made the UK's Ambassador to Poland, so he had clearly changed his mind about those early reports!

>After the war the British doubled down on its own wartime propaganda

Yes.

[Nessie]

That was in 1943. By 1945, Cavendich-Bentick was being made the UK's Ambassador to Poland, so he had clearly changed his mind about those early reports!

>After the war the British doubled down on its own wartime propaganda

Yes.

It was not British propaganda, it was Polish, which the British did not believe, until there was evidence to prove much of it was correct.

The 1943 Cavendish-Bentick report on the Polish intelligence reports, is not the gotcha, so-called revisionists think it is. It proves that it was the Poles, who drove the early narrative, not the Jews, or Soviets. But you cannot even bring yourself to believe that the Poles fooled the world with a Holocaust hoax, so you have to ignore their role.

That the British, as well as others, were not inclined to believe those Polish reports, proves that there was no coordination of effort, to perpetrate such a hoax. The British only accepted that mass murder was happening, once there was evidence. Rumour and the reports, such as the 1944 Slovakian report about murder inside A-B, had not been enough. That proves there was independent action, as the British waited until evidence, independent of them, was sufficient to prove mass killings.

X is full of tweets quoting Cavendish-Bentick, but embarrassingly for them, and you, they all fail to notice that he then became the ambassador to Poland. That proves how so-called revisionists cherry-pick evidence, without going into context or chronology.

The hoax alleged by so-called revisionist, was impossible to pull off during the war.

[Wahrheitssucher]

.
MASS-GASSING ATROCITY PROPAGANDA TIMELINE
—————————————————————————————————————————————————
1942 — The British Broadcasting Corporation [BBC] airs atrocity propaganda falsely alleging mass-gassings in Poland as part of PWE psychological warfare.

1942 October 9th— Anne Frank writes in her diary that she has heard from the BBC that jews/poles are being gassed to death.
“Our many Jewish friends and acquaintances are being taken away in droves. The Gestapo is treating them very roughly and transporting them in cattle cars to Westerbork, the big camp in Drenthe to which they’re sending all the Jews… If it’s that bad in Holland, what must it be like in those faraway and uncivilized places where the Germans are sending them? We assume that most of them are being murdered. The English radio says they’re being gassed.”

1943 Aug 27th — Victor Cavendish-Bentinck writes: “As regards putting Poles to death in gas chambers, I do not believe that there is any evidence that this has been done, There have been many stories to this effect, and we have played them up, in P.W.E. [Psychological Warfare Executive] rumours without believing that they had any foundation.”

1944 April — Rudolf Vrba and Alfréd Wetzler, two Slovak Jews who escaped from Auschwitz on 10 April 1944, wrote their report by hand (or dictated it) in Slovak, between 25 and 27 April, in Žilina, Slovakia. The first full English translation of the report was published in November 1944 by the United States War Refugee Board.

2025 August — Gullible fools; faithful believers who regard the mass-gassing narrative like holy lore; deliberate deceivers; and dimwits who have psychological problems, erroneously and ludicrously insist that British mass-gassing atrocity propaganda followed Polish-Jewish reports.

[Nessie]

.
MASS-GASSING ATROCITY PROPAGANDA TIMELINE
———————————————————————————————————————————————
1942 — The British Broadcasting Corporation [BBC] airs atrocity propaganda about mass-gassings in Poland.

Why have you missed out the source of the BBC's broadcast?

1942 October 9th— Anne Frank writes in her diary that she has heard from the BBC that jews/poles are being gassed to death.
“Our many Jewish friends and acquaintances are being taken away in droves. The Gestapo is treating them very roughly and transporting them in cattle cars to Westerbork, the big camp in Drenthe to which they’re sending all the Jews… If it’s that bad in Holland, what must it be like in those faraway and uncivilized places where the Germans are sending them? We assume that most of them are being murdered. The English radio says they’re being gassed.”

1943 Aug 27th — Victor Cavendish-Bentinck writes: “As regards putting Poles to death in gas chambers, I do not believe that there is any evidence that this has been done, There have been many stories to this effect, and we have played them up, in P.W.E. [Psychological Warfare Executive] rumours without believing that they had any foundation.”

1944 April — Rudolf Vrba and Alfréd Wetzler, two Slovak Jews who escaped from Auschwitz on 10 April 1944, wrote their report by hand (or dictated it) in Slovak, between 25 and 27 April, in Žilina, Slovakia. The first full English translation of the report was published in November 1944 by the United States War Refugee Board.

2025 August — Gullible fools; faithful believers who regard the mass-gassing narrative like holy lore; deliberate deceivers; and dimwits who have psychological problems, erroneously and ludicrously insist that British mass-gassing atrocity propaganda followed Polish-Jewish reports.

Why have you missed out the reports from Polish sources from your timeline?

[Nessie]

3rd May 1941;

https://www.auschwitz.org/en/history/in ... t-in-exile

"...the Polish government used a diplomatic note to inform Allied and neutral governments about arrests and mass executions in Poland, deportation to Auschwitz and other camps, and the conditions there. The note also discussed atrocities committed against Jews in the first 15 months of the occupation."

25th June 1942, Daily Telegraph article, based on Polish intelligence reports, writes;

https://www.theguardian.com/media/green ... unheralded

"Germans murder 700,000 Jews in Poland", "an average 1,000 Jews were gassed daily".

26th June 1942, BBC transmission on gassings, also taken from Polish sources;

https://www.jhi.pl/en/articles/june-26- ... -jews,5812

[Nessie]

Intelligence and report of mass murders, which started with mass shootings, began in 1941.

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/wh ... -holocaust

"Information regarding mass murders of Jews began to reach the free world soon after these actions began in the Soviet Union in late June 1941, and the volume of such reports increased with time. The early sources of information include German police reports intercepted by British intelligence; local eyewitnesses and escaped Jews reporting to the underground, Soviet, or neutral sources; and Hungarian soldiers on home leave, whose observations were reported by neutral sources."

The earliest reference to the use of gas was February 1942;

"...the first media reference to the murder of Jews appeared in the Polish Home Army publication Biuletyn Informacyjny on February 19, 1942: “Several towns and villages report intensified action against the Jews by the occupiers [i.e., the Germans]. In Jadów bei Radzym (sic, Radzyn), in Izbica, Wartbrücken, Dombie, Zagórów, Turek und Tonningen, the mass murder of the Jews has begun. The people are allegedly taken away to work – and then shot or poisoned by gas.”